if the courts rule (and appeal is unsuccessful) that the methods the US uses mass collecting of data is unconstitutional, then does the leaking of unconstitutionally collected data still make Snowden subject to treason laws?
The dystopian fantasies of yesteryear are now a reality. We’ve allowed the coming of an age where the civil liberties our forefathers fought so hard for are being eroded by the day. Freedom of Press, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly are mere ghostly images of their original intent. We’ve woken up to an Orwellian Society of Fear where anyone is at the mercy of being labeled a terrorist for standing up for rights we took for granted just over a decade ago. Read about how we’re waging war against ourselves at http/dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/09/living-in-society-of-fear-ten-years.html
Quote: "if the courts rule (and appeal is unsuccessful) that the methods the US uses mass collecting of data is unconstitutional, then does the leaking of unconstitutionally collected data still make Snowden subject to treason laws?"
Yep. They can't retroactively make something illegal and then arrest people who did it while it was still legal (this is known as an ex post facto law) . By the same token, if you break a law on Monday and they change it on Friday, you still broke the law on Monday (Trivial example: I get a speeding ticket for going 45 in a 25mph zone. If they later increase the speed limit to 45, I still have to pay my ticket).
I actually opposed these changes. I have no issue with the collection of metadata. The reason being that unless this information is stored it will not be able to accessed later. For example, the guys who did Boston marathon bombing were linked to the 3rd guy killed in Florida via the PRISM like system.
From purely technical standpoint I don't understand how else you would create links between other than through Metadata. And being as you don't know who you are looking for before hand you won't know until the information is necessary to actually collect it.
I guess I'm one of the Americans that doesn't have issue with NSA system because it's not actually collecting "data" about me.
They are collecting DATA on you.
Every phone call, Every Email, Every letter you mail through the post office they get a copy or meta data. The post office stores an image of your mail for at least 30 days.
All online or cloud storage is accessed and mined.
Once you are in their sights, every post you submit online can then be downloaded and referenced. Traced by phone or IP address.
So to say, they are not collecting data about me, is absurd.
These seem promising. However, since the president can only recommend these since he doesnt have the power to force them (afaik), we have to wait and see how congress deals with this but I'm pretty sure they will enforce the general idea (whether or not some people in congress care, they want to be re-elected so this can just be all politics and publicity)
They don't collect the content of your call, information about your call again is metadata. Accessing the content requires warrant which I agree, to me it's no different than post office reads addresses to determine where to forward the mail, the federal government without reason can not open the contents. I don't understand why people aren't upset over this, but because the medium is digital they are upset.
Finally, this idea that people care about privacy is a joke otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this public forum,you wouldn't have a Facebook, Twitter, store information on the cloud the biggest issue isn't what big brother collects, the issue is people freely give away their personal information and that has nothing to.di with government. They don't have to watch you, you want to be seen, so cut the bull isht and false outrage.
considering obama and members of congress gave weapons and material supplies and aid both financial and medical to al queda rebels in syria, obama and those congress members are now known criminals and have committed high treason. until they are put infront of a firing squad and shot by any order of any officer of the united states military for 5 counts of high treason. the first being punishable by death, either on the spot or after a military court finds them guilty, which is not needed since their votes and signatures as well as public acknowledgements are in both print and video via both public media and government media and record keeping which in every court of law is admission of the facts. violations of their oaths of office and of laws public is admittance of guilt. in time of war it's high treason on the battlefield such as was made by al queda terrorist on 9/11 is punishable on the spot.
when enough americans will stand up in force and demand their heads delivered up on silver platters.
i've already started demanding this the day congress passed this legislation and i haven't stopped even after obama ordered and signed it. in all earnestly every one of them should be hanged from the cherry trees lining the lincoln memorial all the way to the washington monument and to the interchange of the f.c.c. building just beyond that along the tidal basin right there on the potomac river would be most fitting.
I noticed in the 60 Minutes piece that at least one of the NSA's computers is still running XP. This isn't a surprise for me, and I would expect to see the same at the DMV, IRS, US Post Office, or any other government run bureaucratic agency. A private enterprise, Tom's Hardware for example, couldn't survive running their business on a thirteen year old operating system. Everyone at the NSA, however, gets paid no matter how inefficiently and badly it is run. They may be collecting a lot of data but I doubt they have a clue what to do with the information without help from corporate america or the telecoms. Or summer high school interns. So tell me, is Tom's Hardware running XP?
@husker "Yep. They can't retroactively make something illegal and then arrest people who did it while it was still legal (this is known as an ex post facto law) . By the same token, if you break a law on Monday and they change it on Friday, you still broke the law on Monday (Trivial example: I get a speeding ticket for going 45 in a 25mph zone. If they later increase the speed limit to 45, I still have to pay my ticket). "
There is a difference between changing a law later on and ruling a law unconstitutional. If a law is later found to be unconstitutional anyone found guilty of violating it are cleared of all charges. Since the law itself never had legal merit to the eyes of the court.
This is idiotic. NSA should be allowed to operate as it has been operating. These 'experts' are completely ignorant to how datamining works, and then have the gall to ask for Senate-appointed leadership in the NSA? The Pentagon is who should be handling the NSA, not civilians. NSA's operations should be darker, deeper and more widespread than they are at the moment. Buffoons like Obama and his gang don't understand just how massive the amount of data is that the NSA collects. It would take years to go through a single day of data if the entire DoD were to be tasked with combing through it. The only instances of human interaction are when flags are raised. Real flags, not angry rants on reddit.
Systems such as botnets, Proxy/Routing solutions such as Tor, and Packet Piggybacking can only be tracked if ALL information is had. The NSA absolutely needs to have everything, including names. Everything a person does, down to the most random Pseudonyms, are subject to patterns. Without metadata, patterns are no longer mineable.
The concept of Privacy extending beyond the physical space within an enclosed volume of ownership is an absurd misinterpretation of the law.
Just because keeping records, managed by people, is illegal should not impede a nation's capacity to >--Blindly--< collect relevant information to track data.
Taking metadata away would severely cripple the ability to gather information and would slow the process down to the point where any flags are raised too late to be of any use.
I believe the NSA should also do all they can to break encryption. Without a strong arm to break an encryption, encryption would never improve.
Seriously. There are rapists and murderers in the world, but lets all get up in arms when a computer saves my drunk dial calls just in case I turn out to be a traitor or a terrorist.
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