Former MS VP Speculates on Windows Phone's Slow Adoption

[ap3x]

[citation][nom]jryan388[/nom]Too bad that Android's lax rules have created android-haters out of two of my family that got a particularly bad-performing Samsung Transform that runs like molasses, crashes constantly, and cant run the majority of the android market apps.[/citation]

That is a great point. You have to have some some rules and set some guidelines. I understand the appeal of having a so called unrestricted OS but when you have a OS with out any sort of standardization of hardware you run into issues where you can not use it for much more than the base functionality because it does not have the capacity to do much else.

It is like when people would buy the cheapest computer they could find and it had Windows XP and everything on it but it came with 256 meg of ram. Ran great for the first day you used it then it is virtually unusable a week later.

People who understand computing know that these devices are not toasters. The why pay this when I can pay for the same thing does not apply as much with computing devices. You get what you pay for on these devices. Cell Phones are pretty much the same way.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]ap3x[/nom]Very different. MS does not provide the hardware and the marketing ~~ All that stuff costs money. ~ It looks like a nice OS though and I would not mind using it.[/citation] There have been a few carrier iPhone ADs (AT&T has data while on a call).

Download WP7 Launcher from the Android Market... it'll give you the look and feel of WP7... make sure you play with the settings. You can choose icon types.

Your points about requirements and cheap are good and valid.

@amk-aka-phantom : You can't fix stupid. Avg people can only do so much... even us techies can learn and do so much. A phone should be EASY to use. Why take 3-4 clicks to do something that should take 1~2? stuff like that.

 

[redeemed]

Maybe it's just because people are so wary of Microsoft and their monopolistic tendencies that no one in their right mind wants that to happen on the mobile platform. I know I would never own a MS phone if I had any kind of real choice, I don't care how great it is.

Same goes for Android. I hope Apple keeps making a great product, so Google doesn't become complacent or become a monopoly.

 

[Camikazi]

[citation][nom]crom[/nom]Here's a tip for Microsoft, don't call your phone "Windows Phone 7". Its a terrible name.Apple: iPhoneGoogle: Android RIM: BlackberryKeep it simple Microsoft, its the one thing that you've never been good at as a company![/citation]
Think you could be a bit more consistent? iPhone is a phone, iOS is the software that runs it, Android is the software while the phones are called MANY different things. RIM is the only one who kept is the same, Blackberry for phone Blackberry OS for the software.

 

[jacobdrj]

Slow adoption is because of a lack of apps and a lack of high end phone options... If they wanted to get a lot of volume penetration, they should have focused on the pre-paid market. They should have absolutely flooded it with subsidized phones.

 

[heartburnkid]

[citation][nom]Agges[/nom]And how is this different than what Apple did and does?[/citation]

Android didn't exist when Apple started doing it.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]Mazze[/nom]The main problem is that Windows adopts way too slowly. It (still!) supports only single-core CPUs[/citation]You know, I hear this argument a lot, but I have yet to see a good example of this holding them back in terms of functionality. The software is clearly happy with what it has. Don't get me wrong, they'll eventually need more cores, as the single-core solutions are only going to scale so far. MSM8255 is plenty for this iteration of devices, given good optimization.

"But.. but it's not dual core! It won't be able to... uh... err... IT ONLY HAS ONE CORE!"

And no, I don't own a WP7 device, and given Verizon's WP7 lineup, I doubt I will. As a hilarious side note, if you walk into a Verizon store and ask about one, they try and use the Jedi Mind Trick on you to get you into the phone that gives them the largest kickback that month - usually one of the latest Android phones.

 

[schwizer]

I have a W7, not bad, does what i need it to, outlook, gmail, contacts.

Doesn't have skype which is part of MS.
Doesn't have MOC which is part of MS>

iPhone has both of these.

Why?

 

[eddieroolz]

He makes sense in his speculation, and I'd wager this is actually the case.

Apple can get away with their super-closed ecosystem because they have the brand appeal like Louis Vuitton. At the same time, Windows Phone does not.

Both iOS and WP7 runs very smoothly on (comparably) outdated hardware, while Android still lags even with dual core.

Carriers are also a big factor in driving innovation, like NTTdocomo spearheading the development of 3G and 4G LTE but when you've got a carrier like AT&T then consumers end up hurt.

In the end, it would be nice to see Microsoft either loosen up, or provide some form of incentive to make WP7 attractive.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]schwizer[/nom]I have a W7, not bad, does what i need it to, outlook, gmail, contacts.Doesn't have skype which is part of MS.Doesn't have MOC which is part of MS>iPhone has both of these.Why?[/citation]I'm pretty sure Skype will be integrated into WP7 in an upcoming update. Tango, I'm guessing.

 

[Guest]

I love my Windows phone, Its so damn smooth.

 

[fb39ca4]

Most WP7 users are probably MS employees and their families.

 

[alidan]

I didn't read this yet, let me post my own speculations.

1) Windows phone doesn't sell cool. The iPhone has tricked people into a few by your buying cool. Does also people who want an iPhone but don't want to deal with Apple, in comes android.

2) people who just want to use a phone, don't get smart phones. Don't settle for whatever's the cheapest usually TracFone.

3) Windows phones at least to me have it to minimalist user interface. IPhone and android also have minimalist interfaces, but they're not minimalist to what a Windows phone was. To average person it would just seem like to make a stupid phone for you because you don't know how to use a phone.

4) really poor marketing. I have not seen one commercial on TV for Windows phone, yet every single commercial break there's either an iPhone or an android phone being advertised.

5) you don't have a "hot" celebrity using the phone. You want to attract people will buy something just because someone they like is using it, you need one of these.

6) iPhone, for better or worse, worked right out of the box, it was what it claimed to be. Windows phone, for a long time all I heard is people being disappointed with it. Either this is they expected an iPhone, the phone under delivered, the phone was unable to do it claimed, where people were just trolling.

7) market saturation. You have an iPhone, you have android, both with immense app libraries, something Windows phone I don't believe can claim. There was never any real spot for Windows phone, at least until Windows phone 8 because the promised integration between phone tablet laptop and PC, at that point Windows phone might gain some traction because it has something the others don't.

These are really just my thoughts on it, I'm guessing many of these are wrong, or right for the wrong reasons.

 

[trandoanhung1991]

I think MS is learning from Windows and Android to a certain extent.

And tbh, it seems like everyone who had ever tried a WP7 phone loves it. And that's with old, dated hardware. It's similar to iOS, however WP7 does not have that marketing it needs to move up.

Think about it, when was the last time you saw an advert for an OS? I'd wager maybe 2-3 in the last 5 years. Compare that to the number of adverts for devices using the OS.

Most people don't give a damn what the OS is. They want a nice phone that works. iPhone used to be the pinnacle of this.

With the partnership with Nokia, I think Microsoft is finally getting serious about promoting its WP7 platform, especially since it will have a "dedicated" handset manufacturer, like Apple does.

Microsoft is like Intel to a certain extent. They can get lazy and complacent at times, but once they're determined, their competitors should be very very afraid.

 

[Guest]

In 2005 I owned a Windows Mobile Phone with MS Office etc - it took me just 3 days to recognize the only thing itwas good was to play a brick related game. Then in 2008 I bought a HTC Diamond Touch instead of an iPhone. The only thing it was good was another game - other than that it sucked. It was not good to phone or any other thing - especially syncing any files or file transfer was almost impossible; XP, Vista and Windows 7 had trouble recognizing the phone. I was tired of communicating with the device over bluetooth - one file at a time. All I needed was to communicate with windows, and none of these suckers were good at what they were supposed to do.

Then in 2010, I needed to change that HTC with a used iPhone for a project - a device I had shunned for years. Two minutes after I set my hands on that used iPhone 3G, I was in love with it. 30 minutes later I was able to sync with my three laptops : XP, Vista and Win 7. I was able to conenct to internet and especially the mails ... it was so painless !

The biggest mistake in my life has been purchasing that HTC Diamond Touch, and I explain it to anyone like this :"I make my living by fixing Windows, and thank god it consistently fails. Knowing how I make my living, but still purchasing a smartphone running Windows is simply idiotic."

What is the conception of Windows to the lay people ? What do they hear most about Windows ? What are they told whenever their computers fail ? "It is a Windows problem" ! After 30 years of associating PC and laptops with Windows, almost all problems are associated with Windows - even if it is a hardware problem or third party software problem.

Now, after ten years or so torturing people like me with their "so called smartphones", Microsoft people claim "they made an excellent phone OS". Furthermore, just like the guy who screamed Wolf, they are unable to understand why no one believes them.

Well guys... After 10 years of showing us (customers) the finger, now it is your turn to see the finger. It is so simple : you can fool most people for a long time, but once they see something better, you can not do it anymore.

From this point onward, no matter what you do, people will not purchase any sh!te labeled as "Windows phone".

 

[Guest]

When the ship hits the sand, and the Captain of Development departs, should we believe his story that it was fault of someone else?

Microsoft made a development decision; reset everything in 2008, and create a Silverlight programable phone. They lost functionality from Windows Mobile 6.0 in their concentration on Silverlight. They came to market years after the Android and iPhone.

The result was they lost their 50% market share of early 2007 to a trivial one in 2011. Sounds like the impact of a development decision, made for long term benefit, and a short term loss. Perhaps we will see the benefits next year, or the year afterwards, or whenever phone users decide there was any value in the development decision.




http/blogs.msdn.com/b/ckindel/archive/2010/02/22/focus-focus-focus.aspx wrote:

" For example, we prioritized the developer segments we would target:
1.Consumer Developer - Pro Devs who build products that are sold directly or given out for free to general public end-users.
2.Non-Pro Developer - Non-Pro Developers building products for academic/personal use.
3.In-ROM Developer - Pro Devs who build products & technologies that are sold to mobile operators or device manufacturers.
4.Enterprise Developer –Pro Devs who build apps & technologies that are sold to corporate clients and businesses.
5.IT Developer - Pro Devs who build apps & technologies that are only for use by their own corporation.

 

[belardo]

The Sony Playstation phone is a single core gaming Android phone... which could really use a dual core CPU, yet that is what SONY went with.

 

[belardo]

@ alidan : I think you have some valid points... MS & Nokia needs to promote their phones and Nokia is still doing their roll-out. Hardware wise, WP7 phones are no better or worse than their Android counterparts. Personally, apps and such mean little to me - I want phone that functions easily and quickly.

When I upgraded to Froyo on my phone, its irritating that Google would be so stupid as to degrade the call-log function to the point its almost useless. Stupid stuff like that Apple wouldn't do and MS perhaps, would not. Making my phone experience worse than it needs to be is not how to keep customers.

Apple didn't trick anyone... Everyone advertises their own BS. MS tricked people into using crappy DOS systems in the 80s when there were more advanced computers. Android is open, yet its fragmentation creates problems. Sure, apple fan boys will buy anything. But most of Apple's new customers that started with iPods and iPhones are new... They made products THAT WORKED.

I bought an iPad and it fracking works out of the box. My Android phone has never been that good about it and STILL is sub-standard to Apple's iTunes . whatnot. By all means, I do like having direct access to my directories on my Android - but sometimes its a mess and for the average human being, that is WAY to much over their heads.

Many of my Windows PC clients bought iPhones. My main clients had Windows Mobile and Blackberries that worked half-ass. I had the president try out the iPhone2 after his blackberry screwed up (again) in which case everyone in the office quickly went to the iPhone and NEVER EVER looked back.

I don't own an iPhone and I never bought an Apple product until the iPad1 last March.

@ fbca119 : I hear you on that.

I'm no fan of any particular company. Because I'm not impressed with Androids ability to connect and communicate with desktop/notebook computers - I can't see myself buying an Android tablet... even thou I'm interested in the Thinkpad Tablet as a contender (once it has resolution upgrade). I do own and sell ThinkPads (best keyboards), Samsung for displays, SONY for some items (I like their headphones) and used to buy their cellphones - I go with what I think gets me the best for my money.

I don't have any love for Mac or Apple... but I do like my iPad and will most likely replace it with the iPad3.

I will most likely have a Windows8 Nokia phone by this time next year... I don't like the iOS or Android interfaces on a 4" screen.

 

[alidan]

[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]@ alidan : I think you have some valid points... MS & Nokia needs to promote their phones and Nokia is still doing their roll-out. Hardware wise, WP7 phones are no better or worse than their Android counterparts. Personally, apps and such mean little to me - I want phone that functions easily and quickly. When I upgraded to Froyo on my phone, its irritating that Google would be so stupid as to degrade the call-log function to the point its almost useless. Stupid stuff like that Apple wouldn't do and MS perhaps, would not. Making my phone experience worse than it needs to be is not how to keep customers.Apple didn't trick anyone... Everyone advertises their own BS. MS tricked people into using crappy DOS systems in the 80s when there were more advanced computers. Android is open, yet its fragmentation creates problems. Sure, apple fan boys will buy anything. But most of Apple's new customers that started with iPods and iPhones are new... They made products THAT WORKED.I bought an iPad and it fracking works out of the box. My Android phone has never been that good about it and STILL is sub-standard to Apple's iTunes . whatnot. By all means, I do like having direct access to my directories on my Android - but sometimes its a mess and for the average human being, that is WAY to much over their heads.Many of my Windows PC clients bought iPhones. My main clients had Windows Mobile and Blackberries that worked half-ass. I had the president try out the iPhone2 after his blackberry screwed up (again) in which case everyone in the office quickly went to the iPhone and NEVER EVER looked back.I don't own an iPhone and I never bought an Apple product until the iPad1 last March.@ fbca119 : I hear you on that.I'm no fan of any particular company. Because I'm not impressed with Androids ability to connect and communicate with desktop/notebook computers - I can't see myself buying an Android tablet... even thou I'm interested in the Thinkpad Tablet as a contender (once it has resolution upgrade). I do own and sell ThinkPads (best keyboards), Samsung for displays, SONY for some items (I like their headphones) and used to buy their cellphones - I go with what I think gets me the best for my money.I don't have any love for Mac or Apple... but I do like my iPad and will most likely replace it with the iPad3.I will most likely have a Windows8 Nokia phone by this time next year... I don't like the iOS or Android interfaces on a 4" screen.[/citation]

with a smart phone I can kind of forgive crappy sound on it just because of all the other stuff that does. But if I wanted a phone to just be a phone, I would want to $100 microphone and $100 speaker, I mean in all seriousness I cannot understand half the crap that's ever said on his cell phone, and even if only one person uses that phone I still have trouble figuring out if it's that person using the phone.

Microsoft also church people and using DirectX over OpenGL, I'm too young to actually understand what they did during the DOS era though, I can read about it but I didn't live through it. But from my understanding Microsoft was a fairly good software company they put out DOS made programs for DOS and that's what attracted people to it. The more people who get attracted the bigger the community grows the harder it is to stop.

I use and ipad 2 and an iPod Touch, backing up is quite possibly the most horrific thing I've ever done than anything with those two devices. I have no clue what I'm doing to back that up. The fact that there's no directories and I can easily drag and drop makes it almost impossible for me to even figure out if anything's work and not. The first time we had this switch the IOS I gave it over someone who lives macs, believers may have a Windows system is because their job required, otherwise there will there waiting in line for every new Apple product. And even he couldn't back up everything on iPod Touch. We still have no idea how contacts lost all of its information. that said, aside from that one gripe, they do more or less work right out of the box. I never use an android device, but I'm assuming that out of the box usability varies from carrier to carrier.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]with a smart phone I can kind of forgive crappy sound on it just because of all the other stuff that does. But if I wanted a phone to just be a phone,[/citation]
The market of "just a phone" is pretty much gone... and even feature phones can do MP3s, photos, videos, etc. Apple pushed GOOD photos to replace crappy cel-phone photos, which by the-way, hurts the Point-and-Shoot Digital camera market ($75~100 camera range).
My previous SONY "dumb" phone had two stereo speakers that smokes my Samsung Android - microphone, typical. I rarely have problems understanding who I'm talking to or what they are saying. landlines are still better. Smart phones will just get more powerful.

[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]~I'm too young to actually understand what they did during the DOS era though, I can read about it but I didn't live through it. But from my understanding Microsoft was a fairly good software company they put out DOS made programs for DOS and that's what attracted people to it[/citation]
I'm not. My first real computer was in 1983, a Commodore VIC 20 (google screen shots) a 1mhz, 3.5k, 8 color keyboard computer. Getting the C=128 (2mhz / 80col display) was a big deal... I worked min.wage and spent $280 for a 320k floppy drive. A full blown computer in the mid 80s with a 20mb HD and 13" color monitor was about $2000~8000. I remember when having 4096 colors was LIFE-LIKE! Needless to say, my 7yr old son has a quad-core AMD, 4GB RAM with an ATI 4670 card.

With that said... MS-DOS was always pure crap. MS was a crappy software company - but a top-notch BUSINESS company (There is a difference). There is very little that MS actually does that is original and their own. I'd say Metro/WP7 is one of the FEW things MS actually created. MS-DOS, IE, MS-Word, etc - all bought out/etc with a MS-sticker stuck on its face.
Click on your start menu, type in CMD or COMMAND - give MS-DOS a try. Some commands "DIR" "IPCONFIG" "EDIT"... The functionality of the DOS Shell in Windows XP~7 is STILL substandard to a 1989 Amiga OS 2.0

With MSDOS, that is what you had. A single tasking crap OS that should have been dead before 1990. But IBM did something stupid and MS took advantage. IBM threw together the PC with generic parts and licensed "PC-DOS" from Microsoft. Thus, allowing the creation of Compatibles and Clones like Compaq and Dell to get into the business... and MS sold them MS-DOS. MAC and Amiga had GUI OS since 1984/85. Amiga had multitasking since it came out in 85. (I bought my first Amiga in 1989) using a DOS system was always painful. Imagine using WindowsXP~7 at home, then go to school/work using MSDOS! And the MS-DOS back then is far crappier than what you see in your pretty window. MSDOS has an 8.3 filename limitation. What is that? Today, when you save a file name, it can be LONG, with upper and lower case characters and spaces. The way Amiga and Macs did since their introductions. With 8 characters, ALL your files names suck: Instead of "Photoshop ES 5" you'd have "PHTOSHOP.EXE" and your own files would be simple like "VHSLIST1.TXT"

It wouldn't be until 1995 with Windows95 that MS has a mainstream OS that has long-file names (well, not 100% - but better than 8.3). Win95 is MS's first GUI OS for the masses (Windows NT 3.5 ~ 4.0 are nightmares) - yet Win9X still had lots of DOS twisted in - which was needed for crappy MS-DOS compatibility. Its not until XP that MS has a modern OS that meet or beat what others made 10 years before... and even XP's setup is STILL substandard to a 1989 Amiga. Amiga died due to stupidity of its owners (the same type of idiots who run HP... but worse) - yet Amigas were cheaper than PC or MAC. Apple kept a closed system. Thus, MS was able to take over the market with garbage.

Window7, while not perfect - is the first enjoyable OS I've used from MS. I think if WIn8 is done right - it'll be a step for a new way of using computers. I will give credit where credit is due.

[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]I use and ipad 2 and an iPod Touch, backing up is quite possibly the most horrific thing I've ever done than anything with those two devices. ~~ The first time we had this switch the IOS I gave it over someone who lives macs ~~ I never use an android device, but I'm assuming that out of the box usability varies from carrier to carrier.[/citation]
Upgrading to iOS 5.x on my iPad was pretty straight forward. Lost my apps, but re-loading them was a non-issue. Of course, anything can happen... Backups are stored within itunes / sub-directories within Windows... depending on your settings. For novices, its best to let it handle it all.

Android? Out-of-box use and upgrades can vary between brand and model. iProducts are generally upgradeable within reason. A 6 month to 2 year old Android may never see a major OS update without rooting. I'm pretty sure those $100~200 generic tablets with Android 2.x will never run Ice Cream.

Google or Wikipedia: Commodore vic20 and 128, Amiga 1000, Amiga 3000, Mac Plus, mac II, IBM Personal System/2 check them out on wiki for sure.

Needless to say, today’s free contract smart phones have more computing power, more storage space, better graphics and functionality than all those computers combined.