shooting in gymnasium

ross

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I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
Ross
 
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ross wrote:

> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
> Ross

Gymnasiums can be tough.. They're usually lit with high pressure mercury
bulbs or something similar that emit a light that the 'canned' white balance
settings in the camera can't cope with.

You don't say what camera, but if you have the ability to shoot RAW, use that.
Once you get the images home, you can choose a white point in the image and
then vary the color temperature to get it looking the most natural. This is the
best way to do it.

Another option is to use custom white balance if your camera has it.
This allows you to take a shot of something white or neutral grey and
then tell your camera's white balance to compensate for that. This
function varies by camera. If you have this feature, the details will be
explained in the user manual.

Other than that it's a matter of finding the best white balance and then
adjusting the color in your image editor. I'd try tungsten or flourescent
then adding a bit of blue to the resulting JPEGs.

If you're up close and they don't mind you using a flash, the fill from
the flash will somewhat alleviate the color cast created by the gym lights.
 
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"ross" <rosmd@everestkc.net> wrote in message
news:T_Etd.12676$QJ2.7259@fe39.usenetserver.com...
>I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
>cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
>perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
>Ross
>

Sometimes, lights in gyms have an unusual color profile, such as mercury
lamps. Your eye/brain together adjust to the odd lighting fairly well, but
electronic devices haven't caught up yet. Your best bet may be a good image
editing program that lets you adjust colors flexibly. I use Paint Shop Pro,
and its Adjust Color Balance command brings up a menu where you can click on
Remove Color Cast.
 
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> I probably should have stated a little more clearly... don't rely on the
> camera to fix your settings automatically for you. Figure out (after some
> googl'ing and examining of your scene) which colour temperature to use,
and
> set it manually.
> I'm a big fan of doing everything as manually as possible. I just wish
they
> made split-ring focusing systems for newer cameras :(

Too true! What I want is a Oly OM2 with a digital back. But, for the OP...If
the speed and space is not an issue then shooting RAW will solve your
problems. Otherwise....set a manual white balance...or see www.warmcards.com
 
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"Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in
news:NTFtd.1$t44.0@trndny03:

>> I probably should have stated a little more clearly... don't rely on
>> the camera to fix your settings automatically for you. Figure out
>> (after some googl'ing and examining of your scene) which colour
>> temperature to use,
> and
>> set it manually.
>> I'm a big fan of doing everything as manually as possible. I just
>> wish
> they
>> made split-ring focusing systems for newer cameras :(
>
> Too true! What I want is a Oly OM2 with a digital back. But, for the
> OP...If the speed and space is not an issue then shooting RAW will
> solve your problems. Otherwise....set a manual white balance...or see
> www.warmcards.com

Raw solving problems? Howso? Wouldn't the colour still be off?

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ross wrote:
> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
> gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
> picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate
> this newsgroup. Dick Ross

This can be a tough one. Each gym can be different.

I would suggest you start by checking your camera manual and look at the
white balance features. See if you can get somewhere there. Some cameras
offer little and some offer a great deal of control.

A second approach is the use of a filter. Before you can chose a
filter, you need to know what kind of lights are used. You will generally
find one of three.

* Incandescent lights are like your standard home light bulbs, They come
in several flavors (color temperatures) but they are easy to adjust or
filter for.

* Fluorescencet lamps are not quite as good, but you can usually got good
results with the white balance adjustment and or filters. They also come in
several flavors.

* Finally you have a group of gas discharge lamps. These are the most
common in gyms. They also come in a number of flavors. Some are very
difficult to correct and some not too bad.

+ The mercury types are much like the typical bluish looking freeway
lights. This is the most common. Not too bad when adjusted properly.

+ The sodium types (high pressure and low pressure) are also used on
freeways. One appears a yellowish orange and the other very orange. You
are most likely to see the first in a gym. They are difficult to correct
for, but if you filter and or white balance well, you should not be too far
off. The problem is they have large parts of the spectrum missing. So
colors to you, to film and to sensors look odd, even when adjusted. You
can't totally fix this one. This is also the one you are likely talking
about. You can try a filter made for sodium (high pressure) or try white
balance changes and I believe you will get a lot of improvement. It should
be OK for the work you are doing, but it would not be good for portrait
work.

Good Luck

--
Joseph Meehan (not the photo-lighting author)

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
 
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ross wrote:

> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
> Ross
>
Mention your camera make and flash set up and you'll get better answers.

As for PS, I'd suggest going to Layers->new Adj. layer-> Curves. Then
select each color channel and bump up or down until it looks right on
your monitor (which is calibrated, yes?). Then save the Adj. curve and
apply it to all the shots in that gym.

If your camera allows, do a custom white balance for those shot situations.

==
John McWilliams
 

hunt

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In article <rBGtd.33035$CG4.15662@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com says...
>
>ross wrote:
>> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
>> gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
>> picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate
>> this newsgroup. Dick Ross
>
> This can be a tough one. Each gym can be different.
>
> I would suggest you start by checking your camera manual and look at the
>white balance features. See if you can get somewhere there. Some cameras
>offer little and some offer a great deal of control.
>
> A second approach is the use of a filter. Before you can chose a
>filter, you need to know what kind of lights are used. You will generally
>find one of three.
>
> * Incandescent lights are like your standard home light bulbs, They come
>in several flavors (color temperatures) but they are easy to adjust or
>filter for.
>
> * Fluorescencet lamps are not quite as good, but you can usually got good
>results with the white balance adjustment and or filters. They also come in
>several flavors.
>
> * Finally you have a group of gas discharge lamps. These are the most
>common in gyms. They also come in a number of flavors. Some are very
>difficult to correct and some not too bad.
>
> + The mercury types are much like the typical bluish looking freeway
>lights. This is the most common. Not too bad when adjusted properly.
>
> + The sodium types (high pressure and low pressure) are also used on
>freeways. One appears a yellowish orange and the other very orange. You
>are most likely to see the first in a gym. They are difficult to correct
>for, but if you filter and or white balance well, you should not be too far
>off. The problem is they have large parts of the spectrum missing. So
>colors to you, to film and to sensors look odd, even when adjusted. You
>can't totally fix this one. This is also the one you are likely talking
>about. You can try a filter made for sodium (high pressure) or try white
>balance changes and I believe you will get a lot of improvement. It should
>be OK for the work you are doing, but it would not be good for portrait
>work.
>
> Good Luck
>
>--
>Joseph Meehan (not the photo-lighting author)

Joseph, you are right-on in the above observations and recommendations. Also,
many gyms have banks of "skylights" either high on the wall, or even in the
ceiling. If it light outside, you have high K temp skylight to deal with also.
I've found that the best is to do as you say, set overall White Balance, shoot
RAW, and work a bit more on the exact correction, then use Masks, and
Adjustment Layers in PS for those areas where you cannot dial it in, or in the
areas where you have the incomplete-spectrum vapor lights. In my case, I'm
shooting architectural, and not sports in these places, so it's easier to make
minute adjustments for the interior, than if one is trying to shoot the actual
activities.

Hunt
 
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>>>>>I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
>>>>>gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
>>>>>picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop?

I use a point and shoot, and my gymnasium pics are hoary too--but (digital
darkroom experts cringe now) I've got a quick & dirty program (ICorrect)
where you pull up the picture, which is automatically made more vivid by
black point/white point adustment, and then you click once on a neutral area
(I usually use the white basketball backboard) and the entire picture looks
bright and clean and vivid (the program automatically analyzes the color
profiles and modifies the picture in assumption that the area you clicked on
should be truly grey or white). In truth--it is probably TOO pure and white
and stark--but it sure beats dingy, muddy, and dank! And people who see
the pics (again, these are point and shoot pics) are really impressed. This
is WAY too quick and dirty for experienced Photoshop users, but it only
takes a few seconds if you are just looking for something very acceptable.
 
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Douglas W. Hoyt wrote:
>
> >>>>>I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
> >>>>>gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
> >>>>>picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop?
>
> I use a point and shoot, and my gymnasium pics are hoary too--but (digital
> darkroom experts cringe now) I've got a quick & dirty program (ICorrect)

fabulous program.
i use it outside of photoshop, in batch mode.
for 200 or 400 images, batch beats everything.

> where you pull up the picture, which is automatically made more vivid by
> black point/white point adustment, and then you click once on a neutral area
> (I usually use the white basketball backboard) and the entire picture looks
> bright and clean and vivid (the program automatically analyzes the color
> profiles and modifies the picture in assumption that the area you clicked on
> should be truly grey or white). In truth--it is probably TOO pure and white
> and stark--but it sure beats dingy, muddy, and dank! And people who see
> the pics (again, these are point and shoot pics) are really impressed. This
> is WAY too quick and dirty for experienced Photoshop users, but it only
> takes a few seconds if you are just looking for something very acceptable.
 
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Hunt wrote:
> In article <rBGtd.33035$CG4.15662@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
> sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com says...
>>
>> ross wrote:
>>> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
>>> gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
>>> picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate
>>> this newsgroup. Dick Ross
>>
>> This can be a tough one. Each gym can be different.
>>
>> I would suggest you start by checking your camera manual and look
>> at the white balance features. See if you can get somewhere there.
>> Some cameras offer little and some offer a great deal of control.
>>
>> A second approach is the use of a filter. Before you can chose a
>> filter, you need to know what kind of lights are used. You will
>> generally find one of three.
>>
>> * Incandescent lights are like your standard home light bulbs,
>> They come in several flavors (color temperatures) but they are easy
>> to adjust or filter for.
>>
>> * Fluorescencet lamps are not quite as good, but you can usually
>> got good results with the white balance adjustment and or filters.
>> They also come in several flavors.
>>
>> * Finally you have a group of gas discharge lamps. These are the
>> most common in gyms. They also come in a number of flavors. Some
>> are very difficult to correct and some not too bad.
>>
>> + The mercury types are much like the typical bluish looking
>> freeway lights. This is the most common. Not too bad when adjusted
>> properly.
>>
>> + The sodium types (high pressure and low pressure) are also
>> used on freeways. One appears a yellowish orange and the other very
>> orange. You are most likely to see the first in a gym. They are
>> difficult to correct for, but if you filter and or white balance
>> well, you should not be too far off. The problem is they have large
>> parts of the spectrum missing. So colors to you, to film and to
>> sensors look odd, even when adjusted. You can't totally fix this
>> one. This is also the one you are likely talking about. You can
>> try a filter made for sodium (high pressure) or try white balance
>> changes and I believe you will get a lot of improvement. It should
>> be OK for the work you are doing, but it would not be good for
>> portrait work.
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Meehan (not the photo-lighting author)
>
> Joseph, you are right-on in the above observations and
> recommendations. Also, many gyms have banks of "skylights" either
> high on the wall, or even in the ceiling. If it light outside, you
> have high K temp skylight to deal with also. I've found that the best
> is to do as you say, set overall White Balance, shoot RAW, and work a
> bit more on the exact correction, then use Masks, and Adjustment
> Layers in PS for those areas where you cannot dial it in, or in the
> areas where you have the incomplete-spectrum vapor lights. In my
> case, I'm shooting architectural, and not sports in these places, so
> it's easier to make minute adjustments for the interior, than if one
> is trying to shoot the actual activities.
>
> Hunt

I agree and this is one of the few times I would bother with RAW.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
 
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ross wrote:
> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
> Ross
>
>
>

This reply is completely off topic, but you have to wonder if the
subject line raised any red flags in the FBIs Internet monitoring
software when viewed without the context of this newsgroup...

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. To jump to the end
of the story, as a result of this I need a bone marrow transplant. Many
people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 

hunt

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In article <41b75e87$1@quokka.wn.com.au>, spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com says...
>
>ross wrote:
>> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
>> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
>> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
>> Ross
>>
>>
>>
>
>This reply is completely off topic, but you have to wonder if the
>subject line raised any red flags in the FBIs Internet monitoring
>software when viewed without the context of this newsgroup...

Quite possibly. Years ago, I had to get security clearance to photograph
Richard M Nixon, who was no longer President (US). I'd been cleared to
photograph Carter and Ford, so I thought nothing of calling up the Secret
Service to basically get my credentials updated. I made the mistake of stating
that I needed security clearance to "shoot President Nixon," and was met with
complete silence. I realized my error and gave a full explanation, but found
out that the person on the other end of the line had NO sense of humor. Even
with my mis-statement, I got credentialed, but still recall that call. I
learned to re-phrase things and not use photo-jargon, when talking to non-
photo types.

Hunt
 
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noone@hunt.com (Hunt) wrote in news:cp7r8s41e5@news3.newsguy.com:

> In article <41b75e87$1@quokka.wn.com.au>, spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com
> says...
>>
>>ross wrote:
>>> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or
>>> gold cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better
>>> picture or perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate
>>> this newsgroup. Dick Ross
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>This reply is completely off topic, but you have to wonder if the
>>subject line raised any red flags in the FBIs Internet monitoring
>>software when viewed without the context of this newsgroup...
>
> Quite possibly. Years ago, I had to get security clearance to
> photograph Richard M Nixon, who was no longer President (US). I'd been
> cleared to photograph Carter and Ford, so I thought nothing of calling
> up the Secret Service to basically get my credentials updated. I made
> the mistake of stating that I needed security clearance to "shoot
> President Nixon," and was met with complete silence. I realized my
> error and gave a full explanation, but found out that the person on
> the other end of the line had NO sense of humor. Even with my
> mis-statement, I got credentialed, but still recall that call. I
> learned to re-phrase things and not use photo-jargon, when talking to
> non- photo types.

Do you have copies of any of those we could have a peek at?

--
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ross wrote:

> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
> Ross

I frequently shoot pics at indoor locations, like churches, with a 300D, and
had white balance poblems. Trouble is, in Photoshop, while you can alter the
color balance, getting it right is not always a simple task, specially if there
is no significant neutral tone to go by.

Here's how I overcame most of the problem. First, I shoot a white card (well
out of focus) I carry for the purpose, and do a custom white balance using that
image. Then after the custom white balance is done, I shoot the card again.
That shot should be, but is not always, neutral grey. I then go ahead with the
shots I am taking in that environment, using the custom wb setting.

Later, in Photoshop, I load the image I want to process, and I also load the
second of the white balance shots, the one taken after the custom wb was done.
Next, I increase the canvas size of the target image by a couple of cms on one
side, so as to get an area outside the image itself. Then using the marquee
tool, I select a small piece of the wb image, move it into the blank area of
the target canvas, and then flatten the layers.

Now, using the Curves tool, select the middle eyedropper, place it on the piece
of the wb image in the canvas area of the target image, and click the mouse.
The middle eyedropper tool will convert the color under the dropper to neutral
grey, and will balance the entire image at the same time. You can then crop
the image to lose the bit of canvas you introduced. Actually, if there is room
in the target image due to intended cropping, you can put the grey bit in an
area to be cropped, and dispense with the canvas expansion.

This works because any residual imbalance due to the lighting is recorded on
the second white card shot, and the color shift to render that image to grey is
also the color shift you need to balance the actual image(s).

I haven't tried it, but this technique should work for scanned film as well,
where daylight film is used under artificial light.

Colin.
 
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On 8 Dec 2004 21:21:32 GMT, noone@hunt.com (Hunt) wrote:

>In article <41b75e87$1@quokka.wn.com.au>, spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com says...
>>
>>ross wrote:
>>> I am shooting photos in a gymnasium and I typically get a yellow or gold
>>> cast to everything. Any suggestions about how to get a better picture or
>>> perhaps improving the pic with Photoshop? I appreciate this newsgroup. Dick
>>> Ross
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>This reply is completely off topic, but you have to wonder if the
>>subject line raised any red flags in the FBIs Internet monitoring
>>software when viewed without the context of this newsgroup...
>
>Quite possibly. Years ago, I had to get security clearance to photograph
>Richard M Nixon, who was no longer President (US). I'd been cleared to
>photograph Carter and Ford, so I thought nothing of calling up the Secret
>Service to basically get my credentials updated. I made the mistake of stating
>that I needed security clearance to "shoot President Nixon," and was met with
>complete silence. I realized my error and gave a full explanation, but found
>out that the person on the other end of the line had NO sense of humor.

It's a requirement for any government job. In Mineta airport
in San Jose, CA, they even have signs explicitly saying they have no
sense of humor. And those signs were displayed well before 9/11.

> Even
>with my mis-statement, I got credentialed, but still recall that call. I
>learned to re-phrase things and not use photo-jargon, when talking to non-
>photo types.
>
>Hunt
 
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