News Interest in EV trucks like F150 Lightning is plummeting — here's why

[admin]

Ford recently announced layoffs in its factory that produces the F150 Lighting, which is a sign that interest in EV trucks is starting to lessen. Here's why.

Interest in EV trucks like F150 Lightning is plummeting — here's why : Read more

 

[FrankC76]

They can't tow in any feasible, practical way. It took awhile for this to really sink in because the manufacturers and the media that cover EV kept the fact hidden for as long as they could. Motor trend truck of the year! Okay. Now Motor trend regularly publishes articles about the horrors of towing with it. How did that happen?? EV trucks cannot tow, regardless of their impressive tow ratings. For a wide swath of truck owners, telling us to buy a $70,000 electric truck (or in some cases, $100,000) that will barely make it past your town's city limits (assuming there is no grade) with your travel trailer or boat is a kick in the teeth.

 

[LRG-DNA]

Towing and distance are two big issues with EV trucks. That's why my latest purchase was a hybrid F150. Good mileage and great towing. I definitely would like to go electric but until we have another battery/ charging breakthrough, I don't see it for large SUVs or trucks, especially if towing is a big consideration.

I am very interested in the plug in hybrid RamCharger pickup coming out at the end of this year. Fully electric drive train with a V6 under the hood that only serves as a generator. You can get around 140 miles fully electric before it starts using the V6 to charge the battery. This gives you the daily driver benefits of electric while giving you up to 690 miles on a full charge and full tank. This is the middle ground truck I've been waiting for and one that would probably satisfy those wanting electric work trucks. Still possible to use only electric in a workday, but if you have to do a lot of towing or extra long drives, you're still good with the gas motor backup generator. Something I'll likely look at in a few years when I'm ready to possibly trade in the F150.

 

[curt504]

Other then some Gov mandate for EV, in my view, I've not heard a good answer to; why EV or even plug in for a working truck?

My digging into the CO2 math finds EV stays net negative throughout its life time, unless very small battery / elec motor in a hybrid. Even on a small battery the CO2 break even is closer to 10yrs out and that assumes the original battery / whole vehical lasts that long. Ok some will break even. But many won't. This whole EV/Co2 thing just doesn't pencil out... ;(

And I'm an "environmentalist". But I punch a calculator and not listen to Gov mandates. LOL then where is all this new electricity going to come from? Its all mess. Especially where its cold. Just a mess.

BTW those pictures from Chicago circa last Dec +/- at public charging stations was sad, very sad. I wonder why big and expensive EVs are not selling. Tesla just disappointed with dropping saless, Detroit EVs are tanking.

I might have mis heard; only 10% of car drivers park their cars in a garage where a charger can be located. LOL thats just 10% of the market that makes sense for full EV... ;( Living in an apartment and charging at public stations is where the brick wall is at practically then the price / mortgage.. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Maxwell3]

A question for Tom Valasco: In the article, you wrote "demand for electric trucks like the F150 have waned", and, for evidence to back that up, you like to a Business Insider article that includes lots of data about all sorts of things, but not data that demand for electric trucks has waned.
Then you wrote "Ford announced layoffs for 1,400 of its workers in its factory in Michigan that manufactures the F150 Lightning, which only compounds the year-over-year decrease in sales posted for Q4 2023." To back up your claim of a year-over-year decrease in sales, you link to a Ford Authority article that reports year-over-year changes in sales, but not a decrease. The Ford Authority article reports that sales of the Ford F-150 Lightning rose 73.62% in Q4, and 54.74% YTD. 73.62% up and 54.74% up is not what is called "waning". That is demand waxing.
To help you read that Ford Authority article, they colored the YOY cells green and added "+". It's hard to imagine someone being confused by the chart.
My question is, "what is going on?" I see you wrote four articles that day. Were you just tired? Did an oil company PR person send you text? Have you gotten guidance that EV bashing is good clickbait? What's up?

 

[DrPlanarian]

There is a concerted and VERY widespread and sophisticated PR campaign, probably coordinated by the membership of API and related organizations, to turn the public away from purchasing EVs. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting an article critical of some aspect of EVs, from pointing out that some manufacturers overstate range, or some public charging ports malfunction, or the travails of the poor lithium or cobalt miner, or the horror of range anxiety or battery lifespan and cost of replacement, or how much you'd miss the rumble of a V8 or the visceral thrill of the stick shift, or about Elon Musk's latest outrage, or how unpopular EVs are (so they MUST be bad, right?).

Many of these arguments particularly appeal to those manly men devoted to their pickup trucks. "Hey, you don't want to be seen driving a GOLF CART around, do you?"

Now, mind you, the purpose of these articles is to discourage the purchase of truly SUPERIOR products, ones that no longer rely on the oil industry's wares. EVs are faster, cleaner, more reliable and MUCH cheaper to operate than ICE vehicles, provide the convenience of "refueling" in your driveway while you sleep, and allow designers a freedom they could only dream of with ICE vehicles by removing any need to accommodate a big engine, transmission, drive shaft and gas tank.

The fact is, most of the people who purchase EVs love them and would NEVER go back.

 

[DrPlanarian]

Other then some Gov mandate for EV, in my view, I've not heard a good answer to; why EV or even plug in for a working truck?

My digging into the CO2 math finds EV stays net negative throughout its life time, unless very small battery / elec motor in a hybrid. Even on a small battery the CO2 break even is closer to 10yrs out and that assumes the original battery / whole vehical lasts that long. Ok some will break even. But many won't. This whole EV/Co2 thing just doesn't pencil out... ;(

And I'm an "environmentalist". But I punch a calculator and not listen to Gov mandates. LOL then where is all this new electricity going to come from? Its all mess. Especially where its cold. Just a mess.

BTW those pictures from Chicago circa last Dec +/- at public charging stations was sad, very sad. I wonder why big and expensive EVs are not selling. Tesla just disappointed with dropping saless, Detroit EVs are tanking.

I might have mis heard; only 10% of car drivers park their cars in a garage where a charger can be located. LOL thats just 10% of the market that makes sense for full EV... ;( Living in an apartment and charging at public stations is where the brick wall is at practically then the price / mortgage.. Doesn't make sense.

Your "digging" must have been in the wrong spot. There is a HUGE CO2 advantage with EVs. You "break even" on CO2 with an ICE vehicle in the first couple thousand miles.

Furthermore, depending on where you live, EVs only obtain some percentage, and in some cases that percentage is zero, of their energy from sources that produce CO2 emissions. If your electricity comes from nuclear, hydroelectric or solar, your indirect emission would be zero (your direct emission from an EV is always zero). But even if the energy is from gas-fired generators it is far more carbon-efficient than burning gasoline in your car.

Sure, extremely cold weather diminishes EV range. But ICE vehicles under the same conditions often will not start at all.

And a level 2 charger need not be mounted inside a garage. It can be mounted on an outside wall. It's still tough for apartment dwellers, who in most cases will need to rely on public chargers But EVERYONE, irrespective of dwelling, who owns an ICE vehicle needs to go to a public refueling station.

 

[WHamilton]

Ford recently announced layoffs in its factory that produces the F150 Lighting, which is a sign that interest in EV trucks is starting to lessen. Here's why.

Interest in EV trucks like F150 Lightning is plummeting — here's why : Read more

Regardless of how many are sold, any EV is nothing more than a town car. For some, that might be enough. But for vacation travel, the lack of sufficient charging infrastructure to meet demand, charge times that take longer than a sit-down meal, lack of decent range between charges simply rule any EV out for me. I don't care how efficient they are or how much you save on maintenance, they are inconvenient.

 

[Zmonster]

Where is this $57k cybertruck price coming from. Even on Tesla's site the lowest is $60k. And that won't be available til sometime next year. You can get a base model Lightning or R1T in as little as a week or two.

 

[john_velasco]

They can't tow in any feasible, practical way. It took awhile for this to really sink in because the manufacturers and the media that cover EV kept the fact hidden for as long as they could. Motor trend truck of the year! Okay. Now Motor trend regularly publishes articles about the horrors of towing with it. How did that happen?? EV trucks cannot tow, regardless of their impressive tow ratings. For a wide swath of truck owners, telling us to buy a $70,000 electric truck (or in some cases, $100,000) that will barely make it past your town's city limits (assuming there is no grade) with your travel trailer or boat is a kick in the teeth.

Fair point. It explains why I have only seen one F150 Lightning on the roads by me. But I think it's worth highlighting that the F150 Lightning still has benefits over buying a comparably priced EV sedan or SUV.

 

[john_velasco]

Towing and distance are two big issues with EV trucks. That's why my latest purchase was a hybrid F150. Good mileage and great towing. I definitely would like to go electric but until we have another battery/ charging breakthrough, I don't see it for large SUVs or trucks, especially if towing is a big consideration.

I am very interested in the plug in hybrid RamCharger pickup coming out at the end of this year. Fully electric drive train with a V6 under the hood that only serves as a generator. You can get around 140 miles fully electric before it starts using the V6 to charge the battery. This gives you the daily driver benefits of electric while giving you up to 690 miles on a full charge and full tank. This is the middle ground truck I've been waiting for and one that would probably satisfy those wanting electric work trucks. Still possible to use only electric in a workday, but if you have to do a lot of towing or extra long drives, you're still good with the gas motor backup generator. Something I'll likely look at in a few years when I'm ready to possibly trade in the F150.

In another article, I mentioned exactly why plug-in hybrids should be the focus for now because they offer the best of both worlds -- without investing fully into EV.

 

[john_velasco]

Other then some Gov mandate for EV, in my view, I've not heard a good answer to; why EV or even plug in for a working truck?

My digging into the CO2 math finds EV stays net negative throughout its life time, unless very small battery / elec motor in a hybrid. Even on a small battery the CO2 break even is closer to 10yrs out and that assumes the original battery / whole vehical lasts that long. Ok some will break even. But many won't. This whole EV/Co2 thing just doesn't pencil out... ;(

And I'm an "environmentalist". But I punch a calculator and not listen to Gov mandates. LOL then where is all this new electricity going to come from? Its all mess. Especially where its cold. Just a mess.

BTW those pictures from Chicago circa last Dec +/- at public charging stations was sad, very sad. I wonder why big and expensive EVs are not selling. Tesla just disappointed with dropping saless, Detroit EVs are tanking.

I might have mis heard; only 10% of car drivers park their cars in a garage where a charger can be located. LOL thats just 10% of the market that makes sense for full EV... ;( Living in an apartment and charging at public stations is where the brick wall is at practically then the price / mortgage.. Doesn't make sense.

This is why I'm leaning on hybrid plug-ins to fill in this gap. I'm open to EVs because of the potential savings, but I know very well they don't have the same convenience of filling up in an instant -- or the towing power that pickup drivers demand.

 

[john_velasco]

Regardless of how many are sold, any EV is nothing more than a town car. For some, that might be enough. But for vacation travel, the lack of sufficient charging infrastructure to meet demand, charge times that take longer than a sit-down meal, lack of decent range between charges simply rule any EV out for me. I don't care how efficient they are or how much you save on maintenance, they are inconvenient.

EVs are luxury cars, which I hate. Over time, it'll be easier (and hopefully faster) to charge them.

 

[john_velasco]

Where is this $57k cybertruck price coming from. Even on Tesla's site the lowest is $60k. And that won't be available til sometime next year. You can get a base model Lightning or R1T in as little as a week or two.

Here you go. The rear-wheel base Cybertruck is that price.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design

 

[john_velasco]

There is a concerted and VERY widespread and sophisticated PR campaign, probably coordinated by the membership of API and related organizations, to turn the public away from purchasing EVs. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting an article critical of some aspect of EVs, from pointing out that some manufacturers overstate range, or some public charging ports malfunction, or the travails of the poor lithium or cobalt miner, or the horror of range anxiety or battery lifespan and cost of replacement, or how much you'd miss the rumble of a V8 or the visceral thrill of the stick shift, or about Elon Musk's latest outrage, or how unpopular EVs are (so they MUST be bad, right?).

Many of these arguments particularly appeal to those manly men devoted to their pickup trucks. "Hey, you don't want to be seen driving a GOLF CART around, do you?"

Now, mind you, the purpose of these articles is to discourage the purchase of truly SUPERIOR products, ones that no longer rely on the oil industry's wares. EVs are faster, cleaner, more reliable and MUCH cheaper to operate than ICE vehicles, provide the convenience of "refueling" in your driveway while you sleep, and allow designers a freedom they could only dream of with ICE vehicles by removing any need to accommodate a big engine, transmission, drive shaft and gas tank.

The fact is, most of the people who purchase EVs love them and would NEVER go back.

I am 100% for EVs. However, I'm trying to uncover if they're practical. I really don't like the idea of paying for gas, but at the same time, I've found roadblocks that could prevent me from going the all-EV route first.

 

[john_velasco]

A question for Tom Valasco: In the article, you wrote "demand for electric trucks like the F150 have waned", and, for evidence to back that up, you like to a Business Insider article that includes lots of data about all sorts of things, but not data that demand for electric trucks has waned.
Then you wrote "Ford announced layoffs for 1,400 of its workers in its factory in Michigan that manufactures the F150 Lightning, which only compounds the year-over-year decrease in sales posted for Q4 2023." To back up your claim of a year-over-year decrease in sales, you link to a Ford Authority article that reports year-over-year changes in sales, but not a decrease. The Ford Authority article reports that sales of the Ford F-150 Lightning rose 73.62% in Q4, and 54.74% YTD. 73.62% up and 54.74% up is not what is called "waning". That is demand waxing.
To help you read that Ford Authority article, they colored the YOY cells green and added "+". It's hard to imagine someone being confused by the chart.
My question is, "what is going on?" I see you wrote four articles that day. Were you just tired? Did an oil company PR person send you text? Have you gotten guidance that EV bashing is good clickbait? What's up?

No, I wasn't tired at all. The claim comes from the Edmunds report about consumer demand. From readers who own and use pickup trucks, they've expressed the main reason why the F150 Lightning isn't selling as well is because 1. it's expensive and 2. it can't match the towing power of ICE F150s.

This is why I mention that Ford should've started small, rather than leaning into a $50K F150. I, for one, never thought I'd ever be interested in a pickup truck -- let alone one that's all-electric. But it's now something I'd consider after test driving the F150 Lightning. I just wish they all weren't all priced like luxury cars.

 

[LRG-DNA]

Here you go. The rear-wheel base Cybertruck is that price.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design

Actually, that is the price after subtracting $3600 in gas savings over 3 years. I don't know why tesla even has that on their site. It's so disingenuous. If they were subtracting a rebate, I'd be fine, but they are just saying it's only this price when you calculate how much you'll save in gas. You're paying $60,990 out of pocket though. And it doesn't qualify for the rebate currently.

This truck was practical at the $40k price tesla estimated when first announcing the truck. I just don't see many going for it at these prices compared to the f150 lightning. As a truck, the cybertruck is not the best designed with its odd bed and cab design. Compared to the lightning that is still the same as an ICE F150. I've even seen a lightning with the lariat trim for $60k new. Not to mention, the lightning qualifies for the tax rebate which lowers the price to the low $50k range for a high trim.

 

[kep55]

I recently ended my search for a replacement for my 2014 MKZ. Since the oil companies still want to gouge and rob their customers, I was interested in either an EV or PHEV. The EV dealer (Hyundai) was practically on his knees begging me to lease an Ioniq5. The Ford dealer gave me an extra $3,500 to buy an Escape PHEV + 0% loan. If the companies can give deals like these then to me it proves their EV/PHEV vehicles are grossly overpriced. Way back when Ford came out with the Fusion/MKZ hybrids, they cost the same as the ICE version. Think about it.

 

[ngant17]

I’m not sure if battery technology is mature enough to go all-in with an EV. I just had to replace a new 12v battery in my truck yesterday, it was only a month old with less than 500 miles on it. Half the cost of owning an EV is in the battery pack. You lose your EV battery and that is like having to replace your gas engine because of a bad cylinder head or crankshaft.

 

[California Dave]

Regardless of how many are sold, any EV is nothing more than a town car. For some, that might be enough. But for vacation travel, the lack of sufficient charging infrastructure to meet demand, charge times that take longer than a sit-down meal, lack of decent range between charges simply rule any EV out for me. I don't care how efficient they are or how much you save on maintenance, they are inconvenient.

I just acquired a used 2023 base model 3 Tesla. The longest I have charged out and about has been 25 minutes, at a 1/4 the price it costs to fill up my wife’s 25mpg car. This is after years of seeing the same EV in every vacation location I’ve been in across the west, include Rainer, Yellowstone, etc.

May not be for you, but a lot of the complaints people have are based on outdated or simply wrong data.