Help! nasty clicks and pops during digital recording

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Mike,

Thanks again for your efforts.

The point you raise about digital sync is a good one. I'll look into
it.


On 10 Feb 2005 20:29:11 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <ummn01t1kvgf8gu55265ik361so3ue2edi@4ax.com> harry@houdini.com writes:
>
>> Since there is only one digital device in the chain at any given time
>> (i.e., the Masterlink or the HD192), I was under the impression
>> I didn't need an external clock.
>
>If your mic preamp has a digital output that you're feeding to the digital input
>of the Masterlink of HD192, then you need to set the recording device so that
>it gets the clock from the input rather than running on its internal clock.
>Otherwise you'd likely get clicks, but they wouldn't necessarily be correlated
>with specific vocal sounds.
>
>If you're feeding the Masterlink or HD192 with an analog input, then the
>recording device should be running of its internal clock.
>
>It's worth checking.

 

[DB]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Whenever I have had problems like that it has been either from clipping
or more likely the clocks are not all set the same. ADAT has a
different clock than the internal clock on Digi002 for example.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey,

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. As you can see, the
problem is not analog, which would not have that kind of radical
square wave curve.

see below for review of what I've tried.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Here's my problem: when I record vocals, I always get these annoying
artifacts - clicks and pops. AAARGH! They seem to occur especially
around "f" and "v" sounds. Example, if I record someone - anyone -
saying 'Phillips Phonographic Records', clicks will be introduced at
any of the 'ph' sounds.

These clicks and pops occur regardless of

- vocalist
- recording w/without windscreen, popper
- which mic preamp I use (eg, UA LA610 and Focusrite 430mkii)
- different preamp gain settings (really quiet to really loud)
- mic impedence settings
- mic cable used
- mics used (414, tlm103, etc)
- sample/bit rates (44.1-16, 48-24, 96-24 etc)
- buffer sizes on audio card
- A/D converters used (Masterlink, MOTU HD192, etc)
- AC source

Additional info:

- the signal path: mic - mic pre - analog out - analog in on Alesis
Masterlink or MOTU HD192
- the spikes created by the clicks can be seen on the recorded
waveform
- the clicks can be heard on the input monitor
- the problem does not seem to come from the converters, as they
convert without clicks when I convert/import audio from, say, a
commercial CD.
- my guess is that these clicks are being created by the preamps or
microphones, that maybe there's some kind of voltage mismatch, but I'm
admittedly out of my depth here.
- this is not a digital synch issue - or probably isn't - since these
clicks occur with only one digital unit in the chain (i.e., Focusrite
430 analog out into analog in of Masterlink)

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated,

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Harry Houdini" <harry@houdini.com> schreef in bericht
news:9tu821h648tirnjhf75eno0pdge8hd7str@4ax.com...
> Hey,
>
> Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. As you can see, the
> problem is not analog, which would not have that kind of radical
> square wave curve.
>
> see below for review of what I've tried.
>
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> Here's my problem: when I record vocals, I always get these annoying
> artifacts - clicks and pops. AAARGH! They seem to occur especially
> around "f" and "v" sounds. Example, if I record someone - anyone -
> saying 'Phillips Phonographic Records', clicks will be introduced at
> any of the 'ph' sounds.

If it's related to the f and v-s of the vocalist, just let him sing slighty
aside the mic, not IN the mic. If it still happens maybe you are
having a 3-6kHz boost somewhere in your chain(EQ ?)

If it happens at random maybe a digital issue or something
in your mains power, refrigerator or whatever.

Henk



,

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for your time, Henk! Much appreciated.

I'll try your suggestion of recording off-axis, maybe try a different
polar pattern and let you know what I find.

I doubt it's an AC issue.

Harry


On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:47:57 GMT, "H. Schaap" <h.schaap01@chello.nl>
wrote:

>
>"Harry Houdini" <harry@houdini.com> schreef in bericht
>news:9tu821h648tirnjhf75eno0pdge8hd7str@4ax.com...
>> Hey,
>>
>> Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. As you can see, the
>> problem is not analog, which would not have that kind of radical
>> square wave curve.
>>
>> see below for review of what I've tried.
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> Here's my problem: when I record vocals, I always get these annoying
>> artifacts - clicks and pops. AAARGH! They seem to occur especially
>> around "f" and "v" sounds. Example, if I record someone - anyone -
>> saying 'Phillips Phonographic Records', clicks will be introduced at
>> any of the 'ph' sounds.
>
>If it's related to the f and v-s of the vocalist, just let him sing slighty
>aside the mic, not IN the mic. If it still happens maybe you are
>having a 3-6kHz boost somewhere in your chain(EQ ?)
>
>If it happens at random maybe a digital issue or something
>in your mains power, refrigerator or whatever.
>
>Henk
>
>
>
>,
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>What do the clicks and pops look like when you zoom in on the waveform
>display in the DAW? (I assume you are using a computer)

see attachment.

Note that I've tried every clocking, buffer, PCI latency setup that I
could.



>If they are impossible waveforms, like single samples being full scale for
>no reason, or bits missing/repeated from waveforms, then it's a computer
>problem. Analog clicks always have a little ripple in the waveform
>before and after the click. If the waveforms are clipped then you are
>overloading your a/d converters. There can be a load of energy in those f
>and v sounds.
>
>I'd set it recording, then try and *make* it click by making noises into
>the mic and fiddling with the settings. Once you find out what's causing
>it by doing it intentionally, then you can fix it.
>
>Also, they could be mouth noises. There is a post called 'Saliva slapping
>vocals' here that may be of interest.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Buffer settings, PCI Latency settings, various digital clock setups
and configs, still happens


On 10 Feb 2005 07:03:37 -0800, "dale" <dallen@frognet.net> wrote:

>
>Harry Houdini wrote:
>> Here's my problem: whenver I record vocals to a digital medium, I
>> always get these annoying artifacts - clicks and pops. AAARGH! They
>> seem to occur especially around "f" and "v" sounds.
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> TIA
>
>what are you recording to? computer..program..?
>besides the clipping if overdriving levels...
>the buffer size can create said artifacts.
>
>dale

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I tried that too. Seems to happen more often when women are at the
mic, which leads me to believe the problem is frequency-related.

On that assumption, I fed swept sines from 1khz to 5Khz and cannot
reporduce the problem.


>A different vocalist?
>--scott

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

For clocking I have tried:

using a dedicated master clock (MOTU)
letting the focusrite 430 premap Converters determine clock
letting my MOTU HD192 set the clock
letting the PCI card determine clock

no change.


On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:37:48 +0100, Chel van Gennip
<chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:10:10 +0100, Harry Houdini wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I should have mentioned that this happens no matter who I put in front
>> of the mic.
>>
>> Do you have any other suggestions?
>
>What master clock are you using, internal or external?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Harry Houdini wrote:
> I tried that too. Seems to happen more often when women are at the
> mic, which leads me to believe the problem is frequency-related.
>
> On that assumption, I fed swept sines from 1khz to 5Khz and cannot
> reporduce the problem.

Try 100 Hz. IME it makes tics and pops more apparent then higher
frequencies.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Have you optimized your pc for audio? Some simple windows processes
can interfere. Check this link to make sure everything is optimized
for audio.

http/www.streamworksaudio.com/contents.php?id=38

Randall



On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 10:07:57 -0400, Harry Houdini <harry@houdini.com>
wrote:

>For clocking I have tried:
>
>using a dedicated master clock (MOTU)
>letting the focusrite 430 premap Converters determine clock
>letting my MOTU HD192 set the clock
>letting the PCI card determine clock
>
>no change.
>
>
>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:37:48 +0100, Chel van Gennip
><chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:10:10 +0100, Harry Houdini wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I should have mentioned that this happens no matter who I put in front
>>> of the mic.
>>>
>>> Do you have any other suggestions?
>>
>>What master clock are you using, internal or external?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 10:02:23 -0400, Harry Houdini wrote:

>
>>What do the clicks and pops look like when you zoom in on the waveform
>>display in the DAW? (I assume you are using a computer)
>
> see attachment.
>
> Note that I've tried every clocking, buffer, PCI latency setup that I
> could.

This is not a great place to post binary attachments.
Email it to philicorda (at) ntlworld (dot) com


>
>
>
>>If they are impossible waveforms, like single samples being full scale for
>>no reason, or bits missing/repeated from waveforms, then it's a computer
>>problem. Analog clicks always have a little ripple in the waveform
>>before and after the click. If the waveforms are clipped then you are
>>overloading your a/d converters. There can be a load of energy in those f
>>and v sounds.
>>
>>I'd set it recording, then try and *make* it click by making noises into
>>the mic and fiddling with the settings. Once you find out what's causing
>>it by doing it intentionally, then you can fix it.
>>
>>Also, they could be mouth noises. There is a post called 'Saliva slapping
>>vocals' here that may be of interest.