Best sound in a home theater

[Geral]

So i've been researching about building a HTPC. But i cant find whats the best setup to have a nice sound for it.

Should i:

• 
  ■ Buy 7.1 speakers and conect them to the HTPC directly?
  ■ Buy a stereo system (with 7.1 speakers included) and conect the HTPC to that?

Also, how should i connect them?

• 
  ■ Optical
  ■ Digital
  ■ HDMI
  ■ Other
  ■ (I would appreciate a brief explanation on what are these exactly and which one is the best if possible)

e/: Wich one is better? 5.1 or 7.1? Maybe 5.1 would be the best option for movies, music, and gaming?

Should i buy a sound card for the HTPC?
And, what if i just play some music, how does that sound on 7.1 system?

Thx guys, if you know of a guide about this stuff out there, please give me the link since i am a bit confused.

Thx.

 

[WyomingKnott]

And the answer is - it depends! On several things, the most significant used being what this is for and how fussy your ears are. Some of us are happy with basic earbuds, some of us have thousands of dollars worth of stuff that, to our ears, make the sound "better" or, in my case, "cleaner" and closer to the original.

Although all of the elements in the sound chain are important, two digital ones are key and are early in the process.

1) The source quality. CD-quality recordings will be more accurate to the original that MP3 files. There are higher-fidelity digital sources, but truly well-made recordings are few and far between. Your control here is choosing high-definition sources and well-made material.

2) The digital to analog conversion. This is the heart, IMHO, of the process of playing a digital source. People spend huge amounts of money on these devices and then swap "op-amps" listening for the ones that sound best.

I think you have two main choices here. Buy a high-quality home theater receiver (listen to several in stores) that takes digital input. In this case, the computer will send data to the receiver, which will convert it to sound and then amplify it (third key step) for the speakers (fourth). I'd use one of the TOSlink formats for this, optical or co-ax.

The second is conversion in your PC. Many motherboards nowadays come with onboard sound that is pretty good. Running this to good amplified speakers will satisfy most people. I personally run in only stereo and use an Asus Xonar Essence STX card to drive headphones or amplified speakers.


It's very much a matter of taste, what you are going to use it for (movies vs. baroque music vs. death metal), how fussy your ears are, and how much time and money you are happy to invest in the process.

Neither 5.1 or 7.1 is "better." For playing music, unless it was recorded in 5 or 7 channels the spatialization is done by guesswork and may or may not improve or damage the sound. For games, if the channels are present they will probably encode information that's useful to tell you where enemies are.

 

[Geral]

Ok so a home theatre receiver sounds like the best option for 7.1 surround (right?) .

What would be a nice receiver then? where should i look for them? I did saw some of them around 1000$ but the brand was unknown to me ( cant remember the name). What would be good brands for this?

 

[ssddx]

first some clarification...

you did not list a budget. please do this.

you also do not list all of the sources you will be hooking up to the speakers. please include any dvd players, consoles, tvs, etcetera

Buy 7.1 speakers and conect them to the HTPC directly?
the only speakers which would hook directly up to a pc without anything in between are powered speakers. these are notably ones labeled specifically as pc speakers but there are also hifi versions as well. now, pc speakers arent bad if you are on a low budget however are not going to be at the same level as a good home theater set. likewise, while you can get powered speakers from the hifi segment... most of your options are unpowered and you will need an amp/receiver to drive them.

Buy a stereo system (with 7.1 speakers included) and conect the HTPC to that?
i'm not sure that stereo system is the right term for what you are implying. i think you are talking about a home theater in a box type set where everything is included in one box. generally i would highly advise against HTIB sets as you often get what you pay for. they are often poorly built and many do not allow 5.1/7.1 sound from external sources other than the included br/dvd player despite having a hdmi input or optical input. if you go this route i would suggest getting a receiver instead and then getting either individual speakers or a matched speaker set. this is not to say you cannot go with a HTIB if you are on a low budget, just that you need to be careful and that i would personally advise otherwise.


Also, how should i connect them?

Optical
connecting via optical is fine, however be advised that not all motherboards support 5.1/7.1 sound via optical and only support 2.0 since you would need dolby digital live(DDL) support to do surround sound via optical. the reason is because optical only supports 2.0 channels of uncompressed sound, and only supports surround sound if it is compressed. DDL compresses the sound so that it can fit in the bandwidth the optical channel provides. this means slightly less quality then other sources such as hdmi but its not by a huge margin. to get DDL you might have to buy a soundcard or make sure the motherboard you buy has it. i've heard about DDL unlockers which work on any motherboard with realtek audio howeveri believe they are 3rd party and it would be risky to trust them. i'm also not sure how well they work.

Digital
by digital i take it you mean digital coaxial. now i'm not entirely sure on this but i believe that to get surround on digital coax you need to have similar support as is required by optical. digital coax is seen by some to be a bit better than optical because it doesnt have any jitter like optical can have however it is also not as commonly found on motherboards and does have its own limitations

HDMI
hdmi is by far the best connection to use for audio as it supports full quality uncompressed audio. it is convenient in the fact that it can handle both your audio and video needs. if you are using a television then it also makes for less cable clutter since you can connect one hdmi from pc to receiver then one from receiver to tv. all video is passed through to the tv (hdmi passthrough) while the sound is split off and send to your speakers. this is the manner in which i connect up my own system

Other
(I would appreciate a brief explanation on what are these exactly and which one is the best if possible)
almost all amplifiers and some lower end or older receivers used analog inputs. these were six (for 5.1) or eight (for 7.1) rca plugs which are similar to the 3.5mm speaker output jacks on your pc. the benefits of these are that you can make use of a high end soundcard on your pc since all other methods are digital and ignore your soundcard for the most part. the negatives are that its hard to find analog input anymore (other than very expensive amplifiers) and that its possible for the analog cables to pick up noise if you route them close to power cables. generally i dont think you need to be concerned with this method


e/: Wich one is better? 5.1 or 7.1? Maybe 5.1 would be the best option for movies, music, and gaming?
personally i would not even think about 7.1 as you would be wasting money over a 5.1 as most content is recorded in 5.1 only. while certainly true that there are some cases where you could benefit from 7.1 it will not be many and the difference between the two is not so great as the jump from 2.1 to 5.1 is. i would save your money and get a better 5.1 system instead of getting a 7.1 system.

movies - what i said above holds true 100%
music - only makes use of the front speakers and subwoofer unless you set your receiver to external stereo which will duplicate sound over the back speakers.
gaming - the majority of games suppport 5.1 while only some support 7.1 systems fully.

Should i buy a sound card for the HTPC?
that depends on how you want to connect up to your sound system and what kind of sound system you buy. if you were going to buy pc speakers then generally onboard sound is good enough unless you have issues such as crackling, low quality, etc in which case yes one might help. in the case of home theater systems it would only be necessary if you used optical output and lacked ddl support. if you used hdmi then you would not need a soundcard at all.

And, what if i just play some music, how does that sound on 7.1 system?
i cannot tell you how it will sound on a 7.1 system since i do not have one but i can tell you how it sounds on a 5.1 system. when your system is set up to handle surround sound... it will play out your front speakers and subwoofer only just like a 2.1 set. if you set your receiver to external stereo then it will play out the back speakers as well. essentially two speakers act as the left channel and two as the right. music sound fine in this way. if you had pc speakers then its a bit different... you would need to find the setting in your soundcard drivers to do this instead of hitting a simple button to turn it on/off.

----

now that the clarifications are out of the way...

do answer the questions concerning budget and things you need to connect it up to.

one of the best budget home theater systems is the energy take classic 5.1 set which usually goes for about $350 online. this can be paired up with a $150-200 receiver and you have yourself a pretty nice system for only about $500 which is quite a steal. much better than you would ever do with a HTIB set. ideally you would hook up to the receiver via hdmi.

if you wanted pc speakers only then there are a few choices for 5.1. if you have the budget for it, the z906 for $300 does a reasonably good job for the money but really is no match for the above set. it is however, cheaper and many will find it to be one of the better speaker sets for the computer. this hookes up via optical or 3.5mm

if you wanted to know what the absolute cheapest set to get 5.1 sound out of a computer would be then look at the z506 which is $99. sound quality is average at best however fine for most non-audiophiles. nowhere near as nice as the others but for the cost you cannot complain. this uses 3.5mm

 

[Geral]

Thanks for the great answer.
Im not an audiophile, but i definitely want something better than pc speakers. I thought you could connect any speakers to the pc, but as you clearly state, thats not possible. So the best option for a good sound surround system is: 5.1 speakers connected to a receiver, right?

What would I be connecting?

Well the idea i had for the htpc was to "do it all" (unless you guys advice otherwise)

• 
  ■ Play blue ray
  ■ Watch cable tv
  ■ Eventually play games
  ■ Listen to music
  ■ Karaoke
  ■ Even surf the internet if needed
  ■ (Any more stuff i can do with it?)

Thats why i thought i didnt really need any more stuff connected to the speakers (maybe a game console, but i thing theres a way to connect that to the pc so it sounds through the speakers connected to them).

Anyway, what you think about that?, Is that a good configuration? I DO want something better than pc speakers, i thought i could just plug any speaker i want... but seems i cant.

 

[ssddx]

better than pc speakers. check.
again... budget?????????

you need to also list your room size and what size speakers you would prefer.

--

a htpc could do everything you listed and more, depending on what hardware you stuff into it and what services you have. the cable card would need to be compatible with your provider and you might want to be running xmbc (kodi) or another such service on your computer as it makes media tasks easier.

also, since you want to be gaming you should make sure that the hardware is capable of that. if you want i can take a look at your build and give you suggestions if you havent built it yet. or just link me to the post if you have one on that subject.

technically there is a way to connect an additional source to the pc (a soundcard with spdif input) however those are fairly rare and it would require you pc to be on to have sound (wasting power). if you want multi-sources a receiver is the best option. and, i'm not sure if its a surround input or if its 2.0 only. so while possible, i would say to avoid using that as an option if you can.

perhaps you can get some ideas from looking at my own setup? click "build" in my signature to see.

well, technically you can plug almost anything in however that doesnt mean they will work. here is why: speakers require amplification and a soundcard is not capable of providing sufficient power to drive anything more than speakers with a few watts of output. computer speakers have an amplifier built into the subwoofer so they are called "powered" speakers since they plug into the wall outlet and provide their own source of power for driving the speakers. most hifi speakers are "unpowered" meaning that they need an amplifier to drive them. now, you "could" plug in speakers directly to your soundcard if you had an amplifier between the speakers and the soundcard, however since you want 5.1 or more i know for a fact that those amps run high in price which makes them not very budget friendly. the only other option would be using multiple smaller amps however that adds up to alot of small boxes with individual volume knobs! a receiver, while perhaps not as good as an amplifier in the same price category definitely serves the purpose very well by being the do-it-all control box for your system. you can control the volume on all the speakers, swap between sources, change audio modes, etcetera.

--

as i said in my last post... if you want something "better" than pc speakers, but do not want to spend a huge amount of money then the energy take classic 5.1 set (goes on sale for $300-$350 at times) paired up with a receiver such as the sony str-dh740 (goes on sale for about $200 at times) would get you a pretty decent system for $500-ish

now, you might want to go with an onkyo, pioneer or yamaha receiver instead of sony, and that is fine. as long as it can handle 50-80w per channel then it will work with those speakers.

--

apparently the monoprice 9774 are almost the same thing as the energy speakers but $150 less but with less warranty and without the name. so if you want bottom of the barrel pricing for something half decent then ($250) paired up with a lower end receiver such as the pioneer vsx-522-k ($150) so you could get off the hook for $400 and still have a decent system.

--

then there is always the option for getting seperate speakers (not matched kits).

this is how most speakers are sold and will give you the greatest freedom of choice.

there are many different speakers to pick from depending on budget and your physical location in the world.

 

[Geral]

So about the budget.

Since im planning to build an HTPC (still deciding to make it a gamer pc or not) i was thinking that a good sound is a MUST, else i just buy those home theatre systems (thanks for pointing out those incorporated speakers are not what i was looking for). So for what you've told me lets say 600-700$ (Speakers included) is the budget for the sound system, although i would like to know IF there are cheaper options for a good sound (thanks for already answering this as i will be looking for those you told me) (E/. I mean cheaper options for having as nice sound as a 700$ budget)

About the size of the room, ill say its about 10 x 7 (mts) or 70 mts2 , with a wall in the middle (the wall doesnt "cut" the room, its only about 2 mts long).

So the receiver is just a new thing for me, but it seems its the best option. I did some research asking in the stores about the best sound i could get for my idea, and most of them offered me Home theaters (which seemed bad for me since i wanted to build the htpc). Only one offered me a receiver but was way to pricey for me (aprox. 1000$) and was Harman Kardon (brand i didnt know about, now i know is like one of the best). With that in mind i though the receiver idea was just too much for me as i had to buy the speakers too.

With all you told me now, i figure out a receiver is a must for my setup and needs. 5.1 is still what i would like for movies and for listening music in every corner of that room. Now with my questions:

Whats most important, the receiver or the speakers? or how much less important is the receiver?

I ask this because i might replace the speakers in the future if i have some spare money, but i think a receiver is a much harder change, or what is the priority i should take? better speakers or better receiver? (i notice you didnt give much importance to the receiver, why?)

IF the conection is hdmi from the pc to the receiver, the sound card does absolutly nothing for the sound? (I suppose it doesnt)
For a karaoke, i suppose the mics plug onto the receiver right?
What are good brands of speakers and receivers?

Thx

E./ Parts from the budget

 

[USAFRet]

as i said in my last post... if you want something "better" than pc speakers, but do not want to spend a huge amount of money then the energy take classic 5.1 set (goes on sale for $300-$350 at times) paired up with a receiver such as the sony str-dh740 (goes on sale for about $200 at times) would get you a pretty decent system for $500-ish

now, you might want to go with an onkyo, pioneer or yamaha receiver instead of sony, and that is fine. as long as it can handle 50-80w per channel then it will work with those speakers.

I have almost this exact setup, and for the price, it sounds amazing. The only difference is a $80 Polk Audio sub instead of the Energy Take sub.
The 5.0 Energy Take was $150, I think. add $80 for the PA sub.
Add $300 for the receiver (Onkyo, Pioneer, etc), and it's just over $500.

Easily fills a 18' x 30' room.

 

[Geral]

Ok thanks for the answer ill take a look on those brands.

Anyone can answer my last questions plis? Before i go see what i can buy here.

Whats most important, the receiver or the speakers? or how much less important is the receiver?

I ask this because i might replace the speakers in the future if i have some spare money, but i think a receiver is a much harder change, or what is the priority i should take? better speakers or better receiver? (i notice you didnt give much importance to the receiver, why?)

IF the conection is hdmi from the pc to the receiver, the sound card does absolutly nothing for the sound? (I suppose it doesnt)
For a karaoke, i suppose the mics plug onto the receiver right?
What are good brands of speakers and receivers?

 

[USAFRet]

Under $500 or so, receiver brand is more feature set rater than 'sound'. Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer....all good.
Speakers? That is actually a very personal decision. As stated, I love my Energy Take + Polk Audio sub. But every room and every ear is different.

 

[Geral]

Ok so i could only find Harman Kardon (is this a good brand?)

I ask for a receiver, but they suggested me an "amplifier". Wich one should i get and whats the difference?

[link]http/www.harmankardon.com/estore/hk/us/shop/Receivers-%26-Amplifiers/cat370038[/link]

Whats the difference between a receiver (HK models there) and an amplifier (AVR models).

 

[iam2thecrowe]

Ok so i could only find Harman Kardon (is this a good brand?)

I ask for a receiver, but they suggested me an "amplifier". Wich one should i get and whats the difference?

[link]http/www.harmankardon.com/estore/hk/us/shop/Receivers-%26-Amplifiers/cat370038[/link]

Whats the difference between a receiver (HK models there) and an amplifier (AVR models).

i do find it hard to believe that harmon kardon (offshoot of JBL i believe, or own jbl cant remember) is the only brand you have access to. but yeah, they are generally good.
http/www.harmankardon.com/estore/hk/us/products/AVR-1710/AVR%201710_HK_US?skuId=AVR%201710_HK_US&searchMode=regularProductOnly&sCatId=cat370041
that one has analog audio in, which is the best way to connect your PC (i think)
Something about speakers, generally, for music, Bigger speakers sound better, or at least the front left and right speakers. For movies you can get away with smaller "sattellite" speaker packages and a sub, music can sound a little thin on them though. Pick your receiver first then we can get down to speakers.

 

[Geral]

Well i tried to find sony at least, but it seems they only have home theaters and no receivers at all, ill try find some more stores (im from South America - Bolivia btw).

Thanks for the suggestion but whats the difference between those models? HK models and AVR models? Im almost sure i have to get an avr, but just wanna be totally sure.

Ill let you all know which one i can buy so i can have some suggestions.
Another question, would it be better to get a 7.1 receiver or a 5.1 (ill get 5.1 speakers first, but maybe thinking in upgrading in the future)?

Thx

 

[USAFRet]

A receiver is an amplifier + AM/FM radio functions.

AVR = Audio/Video receiver. It does all the normal audio functions, plus it can pass video (generally HDMI) out to a TV.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

A receiver is an amplifier + AM/FM radio functions.

AVR = Audio/Video receiver. It does all the normal audio functions, plus it can pass video (generally HDMI) out to a TV.

to add, you want something that can decode dolby digital/dts sound, which most devices marketed as "home theatre or AVR receivers will do. But do check the specs.

 

[ssddx]

so about 32 x 22ft for those of us still on the imperial measurement system... or a fair sized living room.

generally for such a large space bookshelf speakers or larger are recommended to fill the space with sound. satelites (the energy 5.1 are satelites) may not always be loud enough for some people in larger rooms but will work if need be and if you are on a tight budget.

generally the receiver should cost about 25% to %30 of your budget. while the receiver is certainly important, speakers are a bit more so on a tight budget. when talking about base models of receiver brand is most important for reliability but you also need to note how many watts per channel at what ohm level it can output. when you start comparing features with features prices tend to be a bit higher end.

yes, you can upgrade speakers later on... provided you have a receiver with enough power for better or larger speakers in the future. something which can do 100w @ 8ohm should handle most speakers on the market nowdays.

for karaoke the mic would need to be on the pc. the only difference is that instead of your pc broadcasting the sound through your soundcard it would do so via hdmi to your home theater. your onboard soundcard will only be used for the mic.

you may want to think over your idea of 7.1 in the future a second time. there is alot of content for 5.1 (which makes it a good idea) however much less for 7.1 and even less for 9.1 which make them questionable expenses. i would personally say that a better 5.1 is a better choice then an average 7.1 system.

i have no idea what is available in your country and what costs would be... bolivia is a new one for me so have no info on where to buy or what is marketed there... you would need to provide info on that.

not all home theater in a box (htib) sets are complete trash, just many of them. there are certainly some which sound reasonably good for the cost and do allow connecting surround sound hdmi choices. you only need to be very careful about them and what you get. build quality is going to be worse and you would be getting a dvd/br player which you dont need though which you dont want/need so there are certainly good reasons to avoid them.

 

[Geral]

so about 32 x 22ft for those of us still on the imperial measurement system... or a fair sized living room.

generally for such a large space bookshelf speakers or larger are recommended to fill the space with sound. satelites (the energy 5.1 are satelites) may not always be loud enough for some people in larger rooms but will work if need be and if you are on a tight budget.

generally the receiver should cost about 25% to %30 of your budget. while the receiver is certainly important, speakers are a bit more so on a tight budget. when talking about base models of receiver brand is most important for reliability but you also need to note how many watts per channel at what ohm level it can output. when you start comparing features with features prices tend to be a bit higher end.

yes, you can upgrade speakers later on... provided you have a receiver with enough power for better or larger speakers in the future. something which can do 100w @ 8ohm should handle most speakers on the market nowdays.

for karaoke the mic would need to be on the pc. the only difference is that instead of your pc broadcasting the sound through your soundcard it would do so via hdmi to your home theater. your onboard soundcard will only be used for the mic.

you may want to think over your idea of 7.1 in the future a second time. there is alot of content for 5.1 (which makes it a good idea) however much less for 7.1 and even less for 9.1 which make them questionable expenses. i would personally say that a better 5.1 is a better choice then an average 7.1 system.

i have no idea what is available in your country and what costs would be... bolivia is a new one for me so have no info on where to buy or what is marketed there... you would need to provide info on that.

not all home theater in a box (htib) sets are complete trash, just many of them. there are certainly some which sound reasonably good for the cost and do allow connecting surround sound hdmi choices. you only need to be very careful about them and what you get. build quality is going to be worse and you would be getting a dvd/br player which you dont need though which you dont want/need so there are certainly good reasons to avoid them.

Thanks mate for still answering

So yes, Harman/Kardon is the receiver i can get, wich one will you guys choose?

AVR's Harman/Kardon

I dont see 100 wats 8ohms on 5.1 receivers there. Also what does 6/8 ohms mean? is that good?

 

[ssddx]

if you click on specifications you will see the numbers.

the avr700 likely will not work as it only has 75w @6ohm.

the avr2650 is the same price as the avr1510 and has 95w @8ohms while the avr1510 has only 75w @8ohm

ohms measure the resistance of speakers. if you want an in depth explanation you can read http/www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm but basically since the speakers you were interested in are 8ohm and rated for 100w you need to get a receiver rated for 8ohm and with a fair bit of power. 75w will work but the 95w will be better for future proofing if you wanted to get bigger speakers later on.


i would say the 2650 if you can get it... otherwise the 1510 looks like it would work.

 

[Geral]

Right,

But the 1510 says 6/8 ohms

What does that mean? Is that a problem?

 

[ssddx]

that part has me a bit baffled as well.

its quite common for avr's to support different impedance speakers (ohm) but they are typically rated at different power output (watts) for those impedences.

such as 150w@2ohm, 130w@6ohm, 90w@8ohm or similar (or 100/75/50... and other similar progressions).

i find it odd that they list 75w for both 6ohm and 8ohm.

the 2650 however clearly states its 8ohm output.

it makes things more difficult when companies do not list all of their specs...

--

down to the point....

would they work? technically yes, even the avr700 likely supports 8ohm and will power speakers.. likely at around 50w output. however, it will not get as loud as a unit with a better amp (but likely loud enough if just powering satelite size speakers) and since it has low output it may not support larger speakers very well in the future. since you wanted to upgrade in the future and since it may be a bit underpowered this is why i was questioning those choices and pushing the 2650 instead. if the costs on that site are to be believed the 2650=1510 in terms of cost