Not entirely sure what I need.

[Napalmhardcore]

Hi,

Over the years I've kept kept up when it comes to the video side of things (such as HDMI, S-Video and PC connections etc), however my knowledge of audio tech is extremely lacking.

For some time I've had various consoles (PS2/3, XBOX etc) as well as my PC which have all used RCA stereo for audio. These have gone into a cheap RCA (female) to 3.5 mm (female) adapter, which I have plugged the male 3.5 mm jack of my Logitech speakers into. This is not a very elegant solution as each time I want to use one of them I have to swap the connection. Another problem is that because of the cheap connector I occasionally have to fiddle around with it because the sound has cut out to one speaker.

I will soon be adding a PS4 to the set-up, which does not support RCA out. This has prompted a long overdue search for a more elegant solution. The problem is that I do not know exactly what I need. Is there any kind of receiver that would take multiple RCA inputs, an optical audio input and output in stereo? I am willing to replace the speakers I have, so it need not be 3.5 mm out, but I don't even know where to begin looking.

Your help would be much appreciated

 

[ien2222]

I should have asked this awhile ago....but oh well What monitor are you using specifically? Need to know what inputs you have and what resolution you use.

I've been doing some looking at the AVR's and here's some suggestions, found on Amazon UK:

Denon AVR-X500: £199
Pioneer VSX-423: £190
Yamaha RX-V373: £190

I didn't find anything for Sony or Onkyo in that price range on Amazon, but if you find some elsewhere post here what you found and we can take a look at it. For that matter, if you see cheaper models from all of them let me know also. Discontinued models don't show up on the main manufacture's page so I couldn't quickly search for them.

Out of those 3 though, I'd probably choose either the Pioneer or Yamaha over the Denon mainly because both of them use room correction (MCACC and YPAO respectively). This helps even out the frequency response of the speakers among other things. Also, those 2 also have all 4 HDMI ports in the rear which could make things tidier should you add a fourth component that uses HDMI.

For speakers: (width x height x depth)

Wharfedale 10.0 145 x 236 x 168mm: £109
Wharfedale 9.1 194 x 296 x 278mm: £100
Cambridge Audio S30 160 x 226 x 235mm: £130
Cambridge Audio S20 129 x 198 x 178mm: £100

These are probably going to be your best choices for limited space. I personally haven't heard the Wharfedale's but there's plenty of good things being said about their products. Cambridge makes very good speakers too, I personally have their Minx line for HT use.

The 10.0, 9.1, and S30's will give you lower end extension into the 50/60Hz range. The S20 rolls off in the 80/90Hz range but is a smaller unit if you need to save as much space as possible. If I were to put them in order of preference it'd probably be a tie between the 10.0 and S30's for first, 9.1 for second and the S20 last (unless I needed the space). The S30's will most likely sound a bit better than the 10.0 but they are 20 quid more and a fair amount larger and I'm not sure the improved sound would be worth that much. The 9.1 is the largest but will give you a little bit more low end extension than the 10.0 and S30's.

If you have easy access to hear them, take a listen and see what you like. But even if you can't, I highly doubt you'll be disappointed in any of the 4 choices.

So between the AVR and speakers, you will be right at your £300 budget, give or take a little.

 

[ssddx]

or you could buy a used set on ebay...

diamond 10.1 speakers.. good condition current bid 40gbp/pair!

http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wharfedale-DIAMOND-10-1-Speakers-Great-Condition-WHAT-HI-FI-Winners-/161164548473?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item258627d979

why buy new when you can buy good condition used for less...

you would be under your budget and still get decent speakers.

you can buy an avr this way too just make sure you buy a newer model with hdmi/optical support.

 

[Napalmhardcore]

@ien2222 and @ssddx Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it

I've just ordered some shelving to accommodate my equipment which should free up some space. I'm going to wait for that to arrive to make sure it meets my needs and then I'll order the AV receiver and see how much room I have for the speakers.

I noticed when looking at the Pioneer VSX-423 and the Yamaha RX-V373 that they both mention something called "audio return". This has confused me a little. I presume it means if an audio source is connected directly to the TV, that it can send that signal to the AVR via HDMI. Something they don't really make clear is, do they simply pass the HDMI signal through or does the AVR receive the audio signal from the HDMI input and then output that audio through the speakers (connected to the AVR) and pass through the video signal to the TV? I just want to clear this up so I know what cables to buy.

Both of you have been so much help I don't know what to select as best answer. If one of you is particularly keen to receive best answer let me know

 

[ien2222]

ARC is basically sending audio from the TV/monitor back down to an AVR/other type of sound system via the same HDMI connection used to send video from the AVR/etc to the TV. Both the sound system and the TV/monitor need to support it, not all do.

So you have HDMI out on the AVR connected to HDMI in on a TV, you also have a PS3 connected to the TV. If you switch the input on the TV to the PS3 and have ARC on, the audio will be sent back on the same HDMI connection your AVR is using to send video to the TV. Hope that makes sense to you

What TV/monitor are you using?

(heh, best answer doesn't really matter that much. Just like helping out.)

 

[Napalmhardcore]

@ien2222 I was just reading the PDF manual. Was going to edit my post to save you the trouble of explaining it

I doubt my monitor is compatible but I'd have to check. If the PVR takes audio from a direct HDMI input, I won't have any need for the ARC.

 

[Napalmhardcore]

I was just about to click "place order" for the AVR, speakers and a bunch of other stuff I need when I suddenly thought, "do the Wharfedale 10.0's come with speaker wire?" Then I realised, I know nothing about speaker wire!

One of the items commonly bought along with the speakers were banana plugs and this speaker wire. It appears to be unshielded, so what do I do with it? Do I have to shield or tape it manually or is it supposed to be bare wire? I assume I'll need the banana plugs too. Could you help a poor idiot out again please I'm pretty eager to get this ordered.

Edit: Don't worry, I bought the wire and plugs. I'm pretty sure it isn't actually bare wire. I'll figure it out. Wish me luck

 

[ssddx]

its hard to tell but it does look like there is some sort of thin rubber on them.

the stuff i use typically has a much thicker casing like this image

as far as what speaker wire you need... the diamond 10.0 is rated at 75w at 6ohm.

the 14awg you picked is fine for your speakers up to a 50ft run provided its not just bare wire. (it should have a clear rubber casing)

good reading: http/www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

bananna plugs work great but there are other options http/www.crutchfield.com/S-6QKEp6Hi2Fp/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

 

[Napalmhardcore]

Thanks ssddx, I'm very grateful to you and ien2222 for all the help. I'll let you know how I get on once everything arrives

 

[Napalmhardcore]

Everything has arrived and been successfully set up

As indicated by my previous post I went with the Wharfedale 10.0's which sound beautiful. I bought the Yamaha RX-V375 (I actually ordered the 373, but the seller contacted me to let me know the item had been listed incorrectly and asked if I wished to proceed with the order, which I did as it's pretty much identical). Since posting my questions I've realised the PS2 has a digital optical output on the back and with an adapter the XBOX does optical out too (currently have a bid for the adapter on eBay). The PC, PS3 and PS4 are all connected to the unit via HDMI. All in all I'm very happy.

I would like to ask a couple of questions I've not been able to get answers to either online or in the instruction manuals. When setting up the audio on my PC there are a couple of things I am unsure about. On the "supported formats" tab of my audio device, I get a message when pressing the test button saying that Windows cannot play the test tone for both DTS Audio and Microsoft WMA Pro Audio. On the same screen are various different sample rate options. When testing through headphones last night, all of the options made a sound when the test button was pressed, although some only produced a sound through one side. Today I have tried again and nothing above 48.0 KHz is producing sound when the test button is pressed (through speakers or headphones). I believe due to this, the highest I can set on the advanced tab is 24 bit, 48000 Hz whereas last night I believe (although am not 100% certain) I got sound using 24 bit, 192000 KHz. I am unsure what to set and do not understand why settings that were working last night no longer work.

The other thing that confuses me is the different bit-stream options. Being I am using stereo, are any of the available options (such as Dolby and DTS etc) relevant? Many of them state 5.1 or 7.1 surround, but if used with stereo does the information from the other channels get broadcast through the stereo speaker (for example like the Turtle Beach DSS2 broadcasts surround sound using stereo headphones)?

It was only while typing this message I did the audio tests again (to confirm what I tested last night). So now I am concerned as to why tests that worked last night are no longer working. The PS3 warns that using incompatible options can damage equipment and I am hoping my equipment hasn't been damaged performing the tests on PC. Hopefully it's just a corrupted sound driver (Nvidia HD audio) or my PC being temperamental.

Update: Seems after reinstalling drivers and swapping from "DVI to HDMI" to HDMI (both ends), the highest I can go is 48.0 KHz, 24 bit. I don't know why the tests produced sound yesterday and not today but hopefully my equipment isn't damaged. Something else I've just realised is that for certain games I'll have to plug directly into the monitor as it only supports pass-through for TV and HDTV resolutions. Bummer

Further update: Being I play old games regularly, the limitations of the AVR's output resolutions are unacceptable. I've tried various methods of circumventing this (so I can use one of the graphics card outputs for sound and the other for video) but the closest I got still involved much hassle (I wont go into detail but it involved plugging and unplugging connections while the system was on to fool my graphics card into thinking multiple displays were connected). I'm going to have to output sound from my PC by another method. I already have an analogue to RCA lead (which I was previously using), but should I consider buying an SPDIF lead instead?

Further update: Most likely the last update I'll post to wrap up this thread, unless someone replies to my final question (which is more of an aside anyway).

I've ordered a Creative Sound Blaster Omni USB sound card along with a Turtle Beach DSS-2. The Omni appeals to me as it has DDL (enabling 5.1 out through optical) and a built in mic (actually two). This will enable me to use my AKG headphones (with 5.1 when used with the DSS-2) when I play online on my PC and not have to buy a separate mic. Strictly speaking I did not require the DSS-2 as the AV receiver emulates surround sound through the headphone jack. However it would be a hassle, requiring a USB cable to be routed in front of me so it doesn't get in the way, and a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter, so the DSS2 will simplify things.

It was only after ordering the DSS-2 that I discovered Creative have a similar product with more features called the Sound Blaster Recon3D (USB). It is compatible with the PC, PS3/4 and more. I may have to start a new thread to gather some opinions. If it is a lot better I may have to consider sending back the DSS-2.

Now, the question I mentioned earlier. In the settings for my onboard sound there are the options for sample rate and bit depth. When using an analogue output, what settings should be used? While the speakers work (in general) and make sound when the test button is pressed at the highest settings, is there actually any advantage to this? More importantly are there any disadvantages to having it set to the highest (will it affect performance)?