In a quandary about AMD versus Intel

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Guide community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
I hate to sound like i am "marketing" but we have a 17" notebook with 4 speakers PLUS subwoofer built in. Is that completely ridiculous or what?

What about the 4 gigs with 2 for RAM drive idea until they get those drives out? I mean this is a reality right now with a 2Gb notebook memory chip and a bios upgrade.
 

SuperFly03

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2004
35
0
18,580
I hate to sound like i am "marketing" but we have a 17" notebook with 4 speakers PLUS subwoofer built in. Is that completely ridiculous or what?

What about the 4 gigs with 2 for RAM drive idea until they get those drives out? I mean this is a reality right now with a 2Gb notebook memory chip and a bios upgrade.

I've heard of those kind of notebook sound system, and don't get me wrong they soudn really nice, but there is something about being able to say hey I have THX speakers in my laptop wth do you have? LOL. Its an image thing, and I have heard nothing but great reviews of the 4.1 systems in laptops. There was a review posted just today on THG Mobility Guru about an Alienware that had, you guessed it, 4 speakers and a sub and they loved it. Its amazing how much attention laptops are getting these days, I really enjoy it.

As for the 2Gb RAM temp solution, I think the problem lies in teh fact that RAM is volitile. Volitile in the sense it loses data when it loses power (just in case you didn't know ). So yes it would work but the instant that your battery ran out, or that you were hit by a power surge or outage you would be hosed. Thats the entire reason I stay away from RAM disk drives.

I experimented with them back in the day (3 years ago heh) when I first got 2GB of ram. This was also back when Medal Of Honor was the most demanding game around, and I found the risk of data loss and rembering to back up and reload the data and the configuration options was honestly a pain in the ass. So yes in theory it would work well, but its a high risk manuver if you put anything important on that RAM disk drive.

I am a vertible fountain of useless knowledge hehe, all in good spirits.
 

Codeblue009

Distinguished
Feb 26, 2006
6
0
18,510
You have raised my interests some more with this discussion. I will be using the laptop for Photoshop, Acrobat 7.0 Professional, Access, Excel, RPG and maybe some Medal of Honor. Call of Duty probably won't play as well on this laptop then on my AMD 64 X2 4400+. I am not concerned with battery life. I will have my laptop mostly plugged in, unless I am on one of my flights to Russia or the Ukraine. Then I can always read my book or listen to my IPOD to keep me company. :D

Perfomance wise I am not sure that any sites list the Turion ahead of the Yonah. I am mostly concerned with performance and value for the laptop. I will only go Intell if the value and the performance is there. Again I am building my Dream Machine now and it has an ASUS A8N-SLI NForce4 deluxe board, Athlon 64 X2 4400, Zalman CNPS 7000B ALCU Heatsink, 2 GB of Corsair TwinX2048-3200C2PT, EVGA GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB, 2 WD Caviar SE 16 320 GB SATA 3G & a Cooler Master RP RS-550-ACLY Power Supply. I already have a sexy plexy 716-A Burner and Audigy Sound card. So I am an AMD Fan but Yonah sounds really good to me now, especially since I need a laptop right now. So now what do you guys and girls think?
 

YoshiDark

Distinguished
Dec 16, 2005
5
0
18,510
From a preformance/price standpoint, YES Yonah beats the Turion because it is dual core. However, you won't need dual core unless you plan on playing two CPU intensive games at once, like as stated earlier dual-logging Lineage 2.

You see, games can't take advantage of dual-core because of how they're programmed. You are right, your 4400+ will be able to play Call of Duty better, but that's because of a beefier video card and more RAM.
 

SuperFly03

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2004
35
0
18,580
If you need a laptop right now, I still say Yonah (again personal preference). I think dual cores like photoshop (correct me if im in error). As for your dream rig (just to throw in my 2 cents), why not go for the X2 4200+ or 4600+ and overclock. The manchester core has significantly less transistors due to the smaller cache enabling it to OC more with less heat. Just a thought :). however if your not an OC man then shoot as high as you can affor, as always lol

Edit: Don't get me started on the new iPod, I don't like it. Now if you have a 4G or earlier iPod then those are the bomb. It is really just how thing and fragile the 5G seems to be. I acctually went Creative Zen Microphoto for my iPod replacement, but thats a whole nother discussion.
 

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
But as we saw in our original article, at 2.0GHz, the Core Duo T2500 just isn't able to offer performance comparable to the Athlon 64 X2 at the same speed. It is worth noting that L2 cache size doesn't really make a difference here to the X2 at all, just clock speed. Thanks to the Athlon 64's on-die memory controller, the architecture is inherently less sensitive to cache size than more conventional designs that rely on an external memory controller.

As far as Yonah beating the Turion:
Ok, I am going to take a different approach here.

Yonah, is awesome! It is the BOMB, it is all powerful and dual core and has 3 rows of teeth like a great white and claws like daggers (probably made of Vibranium). Little pieces Turion's are just sticking half digested out of its poop in the yard.

Since I just succomed to the freaking shock and awe of the Yonah I have a question, "How long is this BEAST going to last you?"

Riddle me this, "How fast is this going to be on Vista, or 64 bit Photoshop, or Office or any of the other things you are going to want to use while this system is still alive and kicking in a year and a half? When all the "benchmarks" say, "We have left the cave! Hail the new era of 64 bit computing! This pie chart shows 64 bit processors slaughterhouse everything you bought 20 minutes ago!" Then in really fine subliminal text print it says, "I can't believe you are still using a 32 bit machine... you suck"
 

YoshiDark

Distinguished
Dec 16, 2005
5
0
18,510
You're comparing apples to oranges. Desktop CPUs to laptop CPUs?

Actually, now that you mention it I have heard about Photoshop being multi-threaded.
 

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
Apples to oranges? a 3800+ X2 is comperable to what they are saying the Turion X2 will be. The point is the cache and how it isn't an issue which is what were were talking about on page 1.
 

Codeblue009

Distinguished
Feb 26, 2006
6
0
18,510
Superfly I was not informed on the 4200 & 4600 as a suitable Proc for my rig, so I bought the X2 4400 instead. I saw that it had more L2 cache of 1 Mg as opposed to I believe 512 kb of cache for the two other proc's. I wish I had done more research into the Opteron Procs because it seems to me that most everyone here uses that as the processor of choice. :)

I have a shuffle now and I am buying the 4 Gig Nano. I was almost leaning to the 30 Gig IPOD but I believe you saved me from my folly. I was not sure of this because the Nano uses I believe flash memory and was not sure if the 30 Gig had a better memory storage device. Thanks for the input. :)

So I think then what the consensus here is that a dual core laptop for me might be overkill, except while I am using Photoshop. I think the suggestion is to go for a high end single core AMD Turion as opposed to wait for the Turion X2 to come out. There was only one person who advocated for the Yonah Proc and that was you Superfly. I appreciate your input and reasoning, especially since we are both living in Texas. :D

Well the Turion X2 is still about 4-6 weeks away and I am thinking that the push for dual core is here. Applications such as Photoshop do utilize two processors and video editing that I do on some occasion also can use this kind of performance. I forgot I have to do some for presentations at times at work. So if I am patient enough I will wait to see if the Turion X2 will out perform Yonah. I especially like that ATI came with a new video card for the laptop, but HP doesn't carry it yet in their configuration. I might look you up Killernotebook and see if you have what I am looking for. Thanks again to everyone for helping and responding to this thread. :D
 

SuperFly03

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2004
35
0
18,580
Thats why we have boards, to learn form each other. I know just spending an hour a day in the forums I almost learn more than I do in some of my IS classes (lets not go there LOL).
 

Mech

Distinguished
Feb 25, 2006
55
0
18,580
MAN that stress test was AMAZING!
18 days of max-load testing? My laptop would've...well, MELTED, had it gone through that kinda ordeal lol.
Sorta humorous to see the Intel chip need replacement parts and rebooted 4 times, while the AMD just cruised along.
 

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
Yea, I think that test pretty much says... oh, IT ALL!

IN the Feb 21st edition of PC Magazine Dvorak wrote and article about Intel and their marketing and buzz words they use.

I guess Intel dropped, "Intel Inside" and instead are now using "Leap Ahead." It was pretty funny that he said,
Leap Ahead... of what? Of AMD?
Maybe they should change the slogan to "Pretend to Leap Ahead".
Amen to that.

 

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
Centrino vs. Turion

Conclusions
From a performance perspective, it's clear that the Turion 64 is the winner. By my count, the Pentium M was faster in only five of the tests, and one of those (the hardware OpenGL test in Cinebench) was probably due to graphics drivers. The rest were either a toss-up or a win for the Turion 64. The other thing that struck me about the results was that even in the tests the Pentium M did win, its margin of victory was fairly small. A number of the Turion 64 wins, however, were by an impressively large margin.
 

killernotebooks

Distinguished
Feb 3, 2006
1,283
0
19,230
I have used Intel single and dual core as well as Turion processors and X2 desktops. There is absolutely NO WAY you can compare a 2.26 Pentium M to a 2.2 GHz Turion. It isn’t even remotely close, but hey, use them both and you be the judge... let's move on to this core duo.

Talk about a marketing phenomena... core due it is just that… marketing. I tried a 1.66 core duo and it doesn’t cut the muster. I have no idea how much money Intel is unloading on marketing, but if I were them I would be freaking praying that Conroe and Merom live up to all the initial claims and that AMD doesn't make any new advances by then to throw more dirt in the hole Intel is enjoying at this point.

Why would the notebook arena be any different then the desktop arena? The X2 dual core desktop humiliates the Intel class dual cores. Intel makes all sorts of wild claims about AMD's technology not stacking up to their own, and downplaying the features AMD processors support, but when Intel's R&D finally catches up they start implementing the things AMD is doing that were previously stated as junk. Quote:
NGMA chips can process more instructions per clock cycle than their predecessors, take advantage of larger amounts of cache memory, and route instructions more intelligently through the central processing unit (CPU). This will allow Intel to retake the performance lead currently held by the AMD64 architecture without resorting to techonology similar to AMD's integrated memory controller or point-to-point interconnects, said Mooly Eden, general manager of Intel's mobile platforms group.
So Intel's own general manager of mobile platforms admits that AMD has the performance lead... interesting. Reading that statement it appears as if the onboard memory controller that Intel has previously said makes "insignifcant performance gains" in reality is putting Intel to the tap. Quote:
Intel executives, such as Chief Technology Officer Justin Rattner, have talked about pursuing integrated memory controllers for chips toward the end of the decade, but the company has not shared any specific plans.
Intel's talking about a lot of things that are "going to be, but sounds like right now they are tapping out. What's going to happen when AMD moves to DDR2?

Why if Intel is so great didn't we have 64 bit computing 3 years ago? AMD had it but Intel couldn't figure it out... so they downplayed it. They stagnated the market because no one wanted to move forward without (at the time) the dominant market share player. Why did a company with so much market share and so much money for R&D get taken downtown in the desktop market ... then the server market ... Quote:
The Opteron chip has lifted AMD's share of the x86 server processor market from virtually zero a few years ago to 14.3 percent in the fourth quarter of 2005, according to IDC.
then the notebook market? If Intel is so great why are they hemorraging market share?

Quote:
Strike three for Intel
By Michael Kanellos and Tom Krazit
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Published: March 3, 2006, 1:20 PM PST

Intel warned on Friday that its revenue for the first quarter would come in at between $8.7 billion and $9.1 billion, roughly $500 million lower than estimates the company issued in January. The Santa Clara, Calif.-based chipmaker cited a weak market and a "slight" market share loss.

AMD's surge can be seen most strongly in the U.S. retail market, which accounts for about 9 percent of global PC shipments. In the first seven weeks of 2006, AMD's share in desktops in that area climbed to 81.5 percent, while Intel's has slid to 18.5 percent, Baker said. That's almost a complete reversal of their typical relative positions.


Intel is getting to be like Microsoft... big claims then delays and striped down versions of what they initially presented. The really annoying thing about Intel is instead of doing it right they rush to market and then change their stuff a million times, change the name of everything 5 million times and hype their stuff and throw marketing and advertising dollars out 10 million times more than AMD.

How long has AMD made socket 939 last? How long have they made DDR memory last? When they design something it is desighned right so they don't burn their customer base Quote:
AMD will introduce support for DDR2 (double data rate 2) memory along with a new socket technology called AM2 in the second half of the year. That will allow system builders to drop quad-core processors into the same chipsets for upcoming dual-core chips, he said.


Why don't you speculate on how much more advanced the computer industry would be right now had Intel not been a bloated pig stonewalling the industry?

Now everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I am not going to try to change your mind. I am going to ask one question... Of everything you said above... how fast will the core-duo Intel be when everyone is using 64 bit O.S. & programs? and I will leave you with this quote,
Quote:
As might be expected, Advanced Micro Devices doesn't think much of Intel's performance claims for its upcoming Conroe and Merom products.

"It's driven by the fact that they can't talk about their current products, because everybody knows their current products aren't very good,"
 

alexfair

Distinguished
May 24, 2004
3
0
18,510
I think there are a few things that need to be cleared up. The Yonah CPU sounds great, it maybe faster and to the market first. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have been hearing about this CPU for atleast 3-5 months. And I am just starting to see them being offered, with the expection of Apple. I mean like one person stated that Dell is the largest selling the US, and I know people I work with who have ordered new laptops with the new CoreDuo Yonah and they aren't expected to ship until 1st or 2nd week of may. Now Intel really doesn't have much of lead and should be scared of AMD's Turion x2 for may reasons, AMD has may advantages over intel, but when you look at the two processors on paper you would want think Intel has more power in its cpu. Not really true, the L2 cache is different lower on the AMD at 512KB and Intel at 1MB per core. The simple reason for this is, AMD has the memory controller on board, making it easier and quicker for AMD to trasmit data between the cpu and RAM. Intel on the other hand depends on cache to support data flow since their memory controller is slower due to the extra stops the data has to make.

Now if AMD delievers their Turion X2 on the date they say and have systems ready for purchase, Intel will have trouble getting their Yonah the distance they want in the market. AMD has delievered some rock soild mobile technology. If I had to place my money on anything it would be AMD leading an ever growing mobile segment of gaming enthusiast. I can see mobile computers soon matching the gaming desktop setups.