palladin9479
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There is such a thing called moderation.
I DID have one of those large super expensive "gaming laptops" and you know what, F*CK that. Remember you have to carry that thing everywhere, on the metro, running through an airport, on bus's / ect. It also takes up tons of space in your backpack, space that could be used for other things. The power bricks are ginormous and the whole thing is highly un-mobile. Portable yes, mobile no.
Go for something right around the 1K USD mark. You can get a decent mobile dGPU, 8GB memory and a quad core CPU, more then enough to play all the video games you want. It might not play them at 8xAA with all the shinys turned on, but that's what we use our home box's for anyway. Something between 15 and 17 inch screen size, though I'd caution going higher then 15 as it becomes very annoying to move around with.
This is from someone who is required to take business trips for work and live out of a hotel room for a few weeks at a time. Large super laptops are a PITA to carry with you, switching to a smaller 15inch HP was pretty shocking.
I DID have one of those large super expensive "gaming laptops" and you know what, F*CK that. Remember you have to carry that thing everywhere, on the metro, running through an airport, on bus's / ect. It also takes up tons of space in your backpack, space that could be used for other things. The power bricks are ginormous and the whole thing is highly un-mobile. Portable yes, mobile no.
Go for something right around the 1K USD mark. You can get a decent mobile dGPU, 8GB memory and a quad core CPU, more then enough to play all the video games you want. It might not play them at 8xAA with all the shinys turned on, but that's what we use our home box's for anyway. Something between 15 and 17 inch screen size, though I'd caution going higher then 15 as it becomes very annoying to move around with.
This is from someone who is required to take business trips for work and live out of a hotel room for a few weeks at a time. Large super laptops are a PITA to carry with you, switching to a smaller 15inch HP was pretty shocking.
killerclick
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Obviously, depends on where you want to use it. When mobility isn't an issue, gaming laptops are a poor substitute to a desktop system. And despite all the talk, most people don't game "on-the-go". Imagine playing Skyrim at the airport, surrounded by screaming babies and rapey TSA agents. Besides, laptop portability is overstated. In most situations you'll have to be near a wall outlet, because battery life sucks.
Why are desktops superior?
1. The screen. Would you have watched say Avatar on a 21" TV? Big screens are simply better for immersion and the overall experience. That's why people like big screen TVs.
2. The speakers. Headphones can't really subsitute for high quality surround speakers. That, and it's clunky headgear you have to wear.
3. Upgradeability. Just stick in a new video card or a faster CPU and you could dramaticaly increase performance. Or if you have a perfect machine but an awesome new display comes out, no problem, just plug it in. My computer still has unbroken continuity from the first one I got in 1991, which makes it especially cool.
4. Customizability (yup, that's a word). You can build/upgrade with exactly the components you want, and get the best deal on every part. However, when you buy a new laptop, you get whatever components the OEM decided to put in it. Great specs, great price but a crappy keyboard? That's something you don't have to deal with a custom desktop machine.
5. Price. You get better performance for the same price, plus upgrades are cheaper than buying a new computer every time.
6. Raw power. I don't exactly keep up with developments in gaming laptops, but I'm guessing you can't buy one with three-way SLI. Even if you can, you always have more potential in a desktop.
Of course, if you travel a lot, or don't have a home, a gaming laptop will have to do.
Why are desktops superior?
1. The screen. Would you have watched say Avatar on a 21" TV? Big screens are simply better for immersion and the overall experience. That's why people like big screen TVs.
2. The speakers. Headphones can't really subsitute for high quality surround speakers. That, and it's clunky headgear you have to wear.
3. Upgradeability. Just stick in a new video card or a faster CPU and you could dramaticaly increase performance. Or if you have a perfect machine but an awesome new display comes out, no problem, just plug it in. My computer still has unbroken continuity from the first one I got in 1991, which makes it especially cool.
4. Customizability (yup, that's a word). You can build/upgrade with exactly the components you want, and get the best deal on every part. However, when you buy a new laptop, you get whatever components the OEM decided to put in it. Great specs, great price but a crappy keyboard? That's something you don't have to deal with a custom desktop machine.
5. Price. You get better performance for the same price, plus upgrades are cheaper than buying a new computer every time.
6. Raw power. I don't exactly keep up with developments in gaming laptops, but I'm guessing you can't buy one with three-way SLI. Even if you can, you always have more potential in a desktop.
Of course, if you travel a lot, or don't have a home, a gaming laptop will have to do.
sherlockwing
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- Aug 7, 2012
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Gaming laptop isn't a "gimmick", it is a "niche" product for people want to game when they travel. They are not for hardcore gamers of any kind but especially not for FPS/RPG gamers who demand highest possible resolution/frame rate/video quality.
However for casual gamers who like to entertain themselves with games when they are away from home( don't even have to be business trips, vacations count in this category too) or people who don't want to be tied down by cumbersome 40 lb desktops(University students comes to mind).
I lived 4 years in apartments during college, none of my roomates owns a desktop and I , all gaming laptops and we Lan Starcraft/Starcraft2 all the time, RTS games like that don't demand the top of the line graphic cards you are not one step behind someone just bcause you are on a 800X600 14" than 24" IPS. If Gaming Laptop is really a gimmick that is doomed to fail Navida/ATI won't work their behind off building these mobile GPU chips, and websites like XoticPC.com would have shut down long time ago.
p.s not a gaming laptop fanboy or anything, in fact I am building a Desktop now that I finally graduated and got a full time office job(which offered me a company laptop). However Gaming laptop is not a gimmick, it is a niche product aimed at a niche market just like Ferrari is a niche product aimed at a niche market yet you don't see "Is Ferrari a gimmick" post in forums anywhere.
Market has spoken.
Most people buying a computer now (and for the past few years) purchase laptops more so than desktops, and they want or expect their laptop to be able to play computer games to some degree or play movie on a bright screen.
And I mean the regular average person, not people posting to tomshardware.
The people who are answering here are a self-selecting group who are still destkop homebuilders. But if you take a real survey of overall users, or just among friends who are not techies, they always go to buy a laptop and want to play some games on it.
So "Niche" really the computer desktop owners, not laptop owners.
Along the same lines, the majority of video gaming revenue has shifted to consoles, so that is the torchbearer of video games now. Just try to find the PC game aisle at bestbuy...
If you are a computer gaming "snob" who only considers gaming as only on desktops on your SLI/Crossfire OC-ed rig at ultra settings, then you will soon find yourself very alone in niche market outnumbered by "laptop" gamers.
So along those lines no, gaming laptop is not an overstatement or a niche market, i'd say it's the reverse desktop gaming is the "niche" market.
It is more so that you cannot just completely homebuild your own "gaming laptop" as easily as a desktop; so there are slimer margins there; whereas every laptop manufacturer should be trying to push their gaming offerings.
Most people buying a computer now (and for the past few years) purchase laptops more so than desktops, and they want or expect their laptop to be able to play computer games to some degree or play movie on a bright screen.
And I mean the regular average person, not people posting to tomshardware.
The people who are answering here are a self-selecting group who are still destkop homebuilders. But if you take a real survey of overall users, or just among friends who are not techies, they always go to buy a laptop and want to play some games on it.
So "Niche" really the computer desktop owners, not laptop owners.
Along the same lines, the majority of video gaming revenue has shifted to consoles, so that is the torchbearer of video games now. Just try to find the PC game aisle at bestbuy...
If you are a computer gaming "snob" who only considers gaming as only on desktops on your SLI/Crossfire OC-ed rig at ultra settings, then you will soon find yourself very alone in niche market outnumbered by "laptop" gamers.
So along those lines no, gaming laptop is not an overstatement or a niche market, i'd say it's the reverse desktop gaming is the "niche" market.
It is more so that you cannot just completely homebuild your own "gaming laptop" as easily as a desktop; so there are slimer margins there; whereas every laptop manufacturer should be trying to push their gaming offerings.
To all of those who speak of laptops not being able to perform. My laptop is very nice, I did pay 2000USD for the thing but it has been well worth it.
I play Skyrim on ultra high setting 4xaa and I have never dipped below 54fps. I can go on as I play a great number of different games but Skyrim is a good enough example.
At first I was concerned as the temps can get up there while gaming, then I did some research and found that the components can safely reach temperatures that used to be reserved for military equipment, laptops are no longer limited by the 70*c cpu cuttoff!
I forgot to mention that my 17.3" monitor has a resolution of 1920x1080 and that is the res I game at. My laptop has been to a few LAN parties and often benchmarks higher than many of the desktops I see. I know that by spending 2000USD on a home-built desktop I could've gotten liquid cooling and some niceer gpus in crossfire/sli an a nice cpu to oc with that liquid cooling. I needed portability though as I am a student and I enjoy traveling.
To sum it up, laptops can be very good for gaming but they'll cost you a bit more as well.
I play Skyrim on ultra high setting 4xaa and I have never dipped below 54fps. I can go on as I play a great number of different games but Skyrim is a good enough example.
At first I was concerned as the temps can get up there while gaming, then I did some research and found that the components can safely reach temperatures that used to be reserved for military equipment, laptops are no longer limited by the 70*c cpu cuttoff!
I forgot to mention that my 17.3" monitor has a resolution of 1920x1080 and that is the res I game at. My laptop has been to a few LAN parties and often benchmarks higher than many of the desktops I see. I know that by spending 2000USD on a home-built desktop I could've gotten liquid cooling and some niceer gpus in crossfire/sli an a nice cpu to oc with that liquid cooling. I needed portability though as I am a student and I enjoy traveling.
To sum it up, laptops can be very good for gaming but they'll cost you a bit more as well.
dudewitbow
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- Apr 11, 2012
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even desktops have a hard time with the 2 said games. the way they were coded, the anti aliasing effects on high resolutions make all cards bite the dust.
- Apr 1, 2011
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That's just troll behaviour.
Since desktop gaming performance will be 0 fps once you are out of your house, we are not talking about how gaming laptop compare with desktop (because obviously the laptop will win), but we are talking whether they can actually play games and yes they can.
Stay on topic!!
sherlockwing
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- Aug 7, 2012
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In term of graphic extensive games such as FPS/RPG gaming laptop don't offer you the best chance to win as a gamer, however there are games other than FPS/RPG, RTS for example requires a lot less in both FPS & resolution and player can do just as well in a similar priced "gaming laptop" as a desktop and such game can be enjoyed without 1080P and 90+ FPS.
My laptop runs Skyrim at 60fps with occasional dips to as low as 54fps. I run it at 1920x1080 ultra high, maxed view distances(all of them), 16xaf and 4xaa. I only paid 2000USD and I coulda gotten away with 1800USD but I had to have that extra SSD and the 12GB RAM as, it is my hypothesis, using 4 RAM sticks means that each stick will have less electron traffic than one would see using 2 sticks which will reduce friction and thereby reduce heat.
So, it looks like you shoulda looked into the cost and benchmarks of these laptops before you made such an uneducated response.
I can post some ss if you request, lemme see if I can now. Just to rub your nose in the fact that I just proved your statement false and that laptops are out there that can exceed your requirements at less than 1/2 the price you quoted.
here is a pic, I am uploading a vid clip but fraps vids at 1080p are prtty big. With fraps running I still see 60 but the dips can go as low as 45fps all maxed. The vid is a bit short but it is small and that is why I uploaded it.
The vid is uploading to the same file as the photos but wont be available for awhile as it takes forever.
http
/s1048.photobucket.com/albums/s380/Jnman1975/sherlockwing
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- Aug 7, 2012
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He might answer it eventually but for that price it is probably a Sager NP 9150/9170 with a Radeon HD 7970M, GTX 680M models are 2k minimum when I reserached about gaming laptop.
I considered getting such a laptop before my company assigned me a laptop for work so I decided to go Desktop for the same budget(2k):
Processor Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz $229.99
Motherboard ASRock Z77 Extreme 4 $134.99
Memory G.Skill Ares F3-1600C8D-8GAB(2X4) 8G $54.99
Graphics EVGA GeForce GTX 670 FTW $407.99
Optical Drive LG Black SATA 24X DVD Burner $14.39
Power supply Seasonic X650Gold $118.99
Storage Samsung 830 256G $219.95
Enclosure NZXT Phantom 410 $99.99
CPUFan COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO $34.99
Monitor ASUS VG276H 27” 120Hz 599.99
Total: $1,916
You can get a lot more raw power with a desktop, but mobility and -25lbs don't have a price. If I haven't gotten a new laptop to use at work I would definately gotten a laptop instead.
To understand the original argument which has not, you should study the topics of Disruptive Technologies:
http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation
The wikipedia article is a bit generic, but there is a sub-category of disruptive innovations where even if the preceding technology is superior; people will compromise and take the inferior technology if it gives enough of a new benefit or is just plain cheaper.
You can read the article to see list of other examples but:
Digital Cameras/video vs film:
When Digital came out, it was easy that digital was inferior to film cameras.
Where are we now on film cameras
"Real Camera" vs Phone cameras
Clearly phone cameras produce crap pictures and video compared to even a real point and shoot family camera, especially the first 5-10years of it.
But where are we now on point-and-shoot cameras versus phone cameras.
Music:
Vinyl vs CDs, then MP3s versus CDs; and now streaming/youtube versus downloads
all of these technologies of these are "worse" than the preceding tecnology. Where are we now on this.
CRT vs LCD:
CRTs are superior to LCDs, but where are they now.
Desktops vs laptop is going the same way. The purists will still claim the technical superiority of the prior technology, however the market has spoken and sales of laptops exceed desktops by far even if they are "inferior".
As shown in this thread, you will get the snooty people who will say "real" photography should use film, or vinyl is always better. Take from that what you will.
Game designers cannot just ignore this huge section of customer base; and as a result, all games can be played on so-called "gaming laptops"
So Gaming Laptop is NOT a gimmick, it's what many game makers will have to cater to when making their product (although perhaps not at ultra or max settings).
http
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovationThe wikipedia article is a bit generic, but there is a sub-category of disruptive innovations where even if the preceding technology is superior; people will compromise and take the inferior technology if it gives enough of a new benefit or is just plain cheaper.
You can read the article to see list of other examples but:
Digital Cameras/video vs film:
When Digital came out, it was easy that digital was inferior to film cameras.
Where are we now on film cameras
"Real Camera" vs Phone cameras
Clearly phone cameras produce crap pictures and video compared to even a real point and shoot family camera, especially the first 5-10years of it.
But where are we now on point-and-shoot cameras versus phone cameras.
Music:
Vinyl vs CDs, then MP3s versus CDs; and now streaming/youtube versus downloads
all of these technologies of these are "worse" than the preceding tecnology. Where are we now on this.
CRT vs LCD:
CRTs are superior to LCDs, but where are they now.
Desktops vs laptop is going the same way. The purists will still claim the technical superiority of the prior technology, however the market has spoken and sales of laptops exceed desktops by far even if they are "inferior".
As shown in this thread, you will get the snooty people who will say "real" photography should use film, or vinyl is always better. Take from that what you will.
Game designers cannot just ignore this huge section of customer base; and as a result, all games can be played on so-called "gaming laptops"
So Gaming Laptop is NOT a gimmick, it's what many game makers will have to cater to when making their product (although perhaps not at ultra or max settings).
- Apr 1, 2011
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7970m, so the performance will be between desktop 7850 and 7870 (the card itself is an underclock 7870 (850 vs 1000 MHz core), so no surprise there on Skyrim performance:
http/www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7870-review-benchmark,3148-15.html
Even battlefield should run fine on high preset.
http
/www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7870-review-benchmark,3148-15.htmlEven battlefield should run fine on high preset.
palladin9479
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