Anyone used a Shure VP88 stereo mic?

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On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:48:44 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote
(in article <42a06dd0$0$1535$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>):

> Ty Ford wrote:
>
>> From the AT site,
>>
>> http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/b92dc794916f0fa7/index.html
>>
>> Likewise a stereo/shotgun, one or the other. Not both at the same time.
>
> Thanks. That looks like it would be a useful mic for my concert
> recording projects (for the audience). It could work in our studio, too,
> though I'd prefer something physically smaller.
>
>> Panned? we don't need no stinkin' panning! The mics were cut left and right.
>>
>> How big's the room?
>
> The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
> only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
> area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>
> Here's a picture:
>
> http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>
> It's really intended first and foremost as an interview space.

Sorry Jim,

I sneezed and hit the send button.

Get AE5400 hyper cardioid vocal mics. Get some broadcast-type suspension
mounts for the mics. Get pop filters.

Get a some direct boxes for instruments w/ pickups and run them all through a
small 6-8 channel mixer so you can pan here and there.

How's that?

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
 
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In article <42a06dd0$0$1535$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> usemylastname@cheerful.com writes:

> The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
> only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
> area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>
> Here's a picture:
> http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif

Better not bring in any didgeridoo players.

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However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
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Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <42a06dd0$0$1535$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> usemylastname@cheerful.com writes:
>
>>The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
>>only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
>>area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>>
>>Here's a picture:
>>http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>
> Better not bring in any didgeridoo players.

<g> I think that's a safe bet.

Yeah, it's tight. There's room and mics for three guests, but probably
only two with instruments, and even that may require removing the seats.
It's far from ideal acoustically, but it isn't intended to be a
regular performing space. 99% of the time, it's just an on-air broadcast
studio. I'm just trying to squeeze in something usable for those
"surprise" guests who show up from time to time.
 
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Ty Ford wrote:
>>>
>>>How big's the room?
>>
>>The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
>>only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
>>area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>>
>>Here's a picture:
>>
>>http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>
> Get AE5400 hyper cardioid vocal mics. Get some broadcast-type suspension
> mounts for the mics. Get pop filters.
>
> Get a some direct boxes for instruments w/ pickups and run them all through a
> small 6-8 channel mixer so you can pan here and there.
>
> How's that?

I can bring in my own stuff to do that when necessary, but I know I can't
convince our management to install that sort of thing permanently.
Still, that's a solution that I may want to use sometimes. They are
planning to leave one channel on the board for external use, and I've got
a suitable mixer and some direct boxes that will make that relatively
easy to do. But sometimes I don't know that I'm going to have a guest
until I'm actually at the station and on the air. We're dealing with the
real world here.

BTW, I've become a lot less enthusiastic about the AE5400s. We used them
quite a bit for last year's Kent State Folk Fest, and I've been really
fighting with the vocal tracks that came from them. Especially for the
women, I'm finding that I have to do some rather extreme EQing to get
them to sound right. Maybe they just didn't get along well with the pres
on my Spirit mixer, but I've never had this much trouble with any other mic.

The SM7s (with pop filters and broadcast booms) really aren't bad at all
for vocal mics. My biggest problem is that the compressor settings that
are used for speaking aren't necessarily ideal for singing. So I'm
hoping to work with our engineer to find a setting that will work OK for
both.

I think it's pretty clear that the configuration at hand isn't going to
be anywhere near perfect. But it will be considerably better than what I
have now, and that's definitely a step in the right direction. There's a
lot of compromising going on to allow this to happen at all.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
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Jim Gilliland wrote:
> Ty Ford wrote:
>
>> How big's the room?
>
> The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
> only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
> area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>
> Here's a picture:
>
> http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>
> It's really intended first and foremost as an interview space.

BTW, Ty (or others), what's considered "best practice" for acoustic
treatment in a broadcast studio like this one? I'm not sure that I'll be
able to have much influence over whatever it is that they decide to do,
but I'd like to at least be informed.

I know that the window to the lobby will be angled so that it is slightly
non-parallel to the opposite wall, and that the opposite wall will be
used for a "new release" CD rack (adjacent to the door). The floor will
be carpeted, and acoustic tiles on the ceiling. I know they have some
sort of treatment in mind for other wall surfaces, but I really don't
know what.
 
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:11:22 -0400, Jim Gilliland
<usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote:

>BTW, Ty (or others), what's considered "best practice" for acoustic
>treatment in a broadcast studio like this one? I'm not sure that I'll be
>able to have much influence over whatever it is that they decide to do,
>but I'd like to at least be informed.

Just gotta say, Jim, that you're a real trooper, and fighting the
good fight. Please keep fighting as long as possible; folks *do*
appreciate it. Thanks,

Chris Hornbeck
"He thought so little they rewarded he,
By making him the ruler of the Queen's Navy".
 
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On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:23:58 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote
(in article <42a0d8a7$0$35941$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>):

> I think it's pretty clear that the configuration at hand isn't going to
> be anywhere near perfect. But it will be considerably better than what I
> have now, and that's definitely a step in the right direction. There's a
> lot of compromising going on to allow this to happen at all.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions.

Yah, for sure. WhenI did that years ago, I found manual gain riding with a
limiter on top to keep it all in the box was the best answer.

You (they) are doing two things, singing and talking. Very different. You
also might want a little reverb you can dump in when they are singing.

Regards,

Ty



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
 
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On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:11:22 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote
(in article <42a11bca$0$26328$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>):

> Jim Gilliland wrote:
>> Ty Ford wrote:
>>
>>> How big's the room?
>>
>> The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
>> only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
>> area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>>
>> Here's a picture:
>>
>> http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>>
>> It's really intended first and foremost as an interview space.
>
> BTW, Ty (or others), what's considered "best practice" for acoustic
> treatment in a broadcast studio like this one? I'm not sure that I'll be
> able to have much influence over whatever it is that they decide to do,
> but I'd like to at least be informed.
>
> I know that the window to the lobby will be angled so that it is slightly
> non-parallel to the opposite wall, and that the opposite wall will be
> used for a "new release" CD rack (adjacent to the door). The floor will
> be carpeted, and acoustic tiles on the ceiling. I know they have some
> sort of treatment in mind for other wall surfaces, but I really don't
> know what.

Um, make the windows as small as possible (something many don't think about.)
If they are close to the sound sources (And yours appear to be), install them
so they angle the sound UP and not DOWN. A lot of installs screw up by
putting them in to angle down because they've seen them that way. Problem is,
if the sound source is close, and the glass is above, that just bounces the
sound back into the rear or side of the mic instead up up towards the
ceiling.

Don't rely solely on "acoustic tile" in the ceiling. Get think (1" or less)
Sonex. Take the ceiling tiles down. Lay them face up on the floor. Spread
some lines of liquid nails on the surface. Cut (if needed) and position the
Sonex on the tiles. Squish the Sonex around a little to spread the liquid
adhesive for a tighter fit. Not too much or it will stick off center. Now
turn them over (foam down) and put a couple of bricks or books on them for 20
minutes or so. Then install your new acoustic ceiling tiles.

Angling the ceiling tiles so they aren't all parallel to the floor also helps
or suspend a non-parallel floater or two from the ceiling to break up the
ceiling bounce

Don't use a lot of foam on the walls. Go for a balance of diffusion
(irregular surfaces) and absorption (foam). Too much foam in a room sounds
overly dead and spongy.

Opps! Now you know most of my tricks, I'll have to hunt you done and bill
you. Fortunately, this is just between the two of us.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
 
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In article <42a11bca$0$26328$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> usemylastname@cheerful.com writes:

> BTW, Ty (or others), what's considered "best practice" for acoustic
> treatment in a broadcast studio like this one?

It might not be the real best practice, but convention is about 50%
coverage of the walls with 2" Sonex.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
 
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Ty Ford wrote:
>
> You (they) are doing two things, singing and talking. Very different. You
> also might want a little reverb you can dump in when they are singing.

Right, that's in the plan as well.
 
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Ty Ford wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:11:22 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote
> (in article <42a11bca$0$26328$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>):
>
>
>>Jim Gilliland wrote:
>>
>>>Ty Ford wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>How big's the room?
>>>
>>>The room will be about 10x12.5, but the area for guests (performers) is
>>>only about 3 feet by 10 feet. The wall will be close behind them. The
>>>area will be wide, but not at all deep.
>>>
>>>Here's a picture:
>>>
>>>http://users.adelphia.net/~gilliland/sightlines.gif
>>>
>>>It's really intended first and foremost as an interview space.
>>
>>BTW, Ty (or others), what's considered "best practice" for acoustic
>>treatment in a broadcast studio like this one? I'm not sure that I'll be
>>able to have much influence over whatever it is that they decide to do,
>>but I'd like to at least be informed.
>>
>>I know that the window to the lobby will be angled so that it is slightly
>>non-parallel to the opposite wall, and that the opposite wall will be
>>used for a "new release" CD rack (adjacent to the door). The floor will
>>be carpeted, and acoustic tiles on the ceiling. I know they have some
>>sort of treatment in mind for other wall surfaces, but I really don't
>>know what.
>
>
> Um, make the windows as small as possible (something many don't think about.)
> If they are close to the sound sources (And yours appear to be), install them
> so they angle the sound UP and not DOWN. A lot of installs screw up by
> putting them in to angle down because they've seen them that way. Problem is,
> if the sound source is close, and the glass is above, that just bounces the
> sound back into the rear or side of the mic instead up up towards the
> ceiling.
>
> Don't rely solely on "acoustic tile" in the ceiling. Get think (1" or less)
> Sonex. Take the ceiling tiles down. Lay them face up on the floor. Spread
> some lines of liquid nails on the surface. Cut (if needed) and position the
> Sonex on the tiles. Squish the Sonex around a little to spread the liquid
> adhesive for a tighter fit. Not too much or it will stick off center. Now
> turn them over (foam down) and put a couple of bricks or books on them for 20
> minutes or so. Then install your new acoustic ceiling tiles.
>
> Angling the ceiling tiles so they aren't all parallel to the floor also helps
> or suspend a non-parallel floater or two from the ceiling to break up the
> ceiling bounce
>
> Don't use a lot of foam on the walls. Go for a balance of diffusion
> (irregular surfaces) and absorption (foam). Too much foam in a room sounds
> overly dead and spongy.
>
> Opps! Now you know most of my tricks, I'll have to hunt you done and bill
> you. Fortunately, this is just between the two of us.

Thanks, Ty. I'll be sure to keep it to myself. <g>

And actually, we do have some variation in ceiling height in the plans.
It won't be non-parallel, but it will not be all one flat surface either.

I'll bring up the Sonex - I don't think anyone has considered that.
 

allemandemusic

Distinguished
Nov 21, 2009
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I currently own a Shure VP88 and am occasionally using it in my recording studio. the stereo image from that mic is adjustable- a very nice feature. It is a bright sounding mic- no warmth here!

A very annoying fact about it is that it has a slight hiss- more than other condenser mics. The output of the mic is also quite low, so one has to boost the gain quite a bit, compounding the hiss problem.

For me, the high noisefloor is unacceptable- despite the great features on that mic I am rarely using it.
I'd recommend two small condenser mics for the gentleman who has the radio station. With some basic miking skills he will be happier to have separate mics than one (noisy) stereo mic.
 

HollywoodMozart

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Oct 17, 2014
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VP-88 noise?
Change your battery... It can get noisy on low-voltage... and appreciate what this microphone can do. If you're in a small space, work with how you mount it... It's very worthwhile. Placement? Use your ears… simple as that.
 

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