Livestreaming in HDMI using a Laptop

[change42012]

Hello,
I want to stream live over the Internet using an HDMI camera, PC Laptop computer and a cellphone.

What PC Laptop would you recommend?

JC

 

[WR2]

Hello Change42012;

Using your cell phone as the internet modem for the laptop (tethering)?
Check to make sure your cell carrier and cell plan allows for that.

You laptop choice can be just about anything but a 'Netbook and it will have enough processing power to do the video encoding and compression you need to stream video.

 

[WR2]

Something along these lines would do nicely.
HP Pavilion dm1-4010us 11" Notebook Review(Late 2011)

But if you're going to be doing any type of heavy video editing or post processing, like running a program similar to Adobe Premier Pro, or other demanding software you'll probably want more processing power.

 

[change42012]

WR2,

Thank-you for the reply. I looked closely at the HP you suggested and don't see a HDMI input for my HDMI camera.

Is there another way to input HDMI that I am missing?

 

[WR2]

Does your camera only have HDMI output?
It would be a very unusual camera if it did.

 

[change42012]

Yes it has other outputs however my goal is to stream live on location, in HDMI.

 

[WR2]

my goal is to stream live on location, in HD[strike]MI[/strike].

 

[WR2]

You want to stream in HD, not HDMI.

 

[change42012]

You want to stream in HD, not HDMI.

Streaming in HD yes but full HD with out any compression or the need for scaling. And that is what the HDMI protocal will do. It is a audio/video interface for transmitting uncompressed digital data.

If I had a computer tower I could put a capture card in one of the free slots however the laptop has no free slots and is a problem. Also it has no HDMI inputs.

There is a company, Live View, that makes a livepack that accomplishes all this but costs enough to buy a new car. I'm already driving a GEO. <g>

 

[WR2]

Streaming in HD yes but full HD with out any compression or the need for scaling

1. How much data per second does full HD without compression or scaling make?
2. How much internet data bandwidth per second (upload speed) will you have with your cell phone?

 

[change42012]

1. How much data per second does full HD without compression or scaling make?
2. How much internet data bandwidth per second (upload speed) will you have with your cell phone?

Two very good questions that I don't have verifiable answers to. Which is why I joined the Forum. I don't have an engineering backround.

What I do know is that the streaming software has 3 settings for input video.

Low = H264 Beta (200 Kbps)
Basic = H264 Beta (500 Kbps)
High = H264 Beta (700 Kbps)

The streaming company recommends a cellphone with 3G and a bandwith of 1 to1.5 Mbps or more.

Firewire can be used however there are issues with the audio not staying in sync.

Also, for reasons that I do not understand, data being transferred via Firewire requires compression when it is processed.

 

[WR2]

Engineering degree not required to understand some pretty basic stuff about what you plan to do.
You've already figured out that laptop HDMI (and desktop HDMI too) is output to monitor/TV only.

H264 is a standard video compression codec.
So it appears that you will be working with compressed video data after all.

Very highly compressed in fact if the streaming software is using input from the camera of 700 Kbps on High settings.

But I would have expected the streaming software to OUTPUT @ 200 Kbps/500 Kbps/700 Kbps. With a higher INPUT from the camera to the software.

What does your camera output? I wouldn't be surprised if the camera is doing some compression itself. What IO port options does your camera have?
Probably a good idea to list the make and model of your camera.

How Do I Connect My Video Camera to My Laptop?

 

[WR2]

1. How much data per second does full HD without compression or scaling make?
2. How much internet data bandwidth per second (upload speed) will you have with your cell phone?

I had to look it up myself since I couldn't remember the exact data.
1. Four minute Full HD sequence without compression is 32,457 gigabytes of data. Beginner's guide to HD video
2. How Fast is a Cell Phone Modem?
Don't forget that you need a cell phone plan that allows 'tethering'.

 

[change42012]

Cell phone modem, I don't know. However I just did a speed test using my cellphone .

3G
Download Upload
0.60 Mbps 0.47 Mbps

4G
5.59 Mbps 1.29Mbps

Quite a difference. I did a short stream to my account using 3G and 4G and both videos made it "live".

Looking forward to viewing the Beginner's Guide To HD Video". Thanks for the link. I am a big fan of Wikipedia.Org and have learned a lot while spending time there.

Tonight I was reading about AVCHD (Advanced Video Coding High Definition). It is a file based format for digital recording and playback of high definition video. Looks like Sony and Panasonic are establishing it as the standard for consumer camcorders.

Thanks for all the feedback.

One last thing. About my video camera. I have not purchased it yet. Until I am confidant that I am buying the right equipment I am not going to spend any money. The camera I like is the Cannon XA10 HD Professional Camcorder. It may turn out to be more camera than I need though.

Thanks again

 

[WR2]

Cell phone modem = using your cell phone to send/rcv data.
You're lucky to be in a true 3G/4G market so you're in very good shape there.

H264/MPEG-4/AVCHD data compression is what I was expecting to hear about the camera output.

In the days of MPEG-2 cameras I know Firewire/800 was the preferred laptop input.
I'm pretty sure USB 2.0 has enough bandwidth (data throughput) to handle AVCHD input to the laptop. USB 3.0 certainly does.

What I'm less clear about is how much processing the laptop must do with your software to get that final 500 Kbps/700 Kbps output into live streaming. I'm wondering if the bottleneck is going to be the hard disk drive, especially if you're also recording for On Demand video playback for anyone who can't catch the live stream.

I've just had the thought that the right way to approach this (both for Camera and laptop reqmt) is to look in the specialized live streaming forums to see what people are successfully using to do the same things that you want.
The forums for your software of choice is probably a good place to start.

 

[change42012]

I am inclined to think that the bottleneck would be the CPU and or the Ram memory.

The camera would capture the information by way of the built in light censor, the CPU would have to create some meta data so that the packets of data could be identified and packaged for transmission. And the memory would assist the CPU and temporarily store the data for transmission.

Regarding the Streaming Forums, there are three that I have been looking at and two that I have investigated. Without going off topic I will sum it up and say that the experience has been a big disappointment.

Company 1, advertises their streaming services and even includes it on Sprint cell phones for free. However when I went to use it, clearly it did not work. I could not stream live at all. I went on line filled out several tickets over a 2 week period and never got a response.

Being totally stupid I signed up for their "Premium Service" because it was advertised as being for preferred customers and could have access to "Support" whenever I needed it. I filled out another ticket and a week later I got a reply that said, "Our servers are having issues and we will have the problems fixed soon."

Unbelievable!

I cancelled the "Premium Service" and found out that the account was set up for automatic rebilling each month. I am into month three still getting billed and the servers are still not up and running.

Company 2, the Forum was interesting. There was such a lack of response from the Forum "Helpers" that the members were complaining openly. I posted 2 questions and still have not gotten any answers. I filled out two tickets over four weeks ago and still no response.

Company 3, I am just approaching for the first time and will have to see how it goes.

My take away from all this so far is that the Streaming companies are looking for clients who are doing big shows and or big public events. Visit any of the Streaming sites and look at what they have on their front page. Streaming is a big business. And if your an individual who has to noodle around in a Forum looking for answers then your not going to get much assistance.

Once I get my Streaming Education together and get up and running I plan to create some "How To" videos that are targeted to people like me and post them on Utube. It will be a great project for me and will help me become better at all this.

I will let you know how Company 3 works out.

 

[santinopani96]

I am inclined to think that the bottleneck would be the CPU and or the Ram memory.

The camera would capture the information by way of the built in light censor, the CPU would have to create some meta data so that the packets of data could be identified and packaged for transmission. And the memory would assist the CPU and temporarily store the data for transmission.

Regarding the Streaming Forums, there are three that I have been looking at and two that I have investigated. Without going off topic I will sum it up and say that the experience has been a big disappointment.

Company 1, advertises their streaming services and even includes it on Sprint cell phones for free. However when I went to use it, clearly it did not work. I could not stream live at all. I went on line filled out several tickets over a 2 week period and never got a response.

Being totally stupid I signed up for their "Premium Service" because it was advertised as being for preferred customers and could have access to "Support" whenever I needed it. I filled out another ticket and a week later I got a reply that said, "Our servers are having issues and we will have the problems fixed soon."

Unbelievable!

I cancelled the "Premium Service" and found out that the account was set up for automatic rebilling each month. I am into month three still getting billed and the servers are still not up and running.

Company 2, the Forum was interesting. There was such a lack of response from the Forum "Helpers" that the members were complaining openly. I posted 2 questions and still have not gotten any answers. I filled out two tickets over four weeks ago and still no response.

Company 3, I am just approaching for the first time and will have to see how it goes.

My take away from all this so far is that the Streaming companies are looking for clients who are doing big shows and or big public events. Visit any of the Streaming sites and look at what they have on their front page. Streaming is a big business. And if your an individual who has to noodle around in a Forum looking for answers then your not going to get much assistance.

Once I get my Streaming Education together and get up and running I plan to create some "How To" videos that are targeted to people like me and post them on Utube. It will be a great project for me and will help me become better at all this.

I will let you know how Company 3 works out.

 

[santinopani96]

Hi,

I have the same question; and to avoid unhelpful questions like the ones by WR2 (which looks to be an IT expert, but doesn't answer any question, so WR2 please don't answer, thanks), I explain what I have, and what I need:

I have a Sony HDR-CX190E Camcorder, with HDMI and AV output, a Toshiba Satellite L650, and a Samsung Galaxy SIII, 3G connection with unlimited data, speed up to 14bps (take as 10bps, as the connection never reach this limit).

I wish to stream live using the HDMI, possibly directly to the Phone, using the Google+ Hangout (connected to youtube), instead of the laptop, for a simple reason: I'm a freelance reporter, (non professional, but with high standard of quality), and often happen to report outdoor events , that makes me uneasy to use a laptop (unless a small notebook).
I already tried to connect the camcorder to the laptop, via the AV out port, (with a AV to usb video grabber, that is quite cheap) for a conference, where I could plug the pc charger to the power socket) and the report was almost good, and I checked it, while recording, both on the same pc, and in my ipad. I was able to watch the stream on my website (that is connected to my youtube channel) and it was ok.
Apart the fact that I had to plug the pc power to the socket (not a big deal with a full charged battery, but a big problem for long time recording, and if I'm outdoor, and I can't obviously use a socket, and the pc weight is self a problem, as same as the space needed), the two problems where the audio quality, as the audio was repeatedly delayed, probably self for the connection, or probably for the low quality of the grabber, and the video quality, that on camera is excellent, and on the youtube channel is poor.

So, I wish to connect the camera to the Samsung using the HDMI out port to the micro USB of the phone.
Somebody could answer that I could connect directly is using a small adapter, that I can find easily for cheap at any electronics store. The problem is that Android doesn't recognize the camera, and it looks that it doesn't exist any software compatible with android,that can solve this problem.

The second option could be, indeed, to buy a small notebook with HDMI adaptor (HDMI out from the cam, to the USB port of the pc), or to buy an external video capture card (similar to the ones that are on sell in Livestream, as Procaster).
Of course at moment I wish to avoid this option, that's quite expensive (£200 or more, at least) and to opt for something cheaper. I'm looking for an adapter as HDMI out to Micro USB or simple USB. What I find in the shops and online is exactly the opposite. (USB out to HDMI in, that's for me is useless).

Thanks for attention.

Santino

 

[santinopani96]

Can you tell me which were the companies?

I know two important websites for live stream broadcasting:

Livestream.com and ustreamtv.com

Both of them offer a good standard service both for professional and amateur streamers.

But, as I guess you were talking about companies like those, I wish to summarize the issues regarded.

Both of the services are free for amateurs, but with a limited time of recording (max 15min or a usage data limit up to 10GB/m) and with advert inside the streams.

If you are a professional, and you need to use an unlimited data/time plan, you can subscribe at the "cheap" price of
$40/m or higher, depending to the company.

I think that this service could be useful just for small companies which need to have an unlimited data, without the need of a spacious website hosting. Big companies have self the right software's and equipment needed, as well as web hosting (that is mostly a server itself). The BBC channel could be an example.

I am a broadcaster, with a own youtube channel, and I stream minimal 1 video a week, with an average time of 30 mins of recording x video. As they are mostly in full HD, they require a space of between 3 and 6GB each. the service that they offer me is useless for me.

On Youtube I have an unlimited data space, and max 2 hours/20GB per video; plus on youtube I can earn money through the adsense, as I am a partner. This platform now offers also a live stream facility (using the Google+ Hangout). So I advice you to use this system.

Indeed, the main problem is self not the website where the videos get stored, but the apparacture and software's that can do the job easily, quickly, efficiently, and possibly at a cheap rate.

 

[Brett928S2]

Hi

VERY interesting thread, I learnt a LOT ...thanks WR2

The only thing I can comment on is Laptops HDMI....

Most modern laptops have HDMI "OUT"

Very few (and ONLY EXPENSIVE ones) have HDMI "IN"

All the best Brett