results are in. Satellites win, cable loses.

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As of March 31:

DirecTv 14,500,000

Dish 11,230,000

------------------------

Total 25,730,000


Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?
 
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Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
> As of March 31:
>
> DirecTv 14,500,000
>
> Dish 11,230,000
>
> ------------------------
>
> Total 25,730,000
>
> Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
> customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?

To be fair, a number of these cannot get cable. But you are right,
most would have stayed with cable if they were treated like they were valued.
Chip

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
 
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In article <20050505183403.420$GW@newsreader.com>,
cjdaytonjrnospam@cox.net wrote:

> Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > As of March 31:
> >
> > DirecTv 14,500,000
> >
> > Dish 11,230,000
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > Total 25,730,000
> >
> > Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
> > customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?
>
> To be fair, a number of these cannot get cable. But you are right,
> most would have stayed with cable if they were treated like they were valued.
> Chip

It's more often the other way around. Folks continue to suffer with
cable, because they cant get DirecTv.
 

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Or just maybe they want HDTV...where cable beats the hell out of dbs.


"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-6BBC4E.04481306052005@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <20050505183403.420$GW@newsreader.com>,
> cjdaytonjrnospam@cox.net wrote:
>
>> Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > As of March 31:
>> >
>> > DirecTv 14,500,000
>> >
>> > Dish 11,230,000
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> >
>> > Total 25,730,000
>> >
>> > Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
>> > customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?
>>
>> To be fair, a number of these cannot get cable. But you are right,
>> most would have stayed with cable if they were treated like they were
>> valued.
>> Chip
>
> It's more often the other way around. Folks continue to suffer with
> cable, because they cant get DirecTv.
 
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Not to mention On-Demand. Much nicer to be able to watch a movie or
program on your schedule rather than be forced to watch it on their
schedule. A fair amount of programming on On-Demand is Hi-Def, also.


CIAO!

Ed N.


curmudgeon wrote:
> Or just maybe they want HDTV...where cable beats the hell out of dbs.
>
>
 
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Not true, many cable co. have no HDTV
"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:zvJee.1323$yq3.163@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Or just maybe they want HDTV...where cable beats the hell out of dbs.
>
>
> "Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:jzwick3-6BBC4E.04481306052005@news1.west.earthlink.net...
>> In article <20050505183403.420$GW@newsreader.com>,
>> cjdaytonjrnospam@cox.net wrote:
>>
>>> Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> > As of March 31:
>>> >
>>> > DirecTv 14,500,000
>>> >
>>> > Dish 11,230,000
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Total 25,730,000
>>> >
>>> > Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
>>> > customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?
>>>
>>> To be fair, a number of these cannot get cable. But you are right,
>>> most would have stayed with cable if they were treated like they were
>>> valued.
>>> Chip
>>
>> It's more often the other way around. Folks continue to suffer with
>> cable, because they cant get DirecTv.
>
>
 
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In article <mqqdnTIugOYh8ObfRVn-vA@comcast.com>, Ed Nielsen
<egnlsn@comcast.net> wrote:

> Not to mention On-Demand. Much nicer to be able to watch a movie or
> program on your schedule rather than be forced to watch it on their
> schedule. A fair amount of programming on On-Demand is Hi-Def, also.


No one has *had* to watch anything on anyone else's schedule for about
25 years now.

You x-posted to a TiVo group, where time-shifting is beyond routine.
There might be some potential benefit in being able to record something
you missed by using On Demand, but the tradeoff -- having to deal with
cable -- is not worth it to me.

The hi-def issue will narrow as more sats go online.
 
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Ed Nielsen (egnlsn@comcast.net) wrote in rec.video.satellite.dbs:
> Not to mention On-Demand. Much nicer to be able to watch a movie or
> program on your schedule rather than be forced to watch it on their
> schedule.

I do this with all my DirecTV programming by using a DirecTiVo...

> A fair amount of programming on On-Demand is Hi-Def, also.

....and it's an HD DirecTiVo, so I get this, too.

I've never understood why cable companies waste so much bandwidth with
VOD when distributing DVRs to all their customers would do the same thing
for them. People wouldn't even have to program their DVRs...they could
be set up to record *all* of what is in the "On-Demand" list and have it
right there. It would be differerent if VOD wasn't free with your cable
subscription.

I guess the only answer is that cable DVRs don't work as well as cable VOD.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/ToDo.gif
 

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On Fri, 6 May 2005 11:08:42 -0400, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

>Ed Nielsen (egnlsn@comcast.net) wrote in rec.video.satellite.dbs:
>> Not to mention On-Demand. Much nicer to be able to watch a movie or
>> program on your schedule rather than be forced to watch it on their
>> schedule.
>
>I do this with all my DirecTV programming by using a DirecTiVo...
>
>> A fair amount of programming on On-Demand is Hi-Def, also.
>
>...and it's an HD DirecTiVo, so I get this, too.
>
>I've never understood why cable companies waste so much bandwidth with
>VOD when distributing DVRs to all their customers would do the same thing
>for them. People wouldn't even have to program their DVRs...they could
>be set up to record *all* of what is in the "On-Demand" list and have it
>right there. It would be differerent if VOD wasn't free with your cable
>subscription.
>
>I guess the only answer is that cable DVRs don't work as well as cable VOD.

Wrong.

I have the Comcast 2 tuner DVR and it's great. The VOD is a bonus. And
the VOD is not all free. There are pay movies/events in VOD too.

To say that distributing DVR's is the same as VOD is to show a severe
ignorance about VOD. Have you ever actually seen it? It's more than
just a schedule of TV shows. For example, there are short 9-15 minute
instructional videos for things like boating and golf. Please let us
all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
Sailing" on our DVR's.

Geeze Jeffie. Pull you head out of you ass before you post.

Sean
 
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In article <zvJee.1323$yq3.163@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote:

> Or just maybe they want HDTV...where cable beats the hell out of dbs.

Hardly, but often it has a lower front end cost.


>
>
> "Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:jzwick3-6BBC4E.04481306052005@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> > In article <20050505183403.420$GW@newsreader.com>,
> > cjdaytonjrnospam@cox.net wrote:
> >
> >> Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> > As of March 31:
> >> >
> >> > DirecTv 14,500,000
> >> >
> >> > Dish 11,230,000
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Total 25,730,000
> >> >
> >> > Comcast, Warner, Cox, Charter and friends have scared away 25 million
> >> > customers, what's that: 60 million viewers?
> >>
> >> To be fair, a number of these cannot get cable. But you are right,
> >> most would have stayed with cable if they were treated like they were
> >> valued.
> >> Chip
> >
> > It's more often the other way around. Folks continue to suffer with
> > cable, because they cant get DirecTv.
 
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In article <060520051023195204%affable@no.com.invalid>,
"Dr. Personality" <affable@no.com.invalid> wrote:

> In article <mqqdnTIugOYh8ObfRVn-vA@comcast.com>, Ed Nielsen
> <egnlsn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Not to mention On-Demand. Much nicer to be able to watch a movie or
> > program on your schedule rather than be forced to watch it on their
> > schedule. A fair amount of programming on On-Demand is Hi-Def, also.
>
>
> No one has *had* to watch anything on anyone else's schedule for about
> 25 years now.
>
> You x-posted to a TiVo group, where time-shifting is beyond routine.
> There might be some potential benefit in being able to record something
> you missed by using On Demand, but the tradeoff -- having to deal with
> cable -- is not worth it to me.
>
> The hi-def issue will narrow as more sats go online.

DirecTv has already successfully launched the first of 3 birds targeted
for HDTV this year.
 
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(Sean <none>) wrote in rec.video.satellite.dbs:
> To say that distributing DVR's is the same as VOD is to show a severe
> ignorance about VOD. Have you ever actually seen it? It's more than
> just a schedule of TV shows. For example, there are short 9-15 minute
> instructional videos for things like boating and golf. Please let us
> all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
> Sailing" on our DVR's.

If the cable company just set up 10 channels that sent the VOD stuff around
the clock, DVRs would record it just fine.

There's nothing magical about VOD from the cable company. When you request
it, your box gets assigned a dynamically assigned channel number to tune to.
Anybody that can tune to that channel will see the VOD stream. Other STBs
think the channel doesn't exist because they haven't been told about it,
but PC HDTV cards can see it just fine.

By distributing DVRs (which they are trying to do anyway), the cable company
could have saved all the money for the *huge* bandwidth needed for VOD. If
as few as 25% of customers try to play VOD at the same time, it will fail
because there isn't enough bandwidth. Wouldn't it be nice if they took that
bandwidth and gave you 100 more channels (or 20 more HD channels)?

Even PPV VOD could be downloaded to *every* DVR. You just wouldn't pay
for it unless you tried to watch it. As far as the user would be concerned,
the interface would be exactly the same as today...the only difference is
where the video is stored.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/BrokenInternet02.gif
 

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* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> Please let us
> all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
> Sailing" on our DVR's.


I bet that one gets viewed 2x a week. If you have to watch a 11 minute
instructional video on how to sail in Heavy Weather I am sure the Coast
Guard would rather you kept your fat ass on the couch.

And I am sure that Golf instructional has you becoming a regualr Jack
Nicholas in 9 minutes. Just becasue it has something that Tivo/Sat
doesnt, dosent make it better or even useful which is why they turned
to Tivo, so they would program what the consumer wants instead of
usless garbage. My friend was bragging all about VOD....until he got a
DVR.

--
David
 

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On Fri, 06 May 2005 16:54:29 GMT, SINNER
<arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:

>* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> Please let us
>> all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
>> Sailing" on our DVR's.
>
>
>I bet that one gets viewed 2x a week. If you have to watch a 11 minute
>instructional video on how to sail in Heavy Weather I am sure the Coast
>Guard would rather you kept your fat ass on the couch.
>

Man. The ignorance on this Tivo NG is too much. As much as I'd like to
ignore this group, swatting around dolts like Davey is too much fun.

As a matter of fact Davey, the video on heavy weather sailing was very
good. There was a nice discussion on the changing stresses on the Rig
at various points in reefing sails and the potential repurcussions.

Since you're such an expert, why don't you give us the readers digest
version of that subject? Or are you better suited to just posting to
usenet while sitting your fat ass on your couch?


>And I am sure that Golf instructional has you becoming a regualr Jack
>Nicholas in 9 minutes.

Another subject you know nothing about. I guess those hours + hours +
hours + hours + hours of instructional programming on the golf channel
are just a waste. I'm sure when you get put in charge of programming,
they'll replace them with something usefull.


>Just becasue it has something that Tivo/Sat
>doesnt,

Well, welcome to the subject being discussed. VOD is in fact something
cable has and sattelite doesn't. You finally said something that isn't
moronic.

>dosent make it better or even useful which is why they turned
>to Tivo, so they would program what the consumer wants instead of
>usless garbage. My friend was bragging all about VOD....until he got a
>DVR.


Bully for your friend. I use my VOD a lot. It's a nice thing to have
IN ADDITION to a dvr. You Tivo/sat rumpswabs have no idea what you're
missing.

Sean
 
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(Sean <none>) wrote in rec.video.satellite.dbs:
> if, if, if. How about talking about the way things are? You posted
> about VOD which you obviously don't know much about.

Yeah, right. Other than some being PPV (none here is...it's all free
if you subscribe to the source channel), everything the local Comcast does
is the same as you describe. And, they spent a boatload of money on
bandwidth, and now they are going to spend a boatload of money on getting
their DVR service up to the quality that people expect. Luckily, they
can just pass it on to their customers with their twice-yearly 10% price
increase.

> Spare me your theories on how it could be dopne better. I'm sure
> Cable executives will be contacting you soon to redo their VOD
> business plan.

No, but they might be contacting DirecTV, who will be doing their version
of "VOD" using DVR devices. Or, they might be contacting TiVo, because
TiVo already has the concept of "hidden" videos built in...the VOD could
be stored there. So, maybe Comcast will call TiVo soon and make a deal
to use that sort of technology...oh, wait, they already did.

--
Jeff Rife | "I'll be back in five or six days."
|
| "No, you'll be back in five or six pieces."
| -- "The Lost World"
 
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In article <Xns964E7922E5136Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130>,
SINNER <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:

> * Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
> > Please let us
> > all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
> > Sailing" on our DVR's.
>
>
> I bet that one gets viewed 2x a week. If you have to watch a 11 minute
> instructional video on how to sail in Heavy Weather I am sure the Coast
> Guard would rather you kept your fat ass on the couch.
>
> And I am sure that Golf instructional has you becoming a regualr Jack
> Nicholas in 9 minutes. Just becasue it has something that Tivo/Sat
> doesnt, dosent make it better or even useful which is why they turned
> to Tivo, so they would program what the consumer wants instead of
> usless garbage. My friend was bragging all about VOD....until he got a
> DVR.
>
> --
> David

50 million viewers of Satellite cant be wrong.
 

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On Fri, 06 May 2005 18:39:52 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com>
wrote:

>In article <Xns964E7922E5136Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130>,
> SINNER <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:
>
>> * Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>>
>> > Please let us
>> > all know where we can record that 11 minute show on "Heavy Weather
>> > Sailing" on our DVR's.
>>
>>
>> I bet that one gets viewed 2x a week. If you have to watch a 11 minute
>> instructional video on how to sail in Heavy Weather I am sure the Coast
>> Guard would rather you kept your fat ass on the couch.
>>
>> And I am sure that Golf instructional has you becoming a regualr Jack
>> Nicholas in 9 minutes. Just becasue it has something that Tivo/Sat
>> doesnt, dosent make it better or even useful which is why they turned
>> to Tivo, so they would program what the consumer wants instead of
>> usless garbage. My friend was bragging all about VOD....until he got a
>> DVR.
>>
>> --
>> David
>
>50 million viewers of Satellite cant be wrong.

I guess that means 154 million (as of 2003) viewers of cable are
wrong.

Rather than take a Tivo/Sat rumpswab dolt like Jackies word for this,
let's look at some official data from

http://uspirg.org/uspirg.asp?id2=10531&id3=USPIRG&


Although cable operators argue that they face serious competition from
the nation's two Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS) providers, data
compiled by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) also confirm
that DBS, while growing in subscribers, appeals primarily to limited
subsets of consumers, and is unable to restrain cable's prices charged
to consumers at large.

....

This failure of DBS to restrain cable prices also reflects the fact
that DBS is popular primarily at two edges of the market - in rural
areas where there is no cable service at all, and among the minority
of consumers that are willing to pay stiff premiums to receive large
numbers of sports channels. DBS also has serious shortcomings that
limit its appeal to many cable subscribers. DBS cannot reach many
urban customers who lack a direct line of sight to the southern sky,
and dishes are often difficult to install in the multifamily dwelling
units that house approximately 30 percent of the U.S. population. DBS
is still not able to offer local broadcast channels in many markets.
Surveys indicate that 47 percent of cable subscribers would not
subscribe to satellite service for that reason alone. DBS is also
unable to offer customers the same bundles as cable operators,
including telephone services, and has been extremely slow in offering
efficient two-way high-speed Internet access services. Making matters
worse, as the major cable operators have completed their nationwide
upgrades to digital facilities, DBS loses the quality advantage it
previously could offer to lure high-end subscribers.


Lots more good real data instead of gibberish from Jackie the moron.

Sean
 

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* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> As a matter of fact Davey, the video on heavy weather sailing was
> very good. There was a nice discussion on the changing stresses on
> the Rig at various points in reefing sails and the potential
> repurcussions.

Which you should already be well aware of if you spent anytime at all
in a sailboat. If you havent, that video would get you in more
trouble than its worth. Like I said, Useless.

>
> Since you're such an expert, why don't you give us the readers
> digest version of that subject? Or are you better suited to just
> posting to usenet while sitting your fat ass on your couch?

Because then I would be liable, just like Comcast s/b for telling
inexperinced sailers, hey its easy and you to can be a quality salor
in 10 minutes, no thanks. The virtues and how to's of sailing are
best left to those that undestand it rather than regurgitata as youve
done above.

Its basically Jackass for wannabe sailors, no wonder you enjoyed it.

>
>
>>And I am sure that Golf instructional has you becoming a regualr
>>Jack Nicholas in 9 minutes.
>
> Another subject you know nothing about.

How the hell would you know? Whats your handicap shawnie boi?

> I guess those hours +
> hours + hours + hours + hours of instructional programming on the
> golf channel are just a waste.

So are the hours and hours of Bass Fishing instructional videos, your
point? You cant learn to golf sitting on the coah you moron.

> I'm sure when you get put in charge
> of programming, they'll replace them with something usefull.
>

And when you do, they will be going under.

>
>>Just becasue it has something that Tivo/Sat
>>doesnt,
>
> Well, welcome to the subject being discussed. VOD is in fact
> something cable has and sattelite doesn't.

Like I said, So? Your DVR dosent have wishlists, shall we get into
that pissing contest? Probably not since you have to sit when you pee
it probably wont go far.

>
>>dosent make it better or even useful which is why they turned
>>to Tivo, so they would program what the consumer wants instead of
>>usless garbage. My friend was bragging all about VOD....until he
>>got a DVR.
>
>
> Bully for your friend. I use my VOD a lot.

Bully for you.

> It's a nice thing to
> have IN ADDITION to a dvr.

Its useless, just like that free space indicator you so desperately
desire.

--
David
 

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On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:21:36 GMT, SINNER
<arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:

>* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> As a matter of fact Davey, the video on heavy weather sailing was
>> very good. There was a nice discussion on the changing stresses on
>> the Rig at various points in reefing sails and the potential
>> repurcussions.
>
>Which you should already be well aware of if you spent anytime at all
>in a sailboat. If you havent, that video would get you in more
>trouble than its worth. Like I said, Useless.
>

Go ahead Mr. Expert. let's hear your take on this. It's so simple
after all.




>Like I said, So? Your DVR dosent have wishlists, shall we get into
>that pissing contest? Probably not since you have to sit when you pee
>it probably wont go far.
>

Maybe you can just reread that looonnnnggg thread where others were
bitching about how useless the wishlist "feature" is.



Sean
 

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* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> http://uspirg.org/uspirg.asp?id2=10531&id3=USPIRG&

August 2003!

Yeah, nothing has changed since then...

--
David
 
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