Help me get the best home theater sound quality possible for my PC

[sugetsu]

Hello, I have been looking all over the internet for an upgrade for my current sound system, although I believe it sounds great, people all over the net say that I can do much better and I would like to test these claims personally.

First here is my current system specs:

HT Omega claro 2 sound card.
Z906 5.1 speakers.
Tri x R9 290.
I7 4770k.
Windows 8.1
I am using DTS Interactive through digital out.

After much searching I have come to understand that:

1) The sound quality of my sound card is as good as DACs found on high end receivers. If possible I would like to just find better 5.1 or 7.1 home theater speakers that can plugged into it.

2) The z906 lack dedicated tweeters which don't make them a good choice for music listening.

3) If I buy a receiver my sound card would be entirely bypassed, making it a complete waste.

4) Based on hardware reviews of my sound card it is supposedly so good that it is a waste to use it with speakers such as the ones I have.

5) A high end receiver can provide the absolutely best possible audio due to its high quality amp and DAC.

Taking all this into consideration, I believe that the easiest solution is just to upgrade my speakers but it seems that beyond the z906 the Edifier s550 are my only other choice when comes to upgrading my computer speakers. The big problem is, the edifiers are really hard to find. Hence, I am thinking that that there must be some way to connect regular home theater speakers into my system via a digital amplifier or perhaps use a receiver that has some sort of pass through function that allows my sound card's signal to remain intact.

I am only theoretically familiar with receivers, pre amps, and amps. I would really appreciate any input on this matter.

What is then the smartest way to improve my sound system? Use my sound card or turn to another device?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ssddx]

2)

if you are using optical then you need DDL (or comparative) compression in order to get 5.1 output, otherwise it would be just uncompressed stereo.

if you are using hdmi or optical it must be in a digital format as they do not support analog. therefore the receiver dac is at work. in terms of processing of the sound coming from the source this could be influenced by the source you are using and the type of encoding originally on the audio. it might also be because you are using optical not hdmi.

conclusion)

is your z906 in great condition? if so, you may want to list it and the cards in our deals section (following the rules posted at the top of course). i'm sure there are some people here interested if you could ship them out.

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good to see that you are happy with the energys. i still say hdmi would have been a better route but that is your choice to make not mine.

who are used as the background for monitors #2 and #3?

 

[sugetsu]

Antimatter79, I definitely check with the guys at AVSforum, they should have some great deals for me to check out.

ssddx, I am not denying or confirming which DACs are at work here. The picture I posted above clearly showed that receiver is interpreting the input signal as analog. I don't really understand what that means at this point. However I have confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that sound quality changes depending on the source. Therefore, I am keeping my sound card as it is clearly giving me higher quality sound than the motherboard's.

I might use my video card's HDMI for HD DTS or the like if I ever feel like renting or buying a blue ray movie or music video. Although now that I have the capability I am actually considering it.

who are used as the background for monitors #2 and #3?

#2 Lana Del Rey #3 Aion wallpaper.

 

[ssddx]

do a hdmi VS claro-optical test for audio quality will you?

i'd like to know your thoughts on the results. i can use that information in case anyone else comes asking the same questions.

in sound settings dont forget to push playback device quality to 192,000hz when hooked up via hdmi.

 

[sugetsu]

On what kind of sound file I should perform such a test? I only have 320kbs mp3s and some flacs from some video games.

 

[ssddx]

the same tests you did using onboard vs claro vs Z. that way you can throw your opinion into how it stacks into the lineup you already tested.

 

[sugetsu]

I was under the impression that HDMI had the sole advantage of more bandwidth that allows for Master audio and other high end codecs to work, but I don't haven any files encoded in any of those formats.

The way I tested my set up was with 320kbs mp3s, flacs and all equalization set to flat. I will do the same thing over HDMI and tell you the results.

 

[ssddx]

i would suggest playing a dvd movie as well (testing 5.1 on hdmi vs on your optical connection). if you dont have a movie then you can try these 5.1 files http/www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-plus-download.html

hdmi does allow for better surround sound because of more bandwidth.

however, going with hdmi will also take your onboard sound out of the equation (relying on your video card for output) and i'm curious to hear your thoughts on whether you like the optical-out from your soundcard or hdmi-out from your video card when playing sound on your speakers.

when testing make sure that in sound playback devices you click configure and set your quality to maximum. hdmi can handle the bandwidth.

 

[sugetsu]

Ok, I have finally gotten around testing the HT omega claro vs HDMI out. Sorry I took so long but I had to get a longer hdmi cable to do the testing.

For this test I decided to use my HTC One's phone camera, which I might add has a decent microphone (it even picked up my own breathing XD), and recorded 3 videos with the following testing patterns: the same volume levels, the same uncompressed WAV sound file, one video with no sound enhancements and another with best dps enhancements.

Even though the camera won't pick up all the subtleties that come from listening live you can still recognize quite clearly the sound difference.


HT omega, no DSP enhancements:

5.1 Surround sound on HT Omega claro 2 via Digital out. No sound enhancements applied.
http/youtu.be/UePfvulZulk

HT omega with sound enhancements applied:
5.1 surround sound on HT omega claro 2 via Digital out. Best sound enhancements applied.
http/youtu.be/izqx_CGRjEI

HDMI to RX V373:
5.1 Surround sound on R9 290 via HDMI to rx v373 receiver. First part of the video shows the configuration and the second half shows sound quality reproduction through different DSP enhancements.
http/youtu.be/fVe8pPQ-QHI


The results speak for themselves: The sound card sounded clearer, louder, the sound was warmer and more enveloping. The HDMI sounded well, I am quite sure that the sound quality would have been much higher if I had used a high end receiver. I did not bother showing a video of it at 192,000Mhz as the receiver was not able to apply any DSP effects while running at the bandwidth, it sounded exactly the same as in the first half of the HDMI video. The equalization level on the receiver was done automatically via the YPAO mic that comes with it. It remained the same throughout all tests.

The HDMI out does sound way better than my motherboard. If I did no have a high end sound card I would have definitely gone with my video card as my primary sound device. It could only get better depending on the quality of the receiver.

My conclusion is that a sound card does make a large difference in sound quality, mostly because the user has much more control of the equalization, due to the nature of the PC. I firmly believe that setting your computer as media center is the smartest and most budget friendly way to achieve audiophile quality levels. If you opt for the classic receiver + TV + Ipod + speakers setup you are really limiting yourself in terms of flexibility, as you won't be able to add new software that could help you increase sound fidelity. For example: The Enhancer plugging on the winamp player makes a large difference in sound quality and any person who cares about audio should not overlook it, it is a must for any decent sound system.

This has been one heck of learning experience. I hope that all my efforts to shed light on this issue help others as much as it has helped me.

Thank you all.

 

[ssddx]

very interesting and helpful. thank you for taking the time to write up your opinion.

my thoughts are that EQ plays a huge role here although it could be that the claro has a warm overtone that you like. some dac/amps (which is what a soundcard is plus the software element) do generate a unique sound to them which might appeal to people.

keep in mind that its possible to use an EQ with the hdmi out as well. this could improve the sound of using hdmi to similar levels (but it might not have the warmness which may be unique to the claro) if you didnt have a soundcard.

i do agree that playing files on your computer is a great idea and it will give you lots of customization you might not get if you used receiver settings alone however i dont agree that it replaces them either.

if you absolutely must use other sources then it can be hard to get the input signal into the pc (stereo is fine but surround sound can be an issue). in such cases some decent level receivers DO have eq adjustments that you could make to fine tune sounds to your liking. it might not give the "warm" feel that the claro does but all receivers can also sound different. just as a claro will not sound like a soundblaster z or the asus xonar. there is a unique sound signature to all of them.

 

[sugetsu]

You are right about sound signatures. I wish I could understand that part a bit better. However, can we now declare the whole external-DACs-make-sound-cards-useless mantra as false now?

Is there anyway to preserve this info? I think i will be highly valuable to others.

Edit: Perhaps if you changed the tittle and format of this thread? I am thinking that Tomshardware would be able write an excellent article based on similar findings, if only they tested a much larger number of cards, receivers and speaker combinations.

 

[ssddx]

i would if it were not true in most cases. your particular setup is more of an oddity (you are using a fairly expensive soundcard AND a fairly expensive receiver... most people wouldnt want both). also optical output is inferior to hdmi for quality (optical is compressed surround and limited formats.

this would be good info to add to my speakers guide i will be creating (future link to be in my signature). perhaps send me a pm reminder about adding it

 

[sugetsu]

^ The receiver is one of the cheapest one there is. It is $199 on Amazon. It is the rx v373. I just picked it because it was highly recommended.

http/www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V373-5-1-Channel-AV-Receiver/dp/B007JF8FD8

The sound card, on the other hard is expensive, it cost $180 on newegg: http/www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271007&cm_re=ht_omega_claro_2-_-29-271-007-_-Product

 

[ssddx]

perhaps i should rephrase that...

you're spending $380 on dac+amp when the speakers are only $400. or put another way, spending $780 when you could have spent only $580.

most people would find that to excess which is why i say that your setup is more of an oddity. mine is also an oddity since i spent a bit more than 50% of my budget on a receiver (i wanted the features it had). generally its adviseable to spend only between 25-30% on the dac+receiver (or up to 50% for solutions under $500 since receivers cost at bare minimum about $200)

--

by the way, what are your thoughts about the energy speakers themselves? well worth the money?

 

[sugetsu]

I did mention that I would go the HDMI route if I didn't have a good sound card. The DACs/amps on even a entry receiver like mine are way better than onboard sound, so you can subtract $180. The Energy speakers cost me $300 on amazon, but they just went up a $100.

I spent a total of $590 for my whole sound set up; I paid $150 for the receiver at Microcenter, they were on sale. $140 for my sound card at newegg.com, it was on sale as well, and $300 for the energy take speakers. I am sure people can find good deals if they dig around a little.

As for the energy speakers, I couldn't be any happier, they sound incredible. Not only that, they look really good as well. I feel like I have paid bargain for something that should have cost twice or three times as much. However, I cannot stress enough that their sound quality is only as good as your weakest link; the bitrate of the sound file, the level of equalization and the dac/amp have as much of an impact on sound quality as the speakers alone. For example, one simple way to dramatically diminish the sound quality of my speakers would be to go with onborad sound.

 

[ssddx]

i bought my own hifi set perhaps 4 years ago... i often take it for granted now. i leave the covers on since i have a major dust problem.

around that time i also bought my half decent headphones.

since then... i cannot stand anything less than 192kbps mp3s

you are correct, the source matters quite a bit. however in order to use home theater speakers at all you need a receiver (or surround amp but those are even more money so arent viable) so this gets you at least into the realm of good soundcard dac quality at least.

its seems that you paid quite a good price. for $300 those energy speakers are a steal.

 

[sugetsu]

May I ask what your sound set up currently is?

The energy should not be hard to find for around $300, they were priced that much on amazon for well over two months.

I changed the tittle of this thread, the previous one was no longer appropriate.

 

[ssddx]

you can see people builds (if they have it filled out) when you however over their avatars.

since you asked... i'll post it here since its easier to view.

Equipment: case: corsair obsidian 750d
cpu: i7-920 @3.2ghz
cooler: hyper 212 evo
mobo: asus rampage iii extreme rog x58
ram: mushkin redline 3x2gb 1600mhz
gpu: evga gtx470
ssd: samsung 840 pro 512gb ssd
hdd: wd caviar black 2tb x2, corsair hx1000,
os: windows 7 pro 64bit
misc: 1x dvd 1x br drives,
screen: 40" sony bravia lcdtv
sound: pioneer vsx-30 receiver
sound: klipsch quintet iv 5.0 speakers
sound: klipsch 450w subwoofer
other: ps3, ps2, xs1300 apc
headphones: audiotechnica ath-m50s

if you click "build pics" in my signature you can see pretty pictures of it as well.

 

[sugetsu]

You might just be a bigger Otaku than I am... hehe

Nice set up by the way.

 

[ssddx]

i am not an otaku. in western culture the term is often used as meaning someone who collects and watches lots of anime which isnt quite true (it needs to be excessive to the point of them being sheltered and antisocial). typically people also wouldnt go out of their way to claim to be otaku as its not really seen as a good thing.

i am merely an anime fan who happens to collect some merchandise as well

i'm also an avid scifi/fantasy/horror buff and easily 2/3 of my collection is of those genres.

o·ta·ku
ōˈtäko͞o/
noun
(in Japan) a young person who is obsessed with computers or particular aspects of popular culture to the detriment of their social skills.

just for clarification purposes of course.

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thanks. everything might not be how i like it however it works out pretty good for me. i dont know if i could ever go back to small computer monitors again and i know i will not like to go back to computer speakers. i definitely would find it hard to work without a 6 foot wide desk too. it might sound silly but i need all that free space to feel comfortable. i tend to spread eagle on the whole center of the desk while working .