I took a 500-mile trip in an EV — but range anxiety was the least of my problems

rakeshcbhardwaj

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Sep 15, 2017
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Misleading title. You didn't take an EV for a 500 mile journey. You took an EV which you already knew had the the worst range on the market and one with the least supported charging port for a 500 mile trip. Clearly someone with an agenda.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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Aug 28, 2022
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I still think it's a brave act or brazen assault on other people's time to take an EV for a long road trip. The recharge time alone vs. pumping gas is the reason I still use a family minivan for road trips and using the Tesla for daily commutes
Unless you happen to live in a place where Tesla superchargers are rare, I'd encourage you to give your Tesla a try for a road trip. This summer I did a 1500 mile road trip and it was perfectly ok. Recharge time at most stops was around 15 minutes, enough time for the family and I to use the restrooms, get a snack, let the dog roam for a bit. Really not at a "brazen assault on other people's time" - that's quite an extreme statement I hadn't heard before.

Although if you are one of those "road trip warriors" who is racing against an imaginary clock (maybe you are based on the above statement), trying to get there as quickly as possible, only stops when their car is on the last drop of fuel, and you only stop for the 5 minutes required to fill the tank and become enraged when any extra minute is wasted on the needs of human biology...then, no, an EV is not a good choice for road trip. 🙃
 

USAFRet

Illustrious
Moderator
Although if you are one of those "road trip warriors" who is racing against an imaginary clock (maybe you are based on the above statement), trying to get there as quickly as possible, only stops when their car is on the last drop of fuel, and you only stop for the 5 minutes required to fill the tank and become enraged when any extra minute is wasted on the needs of human biology...then, no, an EV is not a good choice for road trip.
Getting to your destination quickly is not necessarily a bad thing, to be disparaged as " "road trip warriors" who is racing against an imaginary clock "

Next month, we will be making a 550 mile (each way) trip.
The same trip we've done 5 times in the last 3 years, to see family.
Once moving, I just want to get there.

Interstate almost the whole way, there is nothing new or interesting to see.
Currently, we stop once for gas/food/pee. 30 minutes.

2 recharge stops at an hour or two each turns a long one day journey into an overnight.
I do NOT want to sit around for a couple of hours while the car fills it battery tank.

I am absolutely NOT against EV's. Considering getting one for my daily commute vehicle.

But they are not currently good for ALL trips.

Discussion with my sister in law the last time we were there....said sis is hardcore against EVs.
"They're not good for road trips!!"
'OK, fine, you're mostly right. But you know what else you don't see in your driveway right now? My Mini Cooper. That is Also not good for long road trips. Fun car, but too loud and bouncy.
Applicable vehicle for the particular use case.'

The embyronic EV ecosystem will evolve. They WILL become good for long trips. But they're not there yet.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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2 recharge stops at an hour or two each turns a long one day journey into an overnight.
I do NOT want to sit around for a couple of hours while the car fills it battery tank.
Given that you don't yet have an EV, I assume the above statement is because you don't know any better yet, but what you're describing isn't the way modern EVs work and haven't for years. 🙃

You're describing road tripping in a Nissan Leaf using L2 chargers, which I agree isn't for most people. I wouldn't road trip anywhere if charging took hours. L3 charging makes road trips possible (and fun believe it or not).

In my 2019 Model 3 SR+ I get 220 miles of range (the 2022 model has 267 miles of range). To drive 550 miles in my Model 3, I'd drive about 180 miles or so, stop at a Tesla supercharger and charge for 15 minutes and get around 150 miles back of range, then drive another 180 miles and repeat. So I'd say 30 minutes total charge time and two stops to get 550 miles. I'd personally likely stop three times at 10 minutes each, but that's just my preference.

Charging at 105kW, my car will gain 467 miles back in range over the course of an hour of charging. NO ONE charges for an hour at a supercharger - the batteries aren't big enough, and the car software (and app) tells you exactly how long you need to charge. The battery charges very rapidly when it's below 60%, so often you'll need to charge for less than 15 minutes.

A 2022 Model 3 could probably do this trip with one 15 minute charge, thus saving you 15 minutes of time compared to your 30 minute stop. 😉 Teslas can charge around 15 miles per minute of charging if connected to a good L3 charger.

I'll add one other point: I personally found doing the same 1500 mile road trip in my GMC Acadia way more stressful than in my Model 3. Why? In my Tesla, autopilot on the highways means the car will drive itself for long stretches. Less mental load for me. The cruise control is also very smart; it works all the way down to a dead stop and keeps you moving in traffic. Passing other vehicles in my M3 is very easy compared to a gas car - it's like a rocket ship, it just zooms past other cars when you need to pass.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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Misleading title. You didn't take an EV for a 500 mile journey. You took an EV which you already knew had the the worst range on the market and one with the least supported charging port for a 500 mile trip.
But it's the EV he had; it's not like he could conjure up a Tesla to drive. It's a real-world story that shows how limited older EVs are. I thought he did a good job of pointing out the inherent limitations of his vehicle for road tripping. And the fact that sometimes chargers don't work when you get there is a real problem that needs continual pressure to solve.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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It's totally irrelevant. The entire idea of a battery powered EV is ludicrous. The are NOT earth friendly and they are NOT user friendly. You are being more earth friendly commuting in a 3/4 ton diesel truck all by yourself. These batteries are NASTY to make and NASTY to dispose of. The ONLY reason that they are being forced onto everyone is that fact that so many people have bought into the dimwitted ideal that they are going to "save the planet" from a faux disaster.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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Given that you don't yet have an EV, I assume the above statement is because you don't know any better yet, but what you're describing isn't the way modern EVs work and haven't for years. 🙃

You're describing road tripping in a Nissan Leaf using L2 chargers, which I agree isn't for most people. I wouldn't road trip anywhere if charging took hours. L3 charging makes road trips possible (and fun believe it or not).

In my 2019 Model 3 SR+ I get 220 miles of range (the 2022 model has 267 miles of range). To drive 550 miles in my Model 3, I'd drive about 180 miles or so, stop at a Tesla supercharger and charge for 15 minutes and get around 150 miles back of range, then drive another 180 miles and repeat. So I'd say 30 minutes total charge time and two stops to get 550 miles. I'd personally likely stop three times at 10 minutes each, but that's just my preference.

Charging at 105kW, my car will gain 467 miles back in range over the course of an hour of charging. NO ONE charges for an hour at a supercharger - the batteries aren't big enough, and the car software (and app) tells you exactly how long you need to charge. The battery charges very rapidly when it's below 60%, so often you'll need to charge for less than 15 minutes.

A 2022 Model 3 could probably do this trip with one 15 minute charge, thus saving you 15 minutes of time compared to your 30 minute stop. 😉 Teslas can charge around 15 miles per minute of charging if connected to a good L3 charger.

I'll add one other point: I personally found doing the same 1500 mile road trip in my GMC Acadia way more stressful than in my Model 3. Why? In my Tesla, autopilot on the highways means the car will drive itself for long stretches. Less mental load for me. The cruise control is also very smart; it works all the way down to a dead stop and keeps you moving in traffic. Passing other vehicles in my M3 is very easy compared to a gas car - it's like a rocket ship, it just zooms past other cars when you need to pass.
And your 2019 Model 3 SR+ has made more pollution during it manufacturing than a gas car ever made, from manufacturing through maintenance and burning gas for 10 years and 100,000 miles. And it will make nearly as much when you have to replace that nasty battery that is in it. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's just the inconvenient fact.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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It's totally irrelevant. The entire idea of a battery powered EV is ludicrous. The are NOT earth friendly and they are NOT user friendly. You are being more earth friendly commuting in a 3/4 ton diesel truck all by yourself. These batteries are NASTY to make and NASTY to dispose of. The ONLY reason that they are being forced onto everyone is that fact that so many people have bought into the dimwitted ideal that they are going to "save the planet" from a faux disaster.
Wow you have a lot of myths and misinformation in that post. Over the lifetime of an EV it uses almost an order of magnitude less resources and CO2. Although CO2 isn't a pollutant, it's plant food, they take the carbon and release oxygen.

As far as batteries they are produced very environment friendly. Old batteries are recycled recovering just north of 97% of the materials. You see batteries are basically high grade ore. It's simpler, easier and way less expensive to recycle batteries that to mine, refine and process the raw materials. Tesla batteries last between 500,000 and 2 million miles depending on the chemistry. Once it's capacity goes below 70% they are considered end of life. The battery pack still functions just a a reduced range. If that pack were replaced the old pack would get repurposed for use in a stationary battery pack as size, weight and capacity don't matter. After that or if the pack is damaged they get recycled.

In about 10 years there will little need for mining as there will be enough old batteries to recycle into new ones.

It's alright, you can still hate EVs. 😁 Just stop repeating BS
 
Aug 28, 2022
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I still think it's a brave act or brazen assault on other people's time to take an EV for a long road trip. The recharge time alone vs. pumping gas is the reason I still use a family minivan for road trips and using the Tesla for daily commutes
We use our Tesla for everything especially long cross country trips. Although we live in the USA which is vast and Tesla's fantastic supercharger network.
In fact we gave our gas guzzlers to our kids because they suck compared to a Tesla.

We charge at home, no more trips to the gas station. On long trips we stop for 8 to 15 minutes at a supercharger, just long enough to pee and get a coffee or bite to eat. Usually it charges more than we need before we make it back to the car.

Perhaps it's different where you are in the UK?
 
Aug 28, 2022
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The main reason I do not yet have an EV capable of that range, is because a new $40k+ vehicle is not in my range.

YMMV.
Hopefully as Tesla meet demand prices will come back down to earth. You also have to consider with an EV there's no oil changes, no maintenance, no expensive repairs and electricity is cheaper than dirt... At least it is for me @ 0.13/kw. If I go to time based billing I can charge at night for 8 cents a kilowatt.
 

USAFRet

Illustrious
Moderator
Hopefully as Tesla meet demand prices will come back down to earth. You also have to consider with an EV there's no oil changes, no maintenance, no expensive repairs and electricity is cheaper than dirt... At least it is for me @ 0.13/kw. If I go to time based billing I can charge at night for 8 cents a kilowatt.
Don't get me wrong..I'd love an EV>
But currently, too expensive for me.

I'm in the market for truck.
I'd looooove a Rivian.
But, $75k just ain't happening...;)

I gave up buying new expensive cars decades ago.

Oil changes? $50, once or twice a year. Not an issue.
 
Reactions: Smokin Paul
Aug 29, 2022
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I'll add one other point: I personally found doing the same 1500 mile road trip in my GMC Acadia way more stressful than in my Model 3. Why? In my Tesla, autopilot on the highways means the car will drive itself for long stretches. Less mental load for me. The cruise control is also very smart; it works all the way down to a dead stop and keeps you moving in traffic. Passing other vehicles in my M3 is very easy compared to a gas car - it's like a rocket ship, it just zooms past other cars when you need to pass.
You had me until here. It's not our fault you have a bad gas powered car and cheaped out. There are a ton of cars with better drivers assistance (and that's what it is, NOT SELF DRIVING) than Tesla. They fell behind years ago. You are giving it credit for a cruise control system that's existed for atleast 20 years. And a GMC Acadia, like almost every GM car, uses a pretty pathetic engine. You chose wrong there.

And to the article writer, he should have got a plug on hybrid, especially since they clearly got that car for city driving. It's really weird they would buy a car that had miserable range and a charger no one has. Half the article can infact be attributed to the cars bad range as he was being screwed on the second day by it.
 
Aug 30, 2022
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It's totally irrelevant. The entire idea of a battery powered EV is ludicrous. The are NOT earth friendly and they are NOT user friendly. You are being more earth friendly commuting in a 3/4 ton diesel truck all by yourself. These batteries are NASTY to make and NASTY to dispose of. The ONLY reason that they are being forced onto everyone is that fact that so many people have bought into the dimwitted ideal that they are going to "save the planet" from a faux disaster.
You should do a bit of research before believing the first thing you read on Fox about EVs. This has been shown to be untrue time and again. You are also forgetting to mention (or purposely ignoring) that batteries are able to be recycled - gas and diesel are not. You also assume that the technology will not improve and you may not be aware of this, but we will run out of oil; batteries can be charged from the sun, wind, tides, geothermal.... oh, and typing words in all caps definitely shows that you are speaking from facts and not emotion <- sarcasm if you weren't aware
 
Aug 28, 2022
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Don't get me wrong..I'd love an EV>
But currently, too expensive for me.

I'm in the market for truck.
I'd looooove a Rivian.
But, $75k just ain't happening...;)

I gave up buying new expensive cars decades ago.

Oil changes? $50, once or twice a year. Not an issue.
I felt the same way but then I invested in Tesla and Elon's success allowed me to buy a Tesla before the prices started going up. 70k is pricey and I'm not sure I would have bought it at those prices. However for the CyberTruck I pre-ordered I'll sell shares if I have to. There are much less expensive EVs but their specs suck.
 
Sep 3, 2022
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Wow you have a lot of myths and misinformation in that post. Over the lifetime of an EV it uses almost an order of magnitude less resources and CO2. Although CO2 isn't a pollutant, it's plant food, they take the carbon and release oxygen.

As far as batteries they are produced very environment friendly. Old batteries are recycled recovering just north of 97% of the materials. You see batteries are basically high grade ore. It's simpler, easier and way less expensive to recycle batteries that to mine, refine and process the raw materials. Tesla batteries last between 500,000 and 2 million miles depending on the chemistry. Once it's capacity goes below 70% they are considered end of life. The battery pack still functions just a a reduced range. If that pack were replaced the old pack would get repurposed for use in a stationary battery pack as size, weight and capacity don't matter. After that or if the pack is damaged they get recycled.

In about 10 years there will little need for mining as there will be enough old batteries to recycle into new ones.

It's alright, you can still hate EVs. 😁 Just stop repeating BS
"almost an order of magnitude less resources"

What a meaningless statement.

order of magnitude: "a class in a system of classification determined by size, each class being a number of times (usually ten) greater or smaller than the one before."

So you are saying EVs use almost 10 times less resources than gas cars over their lifetime. If you believe that then I've got a bridge to sell you.

"it's plant food"

CO2 is a very widely used resource in various industries around the world - modern life WOULD NOT be possible without it.

"As far as batteries they are produced very environment friendly."

No they are not!

The main supplier of the cobalt is the corrupt government of Congo working with Chinese mining firms. Workers are paid slave labor wages. Tens of thousands of child labors have been used. Workers can be beaten and killed and safety rules are ignored. Such mines could not even operate in the West as they would be shut down for safety reasons alone, not to mention they would be sued out if existence by injured parties.

The mining equipment uses large amounts of fossil fuels. Chemicals from the ore refining process are dumped to poison the ground and water. The remaining mine tailings are dumped to pollute the ground and water. All this pollution not only kills locals but people in downstream - these poisons eventually end up in the ocean. Then of course the cobalt needs to be shipped for further refining using fossil and reshipped again to a battery plant using more fossil fuels.

"Old batteries are recycled recovering just north of 97% of the materials. You see batteries are basically high grade ore. It's simpler, easier and way less expensive to recycle batteries that to mine, refine and process the raw materials."

As of May, 2022 most of the batteries recycled had came form Tesla's own R & D and are not consumer batteries.

That does not just happen by magic. The battery packs are made up many small cylinder shaped batteries, very similar to those used in cordless tool battery packs. They all have to disassembled and then sent to refiners, which burns large amounts of fossil fuels.

"Tesla batteries last between 500,000 and 2 million miles depending on the chemistry."

That is all based on estimations and not actual real life field use over the course of actually driving a vehicle for many years. Those miles are based upon the estimated charging cycles of the battery times the number of miles one can drive under ideal conditions for each charge. Improper use of the battery such as running it to a very low point quite often or routinely charging it to 100% will lower the life of the battery. Some early Teslas have already seen battery capacity drop after 50,000 miles.

"If that pack were replaced the old pack would get repurposed for use in a stationary battery pack as size, weight and capacity don't matter."

Does not make any economic sense. Its far more efficient to recycle them into new products using new technology with higher efficiency rather than trying to adapt old outdated technology. Certainly these used battery packs would never go into any consumer products as they would be setting themselves up for various lawsuits.

"In about 10 years there will little need for mining as there will be enough old batteries to recycle into new ones."

That is utter nonsense! The exact opposite is true. Mining for the various resources is going to have to expand multiple times it current capacity, which is going to lead to massive pollution around the world just form the mining and refining process.

They will also have to massively increase mining for resources used in the construction of the electrical grid and for fossil fuels used to power it. The current electrical grid is no where near supporting even a fraction of these new cars.

Makes no sense. The cheapest EV car costs 2 times what I paid for a new gas car, which means I am already out $14,000. I can't even use any of the EVs as they are too small - not enough cargo room. Insurance rates for the cheapest ones would be nearly 8 times my current rates. The closest charging station is 40 miles away. No way am I going to wait at a charging stations versus 4 minutes at a gas station that I can find anywhere. Then of course they will have higher license fees as that is based on their value.

The closest EV maintenance and body chops are 125 miles one way. My 12 volt needs replacing about 6 years as it gets over 100 in the summer and -40 in winter. The last one cost me $120 and I replaced it myself in 20 minutes. The old lead battery is sent to a recycling center. If my battery becomes fully discharged for some reason I can jump start it myself with a portable 2.5 pound jump starter that is small enough to keep in my jacket pocket. A wrecker must be equipped with a super charger for a EV and that is going to cost you big bucks as time is money for a wrecker driver. Most likely you'll need to have your EV towed to some place to have it recharged - and in many cases you need to use a wrecker with a flatbed as conventional towing can damage a EV.

An EV cost more to operate over its lifetime!

When car ends its life it will go to auto yard where the engine is pulled and resold to a engine rebuilder. Parts will be pulled form the car and resold. What remains will go to a scarp yard shedder.
 
Aug 28, 2022
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"almost an order of magnitude less resources"

What a meaningless statement.

order of magnitude: "a class in a system of classification determined by size, each class being a number of times (usually ten) greater or smaller than the one before."

So you are saying EVs use almost 10 times less resources than gas cars over their lifetime. If you believe that then I've got a bridge to sell you.

"it's plant food"

CO2 is a very widely used resource in various industries around the world - modern life WOULD NOT be possible without it.

"As far as batteries they are produced very environment friendly."

No they are not!

The main supplier of the cobalt is the corrupt government of Congo working with Chinese mining firms. Workers are paid slave labor wages. Tens of thousands of child labors have been used. Workers can be beaten and killed and safety rules are ignored. Such mines could not even operate in the West as they would be shut down for safety reasons alone, not to mention they would be sued out if existence by injured parties.

The mining equipment uses large amounts of fossil fuels. Chemicals from the ore refining process are dumped to poison the ground and water. The remaining mine tailings are dumped to pollute the ground and water. All this pollution not only kills locals but people in downstream - these poisons eventually end up in the ocean. Then of course the cobalt needs to be shipped for further refining using fossil and reshipped again to a battery plant using more fossil fuels.

"Old batteries are recycled recovering just north of 97% of the materials. You see batteries are basically high grade ore. It's simpler, easier and way less expensive to recycle batteries that to mine, refine and process the raw materials."

As of May, 2022 most of the batteries recycled had came form Tesla's own R & D and are not consumer batteries.

That does not just happen by magic. The battery packs are made up many small cylinder shaped batteries, very similar to those used in cordless tool battery packs. They all have to disassembled and then sent to refiners, which burns large amounts of fossil fuels.

"Tesla batteries last between 500,000 and 2 million miles depending on the chemistry."

That is all based on estimations and not actual real life field use over the course of actually driving a vehicle for many years. Those miles are based upon the estimated charging cycles of the battery times the number of miles one can drive under ideal conditions for each charge. Improper use of the battery such as running it to a very low point quite often or routinely charging it to 100% will lower the life of the battery. Some early Teslas have already seen battery capacity drop after 50,000 miles.

"If that pack were replaced the old pack would get repurposed for use in a stationary battery pack as size, weight and capacity don't matter."

Does not make any economic sense. Its far more efficient to recycle them into new products using new technology with higher efficiency rather than trying to adapt old outdated technology. Certainly these used battery packs would never go into any consumer products as they would be setting themselves up for various lawsuits.

"In about 10 years there will little need for mining as there will be enough old batteries to recycle into new ones."

That is utter nonsense! The exact opposite is true. Mining for the various resources is going to have to expand multiple times it current capacity, which is going to lead to massive pollution around the world just form the mining and refining process.

They will also have to massively increase mining for resources used in the construction of the electrical grid and for fossil fuels used to power it. The current electrical grid is no where near supporting even a fraction of these new cars.

Makes no sense. The cheapest EV car costs 2 times what I paid for a new gas car, which means I am already out $14,000. I can't even use any of the EVs as they are too small - not enough cargo room. Insurance rates for the cheapest ones would be nearly 8 times my current rates. The closest charging station is 40 miles away. No way am I going to wait at a charging stations versus 4 minutes at a gas station that I can find anywhere. Then of course they will have higher license fees as that is based on their value.

The closest EV maintenance and body chops are 125 miles one way. My 12 volt needs replacing about 6 years as it gets over 100 in the summer and -40 in winter. The last one cost me $120 and I replaced it myself in 20 minutes. The old lead battery is sent to a recycling center. If my battery becomes fully discharged for some reason I can jump start it myself with a portable 2.5 pound jump starter that is small enough to keep in my jacket pocket. A wrecker must be equipped with a super charger for a EV and that is going to cost you big bucks as time is money for a wrecker driver. Most likely you'll need to have your EV towed to some place to have it recharged - and in many cases you need to use a wrecker with a flatbed as conventional towing can damage a EV.

An EV cost more to operate over its lifetime!

When car ends its life it will go to auto yard where the engine is pulled and resold to a engine rebuilder. Parts will be pulled form the car and resold. What remains will go to a scarp yard shedder.
Wow is this a reply or a novel. 🤗
Tesla doesn't get or use cobalt from the Congo. In fact they have reduced the amount of cobalt in their batteries to Almost nothing. Zero cobalt being the goal. What little they get is from mines using good mining practices. It saves money and allows more batteries to be made. LFP batteries use no cobalt.
FYI the process of gasoline refining uses about 10 times more Cobalt than all the EVs in the world use. Oops, you didn't know that.

Not sure your reading comprehension is enough to understand what I wrote. They don't recycled batteries out of the pack. They recycle the entire pack, hasn't grinded up and extract and purify all the materials. Then make brand new batteries. That's what recyclung over 97% of the materials means. If a pack is good with reduce capacity it will get used in stationary power, but will never be used in another vehicle.

I would counter the rest of your bullshit but it wouldn't change your closed mind. As much as I can explain it to you I can never understand it for you. 😄

Doesn't matter what you think, or think you know. EVs are a disruptive technology following the classic S-curve adoption. In 10 years ICE manufacturing will be essentially dead. There will always be a few ICE vehicles, just like we still have horses.
It'll take 10 or more years for most battery packs to reach end of life at which time there will be enough to reduce mining for materials to produce EVs to almost nothing. Again old batteries are basically ultra high grade ore. They get ground up and all the various materials are extracted into pure forms to be used again making new batteries.

Now continue on with your crusade against the future, your just wasting your time and energy. 😄
 
Aug 28, 2022
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An EV cost more to operate over its lifetime!
ROTFLMAO 🤣 what wrong with you? 😄😂🤣
My Tesla model Y is cheaper than dirt to fuel, have no maintenance for the life of the car and the battery will last at least 500,000 miles. There is no engine with reciprocating parts that experiences high temperatures and temperature extremes. No transmission etc. Well designed electric motors are known for their extreme reliability and longevity. They spin aka have no reciprocating parts.

EVs cost more 😂🤣 honey get the morphine I split my sides laughing. 😄😆

I guess the insane demand for EVs is because they cost more and cost more to operate. 😂🤣 Must be only the insane people are buying them. Oh my God you can't be serious. 😆😂🤣

I have to tell you it's really is crazy how much money I'm saving. At some point my car is going to hold me up at gunpoint and rob me. It's self-driving so it'll probably drive me to an ATM and make me withdraw all my savings. It is a robot on wheels after all. 😄😆😂 I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe, gotta stop now. ROTFLMAO 😆🤣
 
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