Urgent "Repasting" question

[abdullah_mag]

So i have this alienware laptop, and on the GPU there is no Thermal paste/grease, the OEM uses these sticky pads (flat strips, sticky on both sides, exactly the size of the components).

In the past i've had 2 GPUs die, the first was due to an assembly error which resulted in a screw landing on the GPU and causing it to short circuit, and was replaced under warranty, the second time was due to these sticky pads drying out on the GPU dye, this time i had to pay for the new GPU myself but the people who replaced and fitted it again were different.

Now i want to replace these thermal strips/pads just as a precaution, but i can't find replacements anywhere and the guys who replaced the GPU for me before cannot procure a new one, i have no experience in applying thermal paste/grease and neither do they, and i don't wanna fiddle around with a $570 GPU on my first try, so i'm stuck here and i don't know what to do.

The precaustions i've taken since my last GPU replacement (7 months ago) were using nvidia inspector to limit my frames per second to 50~55 max instead of leaving it open all the time, i always keep the laptop dust free by cleaning the fans and heatsink (like twice a month), i ALWAYS monitor my temperatures to see if anything is out of the ordinary (thankfully nothing is so far), and i routinely check on the thermal pads to check if they're drying out, but i cannot check on the thermal pad sitting on the GPU dye and i don't wanna decouple the heatsink from the GPU to check as this will create air bubbles which won't seal again and will ruin the thermal conductivity between the GPU and heatsink.

So to the actual question now, Should i be worried about these pads giving up on me in a moment's notice??, do i really need to be chasing after a fresh set of stickies???, or am i just too paranoid??

 

[Lutfij]

Did you follow up on the procedures during dis-assembly and assembly?
https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP4myeDK-3U

https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITj5XV7XimU <- since it deals with your GPU in particular but look through both guides.
^ thermal pads can be found in the link in the video description. Since you mentioned the thermal pads drying out, have you brought up the issue with the guys at Dell(Alienware)?

 

[abdullah_mag]

I know my laptop inside out, i've partially disassembled it before and i always follow the user manual and tutorial videos, this time i'm just too cautious because there's potentially a large amount of money at risk if i should fail or don't pay attention to signs of problems.

The main thing i wanted by this thread is straightforward answers to the few questions i put at the end of the original post.

All help is appreciated though, and i thank you for that.

 

[Lutfij]

The main thing i wanted by this thread is straightforward answers to the few questions i put at the end of the original post.

So to the actual question now, Should i be worried about these pads giving up on me in a moment's notice??, do i really need to be chasing after a fresh set of stickies???, or am i just too paranoid??

Akhi, having a spare set of thermal pads at hand is a good thing if you know your laptop inside-out and know for a fact that they are (under your observation) running dry. Thermal pads come in varying thicknesses and if you don't get the correct thickness you either end up with:
a| dry thermal pads
+
b| a VRM or mosfet(power regulator) not making contact with your cooler/heatpipe.

With a+b that does lead you to wonder that the heat from the power regulators aren't being transported to the cooler heatpipe assembly and efficiently thrown to the outside of your chassis so that leads me to assume that the high temps are due to the heat build up produced from your VRM's that aren't contacting the cooler. This may also explain why you see favorable temps when you limit your GPU load.

Now if you have access to good thermal pads make sure they are of the right thickness or if you're going to go all out and ship it from abroad then might as well look into Fujipoly thermal pads - they are the cream of the crop thermal pads and perform very well. There is another side to the advice though, how much more do you want to invest in it? You've dropped a good amount into it by now and the best thing you should do is leave it as is as any further investments may just give negative returns i.e dead lappy.

there's potentially a large amount of money at risk if i should fail or don't pay attention to signs of problems.

That doesn't give us much confidence to hear that from you as we're only capable of directing you via text in order to resolve any/all issues. You've also stated that the people in your locality aren't competent at working with your hardware - so if you may, habibi, what sort of an advice can I provide to give you ease at heart ?

All help is appreciated though, and i thank you for that.

Afwan - You're welcome but you seem frustrated at not getting a clear answer.

 

[abdullah_mag]

Thank you for the reply.

The main reason why i asked these questions was to determine whether i should be vigorously pursuing a fresh set of pads starting Right Now, or there is still plenty of life in my current ones and i'm just worrying too much.

I have contacted the guys who got me my last card and asked them to get me a new set of pads or supply me with a solution and hopefully they will reply, but the last time i asked them for these pads they took 3 months and they still hadn't arrived (they are dell subsidiary) and probably never will, so in the end, when the lappy starts showing signs of drying pads, i'll stop using it and look into those fujipoly ones.

The help i'd want now though is help determining the thickness, dimensions, and type of pads to order, and which ones to apply where on the gpu.

Just to make sure, the laptop is an alienware m17x r4 with an nvidia gtx 675m.

 

[Lutfij]

You're very welcome but we're not out of the woods yet, bro, we've only touched up on possible causes for the issue.

I found this through a quick search:
http/forum.notebookreview.com/threads/thermal-pads-for-m17x-r4s-gpu-gtx-680m.693341/

Since I don't own the laptop nor have I worked on one the R4 seems very similar internally to the R3 and going by the above linked thread I'll suggest going with the 1mm thermal pad however what you could and should do is take a ruler and measure the thermal pads thickness. If they are all 1mm in thickness then you can order a large pad and even if they are a mix of 1 and 2mm then you can apply a double layer of 1mm thermal tape/pad.

Contrary to what i7Baby had suggested, you use:
TIM's when you have a level surface i.e when a plate makes a very good flush contact with heat surface
Thermal pad's when you have an uneven mount or surface

its a good thing you didn't throw away the thermal pads and gone ahead with the thermal paste application to screws things over even more.

What sites do you access to from Egypt in order to purchase? anywhere in the world or specific sites or parts of the world like USA only? Fujipoly is out of stock and currently unavailable on amazon.com while frozencpu is actually closed due to a dispute(prefer not to disclose) so I'll need to know if you are willing to work with other brands.

Furthermore this is what your GPU PCB looks like:

and this is what a GTX680M looks like:

again;

GTX 675M

GTX 680M

Is there any way you can contact the guys ask for the thickness(if you're uncomfortable in opening up the laptop)? State that you're trying to look for a better quality thermal pad then what they are offering.

 

[abdullah_mag]

The thermal pads they always used on my card were the 9nes issued by dell when they sent my replacement cqrd last time.

I have not decoupled the gpu from the heatsink s8nce the last reapplication of pads.

Ebay is quite accessible to me as long as payment is not through bank transfer.

As for working with other brands, i 0icked fujipoly as it seems everyone is recommending it when it comes to pads, but i am open to other suggestions as l9ng as they are good brands.

 

[Lutfij]

Gotcha bro!

Get:
[strike]3[/strike] 4 x Fujipoly Extreme
1x Arctic Cooling MX4 <---only for use with the CPU and GPU dies(plural for die and not a funeral application )

^ again this is a hefty investment and thus the inquiry into whether you're comfortable in going this route but if the guys can pull off the application and your order makes it through in good time then you will be a happy customer with aftermarket modifications to your lappy.

Oh and does the latter link check out fine by showing the cheapest MX 4 available? If not then go through this list and purchase the lowest priced MX4 you can find:
http/www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&ghostText=&_sacat=0&_nkw=artic+cooling+MX4&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

The Fujipoly pads though, they are the only links available and not found cheaper than that

I know you don't have the time(since your frustrated and concerned about your laptop) to read through off topic info but I have used Fujipoly's on my Watercooling build - Project AMS (in my sig) on my Rampage Extreme Heatpipe assembly and the pads are stellar in terms of heat dissipation/performance and the reading of reviews as well as their price are well worth it! Period! There are other pads that cost close to the Fujipoly's but they don't have the same heat dissipation characteristics as the Fujipoly - again they are the best out there.

 

[abdullah_mag]

Wow thanks a bunch man, will definitely put these on my buy list if my guys can't get me the pads, but like you said this is quite a hefty investment, needs some saving on my part

Edit: btw, the fujipoly seller you linked ships to eu only, so i'm gonna have to find another one.

 

[Lutfij]

I live in Bangladesh (previously in U.A.E) and I have someone who purchases off of any site I need and has them shipped to the 'States which is then shipped to my location. This is a lengthy process but at least I have a confirmed chance of receiving my product and the rates are cheaper when you consider direct shipping to my place from e-tailer site will cause me to have hiked customs and taxes charged.

In short if you can find a relative to purchase and ship it via friends then it helps. Until then tax your system less than usual and keep within as idle temps as possible before making the modifications. I didn't overclock on my system until I made the proper thermal modifications(watercooling blocks, TIM, thermal pads additional nylon washer for every screw and then thats when I went into overclocking without any worry apart from monitoring the voltages.

Also see if you can contact them to see if they will cater to an emergency situation?


Don't mention it bro!

 

[Lutfij]

Almost ushering in the next month - have you made any progress with your laptop? Just curios bro

 

[abdullah_mag]

Almost ushering in the next month - have you made any progress with your laptop? Just curios bro

so sorry for the late reply, i hadn't checked tom's hardware in a long time >.<

Sadly i couldn't acquire a new set of tailor made thermal pads, however, i am planning on getting a high quality thermal compound/paste and i will repaste my CPU and GPU, i picked something non electrically conductive just to be as safe as possible since i'm a newbie.

 

[Lutfij]

No its alright, we are all here on our own voluntary time/effort Relax!

Thermal compound no matter how often it is advertised as thermally non conductive can be conductive. The issue of concern I'd like to relay to you is the fact that there are places in your laptop cooler where they necessarily state the use of thermal pads is imperative.

Nevertheless I'm already a month later than you in replying so perhaps you've bought it, tried it and proven my point wrong...?

 

[abdullah_mag]

No its alright, we are all here on our own voluntary time/effort Relax!

Thermal compound no matter how often it is advertised as thermally non conductive can be conductive. The issue of concern I'd like to relay to you is the fact that there are places in your laptop cooler where they necessarily state the use of thermal pads is imperative.

Nevertheless I'm already a month later than you in replying so perhaps you've bought it, tried it and proven my point wrong...?

i ordered it on the 3rd of this month, but it still has not arrived.

Furthermore -and even more troubling- my gpu appears to have died, as i was playing guild wars 2 and my screen suddenly went black and sound went out completely, then the laptop restarted, and once it started up again it got a black screen right away (right from the desktop), so i opened safe mode, backed up some small files, turned off the laptop and put it back in its box till the thermal paste arrives, though i do not have high hopes for it now as the previous 2 times this happened the GPU completely died, GTX 675m is by far the WORST gpu i have EVER had the displeasure of using.

 

[Lutfij]

Sad to hear of the development. I gotta hand it to you for patience ma'asha'allah akhi! You packed your laptop away until the paste arrives which is a good sign as most would've been bashing their heads into it and trying to make come back to life without troubleshooting(You know what I mean?) though you're absolutely certain that you can use thermal paste in place of the thermal pads?

 

[abdullah_mag]

Sad to hear of the development. I gotta hand it to you for patience ma'asha'allah akhi! You packed your laptop away until the paste arrives which is a good sign as most would've been bashing their heads into it and trying to make come back to life without troubleshooting(You know what I mean?) though you're absolutely certain that you can use thermal paste in place of the thermal pads?

i have been doing research for several days on that subject, and i had concluded that i wouldn't need anything other than the paste prior to ordering the thermal paste.

i really hope that black screen was just a safety measure rather than a sign of failure, buying a new GPU or a new laptop would be a huge financial drop for me, and even then i won't have as good of a machine as this Alienware.

 

[Lutfij]

i wouldn't need anything other than the paste prior to ordering the thermal paste.

Please re-read through the entire thread, I'd have suggested buying a thermal paste to replace the thermal pads in the beginning of this thread if it were possible instead of making you run around the bush.

If the suggestion has been lost in this thread then in a nutshell;
Thermal pads can come in varying sizes and thickness and are designed to be used in places where an even/flush contact isn't possible. TIM is used in places where the contact patch has minor imperfections between heatspreader and the heatsource. Thermal pads are necessary for places where the application of a thermal paste would result in negative thermal performance either by
a| improper contact
b| electrical conductivity from the circuitry

One more thing, thermal pads are designed to be used in semi open environments where they can be exposed to the elements as opposed to a paste where the latter can and will dry up when left exposed and given enough time. When you factor in heat it speeds up the process of drying for the paste but not the pads.

 

[abdullah_mag]

i wouldn't need anything other than the paste prior to ordering the thermal paste.

Please re-read through the entire thread, I'd have suggested buying a thermal paste to replace the thermal pads in the beginning of this thread if it were possible instead of making you run around the bush.

If the suggestion has been lost in this thread then in a nutshell;
Thermal pads can come in varying sizes and thickness and are designed to be used in places where an even/flush contact isn't possible. TIM is used in places where the contact patch has minor imperfections between heatspreader and the heatsource. Thermal pads are necessary for places where the application of a thermal paste would result in negative thermal performance either by
a| improper contact
b| electrical conductivity from the circuitry

One more thing, thermal pads are designed to be used in semi open environments where they can be exposed to the elements as opposed to a paste where the latter can and will dry up when left exposed and given enough time. When you factor in heat it speeds up the process of drying for the paste but not the pads.

i know all the above, but the thread is old and atm i'm acting on new information.

I WAS going to try get that pad instead of risking a paste, but after i researched and asking many people who have had first hand experience with similar cards and alienware models, i concluded that i will only need a thermal paste.

i ordered 3 grams of the best thermal paste i can afford and i will try it, i have nothing to lose really, and if there's anytime to learn how to repaste it's on a likely failing GPU rather than on a new one.

The thermal paste i ordered is also non conductive/capacitive according to many people whom i asked, as well as on the specs of the paste itself.

 

[Lutfij]

Sounds like you are confident and I won't do anything to damage your progress Since you've double checked with other users with similar hardware then it checks out. I was merely saying it from experience as well

Please keep us in the loop with your progress irrespective of a dead GPU or no - deal?

 

[abdullah_mag]

Sounds like you are confident and I won't do anything to damage your progress Since you've double checked with other users with similar hardware then it checks out. I was merely saying it from experience as well

Please keep us in the loop with your progress irrespective of a dead GPU or no - deal?

ofc

 

[Lutfij]

Alright, looking forward to any news henceforth
Good luck buddy!