Please help me choose a laptop.

[Virginian17]

I would like to spend under $500 and don't mind going refurbished if that is a good option.

I'm looking for 17-inch screen and fast performance for general use, websurfing, and some low-end games.

I would really prefer Windows 7 but might consider Windows 8 if the deal is much better.

In the past I've liked Acer, Asus, Gateway,, and Lenovo brands, but I am open to suggestions.

I've looked on Amazon but am pretty confused about the different processors. Here are a few I am considering, but I don't know if any of them is good choice.

Acer P2020M NX.MGAAA.004;E1-731-... 17.3-Inch Laptop
Intel Intel_Pentium_Dual_Core_2020M 2.4 GHz
4.0 GB DDR3
500.0 GB 5400.0 rpm Hard Drive
17.3-Inch Screen
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Acer Aspire 17.3-Inch Laptop Intel Core, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bits
Intel Pentium B960, 2.4 GHz
4 GB SDRAM,500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
DVDRW, Intel HD Graphics, 1600 x 900 display
18-Inch Screen
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit


Acer Aspire V3-731-4439 17-Inch Laptop (2.4 Ghz Intel Pentium 2020M Processor, 4GB RAM, 500GB Hard Drive, Windows 7 Home Premium)
Intel Intel_Pentium_Dual_Core_2020M 2.4 GHz
4 GB DDR3
500 GB 7200 rpm Hard Drive
17.3-Inch Screen
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Gateway NE72206u 17.3-Inch Laptop
AMD A-Series A6-5200 2.0 GHz (2 MB Cache)
6 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
17.3-Inch Screen, AMD Radeon HD 8400 Graphics
Windows 8, 5-hour battery life


I'd really appreciate any help you can offer.

Thanks!

 

[Danbuscus25]

http/www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834257671

this isnt a bad laptop

 

[Virginian17]

Wow, that's beautiful. Thank you. The processing speed number is higher than any I've seen at this price. Sorry if these are stupid questions, but how much better would performance be on this laptop, than on the ones I listed in my post edit? Someone told me that Pentium and dual core are superior to AMD, but that GHz is certainly higher. One of the ones I listed has a B960 processor; do you know about those?

My edits came late, but I would love to hear any input about the computers I listed, in addition to the one you put here. I would save a few dollars with used versions of the ones I listed, but it sounds like yours might be a far superior computer and brand new. Would it be possible to rank order these options, with some words about how much better they get as you move from one to the next up the list? I really didn't want to go over $500, but it sounds like this might give a far better computer, with far better graphics?

Thank you VERY much for your help. As you can tell, I am kind of lost here.

 

[Tom Tancredi]

The Normal Rules of thumb with your request:
1) 17inch is pretty heavy, most people settle for a 15in then when 'home' they plug in the HDMI port to their LCD TV to work off of, just to offer a suggestion

2) 17inch increases the price that your gonna have to shop around to be under $500, and most likely won't get the best 'value for the money' normally because you have to compromise on other parts (not very obvious) in order to 'pay for' the larger screen

3) General use, websurf, etc. is all fine, but "low-end games" becomes the stickler point so let's quantify this a bit more. Most people would say the same thing but mean 'Casual Games' like Angry Birds, Plants Vs Zombies, Facebook Games, etc. That would put the 90% common computer systems you can get for cheap, specifically the AMD Laptops (A-x APUs), which is fine. IF you mean more like FarCry, StarCraft 2, Minecraft, (No BF3, BF4, Assassin's Creed line, etc.) you still need more 'power' and usually including a video card in the system which drives up the cost. For 2013 forward gaming, there is no "low-end" because the games themselves demand too much which can't really be compensated for except to have BOTH a good CPU and GPU (normal $1200 laptop).

4) Remember there is no "UPGRADE" path with laptops. Once you invest in a laptop, that is it. A desktop can swap the CPU out later or add a GPU, but NOT with a laptop.

If we focus in this context then here is some to consider:
Awesome deal but sold out example:
http/moofi.woot.com/offers/toshiba-17-3-full-hd-core-i7-laptop-8?utm_campaign=Commission+Junction+-+10860750&utm_source=Commission+Junction+Publisher+-+4485850&utm_medium=affiliate+-+Product+Catalog
This is alot of BANG for the buck and a steal. You will only have the Integrated Graphics (IG) for casual gaming as I mentioned, but here is what the IG can do for manby titles of games as well http/www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4600.86106.0.html

Good casual PC, but nothign more:
http/www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=WdbA8MAPEeOiFgpiylmiyAsl0C_wBv-3_0_0_0&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16834257833&cm_sp=
APUs or All Process Units (combining CPU and GPU onto the 'chip') are low power, low cost, LOW DEMAND offerings by AMD. For the 90% you mentioned (websurf, check email, youtube, facebook, etc.) yeah it works and that is all it needs to do. For 'Gaming' APUs suck, as you can see here in comparision http/www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8650G.87916.0.html to above. Not just bcause of the Integrated Graphics, but even with a GPU added on (which drives up cost) the APU's CPU part is low end that 'chokes' the system and causes again performance issues.

I would try here
http/slickdeals.net/f/6779708-dell-inspiron-17r-5737-intel-i7-4500u-8gb-1tb-hd-17-3-1600x900-led-435-dell-outlet
If you "select a system that cost exactly $735 for the coupon to work" you can get $300 off the system. This is hit or miss and immediately has to be bought when you see it or lose out (Outlet's are first come first sold basis).

Honestly, if you can't score a 'deal' like above with alot of luck, then you would have to give up on the gaming element and just 'settle' for a AMD. Your other options would be increase the amount of money to spend (actually double it) for a 17" Laptop that can game as well, OR drop down youe screen size (15" is fine) and you will have more options (i5 or i3 laptops) at the cost range you want. Normally at Walmart I seen (for causal use) a i3 Laptop, 14-15" screen for around $249.

 

[Danbuscus25]

ok, so i compared all the ones you posted with the one i posted. the last one you posted was almost equal with the one i posted, but not quite. it will probly get a slightly longer battery life, but the one i posted will give you more performance. and the intel pentium vs the a-6, the a-6 comes out on top, but just barely.

 

[Tom Tancredi]

ok, so i compared all the ones you posted with the one i posted. the last one you posted was almost equal with the one i posted, but not quite. it will probly get a slightly longer battery life, but the one i posted will give you more performance. and the intel pentium vs the a-6, the a-6 comes out on top, but just barely.

Which person is that towards? Please edit and use @ before whom your addressing so we know who your comparing to. If your saying the i7 I suggested, then your completely dead wrong in your assessment that a A-6 compared to a i7 and "comes out on top".

 

[Danbuscus25]

i was talking to OP, sorry. and the a-6 apu's have about equal cpu power with the pentiums OP posted, plus it has the IG part.

 

[Virginian17]

The Normal Rules of thumb with your request:
1) 17inch is pretty heavy, most people settle for a 15in then when 'home' they plug in the HDMI port to their LCD TV to work off of, just to offer a suggestion

2) 17inch increases the price that your gonna have to shop around to be under $500, and most likely won't get the best 'value for the money' normally because you have to compromise on other parts (not very obvious) in order to 'pay for' the larger screen
....

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all that. It helps a lot in knowing what to look for. I will have to do some thinking about what I really need this computer to do. The link to the notebook check site looks really useful, too.

I may post here again after I do some more looking around at options. What a great resource this site is. Thank you so much again for helping me.

 

[Virginian17]

ok, so i compared all the ones you posted with the one i posted. the last one you posted was almost equal with the one i posted, but not quite. it will probly get a slightly longer battery life, but the one i posted will give you more performance. and the intel pentium vs the a-6, the a-6 comes out on top, but just barely.

i was talking to OP, sorry. and the a-6 apu's have about equal cpu power with the pentiums OP posted, plus it has the IG part.

Thank you for the comparisons. I wondered about the graphics, so that's good to know. I am going to keep looking around. It is nice to know there is somewhere to come with questions.

 

[Danbuscus25]

no problem

 

[Tom Tancredi]

The Normal Rules of thumb with your request:
....

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all that. It helps a lot in knowing what to look for... Thank you so much again for helping me.

Your welcome, and please then pick as the solution to close the thread if you feel that was the best answer.

 

[Virginian17]

Thank you so much, Tom and Dan.

I do have one more question for you two or any other expert who may be reading. I may yet wait for a better deal that will actually handle games...but given these two options below, am I right in thinking that the second option below, the Windows 7 Gateway, would be the better computer? I am thinking that the processor is better, even if the Radeon card is a bit worse? Is that right? Is i5 better than quad core?

Gateway NE72206u
AMD A-Series A6-5200 2.0 GHz (2 MB Cache)
6 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
17.3-Inch Screen, AMD Radeon HD 8400 Graphics
Windows 8, 5-hour battery life

Gateway NV77H19U
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Display: 17.3-inch LCD Webcam: In-bezel Processor: 2.4GHz Intel Core i5-2430M Memory: 4GB DDR3 Hard drive: 500GB SATA Optical drive: DVD-RW Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6310 Audio: Integrated HD Audio Networking: 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Ports: 3 x USB 2.0, 1 x VGA, 1 x HDMI, 1 x microphone, 1 x Headphone Battery/power supply: 6-cell Lithium-Ion Color: Black Model: NV77H19u Included items: Gateway NV77H19u, Power Cord, AC Adapter Dimensions: 16.59 x 1.5 x 11 Weight: 7.27

Again, great thanks to you both and to all the experts here who help people like me through this confusing landscape of technology.

 

[Virginian17]

Wait... I wouldn't get any of those laptops. They are all incredibly slow and have questionable build quality at best. For that budget you can get a Lenovo G510 with a Core i3-4000M that would run circles around all of those for under $500, and Lenovo is a better brand than Gateway and Acer, especially in this price range.

So the Gateway Intel Core i5 is a bad choice? I am so confused...I thought I'd read that I should look for i3 or i5...Is it an earlier version or something? How can I tell which i3's or i5's are good, and which aren't? And the computer you cite here has integrated graphics, whereas the one I posted has a dedicated card. I guess I really just don't understand what I'm doing. I really, really appreciate the help. Could you possibly clarify a bit more why the option you gave is better, and how I can figure out these things as I look at computers?

Thanks again so much.

 

[Virginian17]

Yeah no problem.

First of all, Gateway doesn't exist anymore. Acer bought them out, whether their old products are even supported now is questionable.

The i5 in the Gateway laptop is a Core i5-2430M. The "2" in the 2430M means it is second generation. The laptop I linked you is an i3-4000M. The "4" in the 4000M means it's 4th generation. So the laptop that you are looking at is much, much older than the one I suggested

The 4th generation or "Haswell" core chips also have significantly improved on-processor graphics. They also are much more energy efficient and run cooler. Not to mention, they are faster than the previous generations. In this case, the i3 processor in the laptop I linked is faster than the i5 processor in the Gateway, even though i5 processors are supposed to be a higher line of processors.

Okay, that makes great sense. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This will clarify the search a great deal, knowing what those numbers actually mean and how to look for the newer versions in the numbers. I really, really appreciate your help.

 

[Tom Tancredi]

Personally I already provided a 'deal' with the i7 laptop that is 17" as you asked and shown it can play games to a known standard and meets your requirements. I am not sure why your insisting on trying to find 'trash' / way out of date hardware.

 

[Virginian17]

Personally I already provided a 'deal' with the i7 laptop that is 17" as you asked and shown it can play games to a known standard and meets your requirements. I am not sure why your insisting on trying to find 'trash' / way out of date hardware.

Hi Tom. I'm sorry my further questions made it sound like I was discarding your advice; I didn't mean to do that at all. I really do appreciate everything you have taught me in this thread, but I am obviously still at the beginning of my learning curve and in this case acted on a misunderstanding borne of my ignorance about CPU's. Someone I spoke with about CPU's before told me that i3 and i5 processors were good, and that i5's were even superior, and I assumed that general rule was confirmed by you in your first response to me, when you wrote:

"Your other options would be increase the amount of money to spend (actually double it) for a 17" Laptop that can game as well, OR drop down youe screen size (15" is fine) and you will have more options (i5 or i3 laptops) at the cost range you want. "

I got excited when I saw this second 17-inch Gateway with both an i5 processor *and* a dedicated graphics card, so I thought I would ask about it. I can see now how the phrasing of the question seemed to imply that I was still also considering the Gateway you'd already told me was crap....That was a mistake, and I'm sorry. Please don't think that I meant to ignore your advice...I am just slow to grasp all this and didn't realize that there are fast i5's and slow ones depending on the generation. I am very excited about the options you linked to.

This forum and all of you who volunteer time here are just wonderful; you are a tremendous resource for people like me who know little about computers. Please don't think I'm anything but very grateful for your patient help. Thanks again for your very comprehensive responses to my questions.

 

[Tom Tancredi]

Not a problem, and no it isn't necessarily "faster i5 or slower i5", it is the value of your dollar and what your paying for we are mainly warning against. Think of it this way, you want to buy a new car, but then find a couple of very low end cars to pick from and ask some other people. They take the time to try and point you in the right direction with some better option or give you choices to consider. What you instead is get excited about a car 10 years old (that gen of processor is about 3 or 4 years) , refurbished , no longer supported by the manufacturer and WAS a midgrade model car. Worse it is selling FOR THE SAME PRICE of a NEWER car that is more 'up to date', the engine performs much better, the overall quality is better, the newer model is a 'UpperClass' model car, but yes it doesn't have that one same exact thing as the 'older model' (the added GPU). It makes up for it in a different way but still 'limited' (this case the i7 and the link if you scrolled down was showing the FPS you get at the type of graphics level for each game listed) , but still comparing it to the old model, (put in that video card into that same website and see how the games come up on that one) it still ALOT better option.

That is basically what happened, even with the i3-4xxx option. Think of the generations that way, is it still supported by the maker, is it that many 'years ' old that well how will that affect me 3 or 4 years down the road? and so on. I hope this analogy helps you see the 'differences' that isn't a 'slower vs faster' idea you may have in your head.

 

[Virginian17]

Not a problem, and no it isn't necessarily "faster i5 or slower i5", it is the value of your dollar and what your paying for we are mainly warning against. Think of it this way, you want to buy a new car, but then find a couple of very low end cars to pick from and ask some other people. They take the time to try and point you in the right direction with some better option or give you choices to consider. What you instead is get excited about a car 10 years old (that gen of processor is about 3 or 4 years) , refurbished , no longer supported by the manufacturer and WAS a midgrade model car. Worse it is selling FOR THE SAME PRICE of a NEWER car that is more 'up to date', the engine performs much better, the overall quality is better, the newer model is a 'UpperClass' model car, but yes it doesn't have that one same exact thing as the 'older model' (the added GPU). It makes up for it in a different way but still 'limited' (this case the i7 and the link if you scrolled down was showing the FPS you get at the type of graphics level for each game listed) , but still comparing it to the old model, (put in that video card into that same website and see how the games come up on that one) it still ALOT better option.

That is basically what happened, even with the i3-4xxx option. Think of the generations that way, is it still supported by the maker, is it that many 'years ' old that well how will that affect me 3 or 4 years down the road? and so on. I hope this analogy helps you see the 'differences' that isn't a 'slower vs faster' idea you may have in your head.

It's a very helpful analogy. The whole machine counts. I guess it is tempting to hyperfocus on parts and try to establish rules in my head about them when first learning this computer landscape. Realizing the tremendous differences between an outdated and a new car, in so many ways, really helps to clarify what you were trying to get me to see.

Again, thanks so much for your help.