Pole Color ?

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An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
+ and - ?
Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?

 

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"mathedman" wrote ...
> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
> + and - ?

Red is traditionally "+" and black is "-"

> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?

Black/-/negative/ground is traditionally connected to chassis.

HOWEVER, note that tradition does not apply everywhere.
In *some* cases it is NOT safe to assume that -/negative
connects to the common/chassis.

If you want better help, ask more specific questions about
your actual situation. Generic questions and answers are
frequently misleading or even dangerous.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

mathedman wrote:

> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
> + and - ?

Yes

> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?

The speaker "-" connection is normally actually connected back to the
*power supply* common - not the chassis.


Graham

 

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In <4196283c.638252@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, on 11/13/04
at 03:32 PM, mathedman@hotmail.CUT.com (mathedman) said:


> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
>red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
> + and - ?

Yes. Usually if a battery's "+" terminal is conneted to the red or "+"
terminal of a speaker, the speaker cone will jump away from the frame.

> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?

The black or "-" terminal on the receiver is often connected to the
chassis (but not always). On most home equipment, all the black
terminals are internally connected to a common point, however, on some
receivers they are not and the unit will get into trouble if you
connect the black terminals to a common point.

Bottom line: Don't connect a receiver's black terminals together or to
the chassis unless you have a good reason to do so *AND* you have
checked to make sure this is OK for the model at hand.

---

A point to keep in mind is that all speakers in the same room should be
connected the same way. Usually, this is speaker "+" to receiver "+".
If one speaker is connected backwards with respect to the others ("out
of phase"), there will be some sound cancellation -- but no physical
damage.

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wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
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"mathedman" <mathedman@hotmail.CUT.com> wrote in message
news:4196283c.638252@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>
> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
> + and - ?
> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?

Some specs state that the phase of the amplifier is noninverting.
Others don't bother.
If you know whether your amplifier inverts phase, as well as your signal
source -- preamp & CD player, then you can arrange to maintain absolute
phase all the way through the reproduction chain.
However, this is made somewhat meaningless by the fact that many speakers
have crossovers that invert the phase of some of the drivers. There is
ongoing debate as to whether anyone can reliably detect absolute phase. I'd
rather do it right if possible, but it is one of the most subtle, perhaps
indetectable effects.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:26:24 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>"mathedman" wrote ...
>> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
>> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
>> + and - ?
>
>Red is traditionally "+" and black is "-"
>
>> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?
>
>Black/-/negative/ground is traditionally connected to chassis.


Ahh- keep 'em confuses! In electrical wiring -- home wiring
etc.--- black is ALWAYS the power and NEVER the "common" (= ground)

>
>HOWEVER, note that tradition does not apply everywhere.
>In *some* cases it is NOT safe to assume that -/negative
>connects to the common/chassis.
>
>If you want better help, ask more specific questions about
>your actual situation. Generic questions and answers are
>frequently misleading or even dangerous.
>
>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:00:53 GMT, mathedman@hotmail.CUT.com
(mathedman) wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:26:24 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
><rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
>>"mathedman" wrote ...
>>> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
>>> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
>>> + and - ?
>>
>>Red is traditionally "+" and black is "-"
>>
>>> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?
>>
>>Black/-/negative/ground is traditionally connected to chassis.
>
> Ahh- keep 'em confuses! In electrical wiring -- home wiring
>etc.--- black is ALWAYS the power and NEVER the "common" (= ground)

WRONG! You MUST NOT post this dangerous drivel in an international
forum! In the UK for instance, we now have the Euro standard
brown=live, blue=neutral convention, but many houses predate this, and
the old convention was red live, black neutral.

In hi-fi terms, red is *always* 'hot', normally meaning that the
speaker cone moves forward if a positive voltage is present, while
black is the return. Live and earth are of course meaningless in terms
of a loudspeaker, and it's worth remembering that some amplifiers have
balanced outputs, where neither red nor black are actually at 'ground'
potential. Indeed, for almost all valve/tube amplifiers, the output
terminals are floating, and either side may safely be connected to a
copper spike driven into *real* Earth!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"mathedman" wrote ...
> Ahh- keep 'em confuses! In electrical wiring -- home wiring
> etc.

Keep in mind that this is an international group, and "mathedman"
appears to be talking only to people in the USA.

--- black is ALWAYS the power and NEVER

Even when limited to the USA, that statement is incomplete
and inaccurate. Black is *one possible* "hot" color, but
certainly not the only one in common use.

the "common" (= ground)

And "common" does NOT equal "ground" in power wiring
in USA or most anywhere else with modern mains standards.

"Common" (aka "neutral") is white while ground is green.
But again, only in terms of non-compulsory standards (like
the National Electrical Code) in the USA.

And then I wrote...
>>HOWEVER, note that tradition does not apply everywhere.
>>In *some* cases it is NOT safe to assume that -/negative
>>connects to the common/chassis.

Case in point...
Mains power wiring colors...

"Hot" = Black, red, etc. (USA) = brown (IEC)
"Neutral" = White (USA) = blue ((EC)
"Ground" = Green (USA) = Green/yellow stripe (IEC)

But the OP was asking about speakers, not about mains power
wiring. Alas, even there, the "standards" are not much more of
a dependable standard.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ft8fp09o3n977isarqp3531aj2oadb98do@4ax.com...
>
> In hi-fi terms, red is *always* 'hot', normally meaning that the
> speaker cone moves forward if a positive voltage is present, while
> black is the return.

JBL would beg to differ.

> Live and earth are of course meaningless in terms
> of a loudspeaker, and it's worth remembering that some amplifiers have
> balanced outputs, where neither red nor black are actually at 'ground'
> potential.

Exactly. As long as the two speakers are wired the same, then they are in
phase. Who cares what color they are.

>Indeed, for almost all valve/tube amplifiers, the output
> terminals are floating, and either side may safely be connected to a
> copper spike driven into *real* Earth!

And totally unnecessary for speaker leads.
Be careful of valve amps without an output transformer when trying that
though!

TonyP.

 

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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:22:12 +1100, "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au>
wrote:

>"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ft8fp09o3n977isarqp3531aj2oadb98do@4ax.com...
>>
>> In hi-fi terms, red is *always* 'hot', normally meaning that the
>> speaker cone moves forward if a positive voltage is present, while
>> black is the return.
>
>JBL would beg to differ.

Really? I didn't know that. How strange!

>> Live and earth are of course meaningless in terms
>> of a loudspeaker, and it's worth remembering that some amplifiers have
>> balanced outputs, where neither red nor black are actually at 'ground'
>> potential.
>
>Exactly. As long as the two speakers are wired the same, then they are in
>phase. Who cares what color they are.
>
>>Indeed, for almost all valve/tube amplifiers, the output
>> terminals are floating, and either side may safely be connected to a
>> copper spike driven into *real* Earth!
>
>And totally unnecessary for speaker leads.
>Be careful of valve amps without an output transformer when trying that
>though!

Could be very entertaining for a few seconds, though!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:qNadnbm3Ap9NYAvcRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> Some specs state that the phase of the amplifier is noninverting.
> Others don't bother.
> If you know whether your amplifier inverts phase, as well as your signal
> source -- preamp & CD player, then you can arrange to maintain absolute
> phase all the way through the reproduction chain.

But not through the Production chain. So what's the point?

> However, this is made somewhat meaningless by the fact that many speakers
> have crossovers that invert the phase of some of the drivers. There is
> ongoing debate as to whether anyone can reliably detect absolute phase.
I'd
> rather do it right if possible, but it is one of the most subtle, perhaps
> indetectable effects.

How do you determine the phase on the CD Vs that in the recording studio?
I haven't seen a CD where this is mentioned. Do you know of any?

TonyP.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Each industry has it's own "color code" (standards). In some cases
there are "shop" standards. In situations where there is no applicable
national or industry standard, we have adopted our own conventions.

I've worked in several industries and I always use the appropriate
conventions, but I chuckle to myself when someone says black or red is
always ...

Pipe measurements are no better. Some industries measure the inside
diameter, some the outside, and others seem to use a nominal size that
was established at the dawn of time. I say "nominal" because the "size"
doesn't agree with what I can measure.

Then there is what we call a "2x4" (pronounced "two by four") in the
US. It's a long piece of wood that one would expect to measure 2-inches
by 4-inches, but the 2x4 measurement is the size before the plank is
cut from the tree. There is also a generous allowance for "finishing".
I'm guessing that the idea is to have the customer pay for the wood
that the mill wastes during the sawing process. The result is a piece
of lumber that is considerably smaller than its name implies.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam: uce@ftc.gov
wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13> (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

mathedman wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:26:24 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
> <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
>
> >"mathedman" wrote ...
> >> An enclosed speaker has wiring posts marked onlty by color ----
> >> red and black. What is the convention for red and black =
> >> + and - ?
> >
> >Red is traditionally "+" and black is "-"
> >
> >> Is it the "-" pole on the receiver that is the chassis ?
> >
> >Black/-/negative/ground is traditionally connected to chassis.
>
> Ahh- keep 'em confuses! In electrical wiring -- home wiring
> etc.--- black is ALWAYS the power and NEVER the "common" (= ground)

Not in most of the world actually.

Prior to adopting the near universal worldwide norm of brown = live,
blue = neutral and green+yellow = ground, the UK used red = live, black
= neutral and green = ground. UK fixed house wiring ( the stuff in the
wall ) still uses this convention. I think it's quite common actually.


Graham

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news1ohp09bf5m3cm2e5gdgntogi0b2k9b3la@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:22:12 +1100, "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:ft8fp09o3n977isarqp3531aj2oadb98do@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> In hi-fi terms, red is *always* 'hot', normally meaning that the
>>> speaker cone moves forward if a positive voltage is present, while
>>> black is the return.
>>
>>JBL would beg to differ.
>
> Really? I didn't know that. How strange!
>
>>> Live and earth are of course meaningless in terms
>>> of a loudspeaker, and it's worth remembering that some amplifiers have
>>> balanced outputs, where neither red nor black are actually at 'ground'
>>> potential.
>>
>>Exactly. As long as the two speakers are wired the same, then they are in
>>phase. Who cares what color they are.
>>
>>>Indeed, for almost all valve/tube amplifiers, the output
>>> terminals are floating, and either side may safely be connected to a
>>> copper spike driven into *real* Earth!
>>
>>And totally unnecessary for speaker leads.
>>Be careful of valve amps without an output transformer when trying that
>>though!
>
> Could be very entertaining for a few seconds, though!
> --
>
> Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Yup JBL lists the black connector as producing a forward cone motion when
you apply a positive voltage.


Doug

 

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Barry Mann" <zzzz@zzzz.zzz> wrote in message
news:419a18f9$1$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com...
> Each industry has it's own "color code" (standards). In some cases
> there are "shop" standards. In situations where there is no applicable
> national or industry standard, we have adopted our own conventions.
>
> I've worked in several industries and I always use the appropriate
> conventions, but I chuckle to myself when someone says black or red is
> always ...
>
> Pipe measurements are no better. Some industries measure the inside
> diameter, some the outside, and others seem to use a nominal size that
> was established at the dawn of time. I say "nominal" because the "size"
> doesn't agree with what I can measure.
>
> Then there is what we call a "2x4" (pronounced "two by four") in the
> US. It's a long piece of wood that one would expect to measure 2-inches
> by 4-inches, but the 2x4 measurement is the size before the plank is
> cut from the tree. There is also a generous allowance for "finishing".
> I'm guessing that the idea is to have the customer pay for the wood
> that the mill wastes during the sawing process. The result is a piece
> of lumber that is considerably smaller than its name implies.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> spam: uce@ftc.gov
> wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
> 13> (Barry Mann)
> [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>

the measurement for a 2x4 is the rough sawn measurement.It is planed down
after that. You can still in some places get the rough sawn 2x4.
after the planing process the measurements are about 1/2" less in either
direction.

Doug

 

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Doug Schultz wrote:

> "Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news1ohp09bf5m3cm2e5gdgntogi0b2k9b3la@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:22:12 +1100, "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>news:ft8fp09o3n977isarqp3531aj2oadb98do@4ax.com...
> >>>
> >>> In hi-fi terms, red is *always* 'hot', normally meaning that the
> >>> speaker cone moves forward if a positive voltage is present, while
> >>> black is the return.
> >>
> >>JBL would beg to differ.
> >
> > Really? I didn't know that. How strange!
> >
> >>> Live and earth are of course meaningless in terms
> >>> of a loudspeaker, and it's worth remembering that some amplifiers have
> >>> balanced outputs, where neither red nor black are actually at 'ground'
> >>> potential.
> >>
> >>Exactly. As long as the two speakers are wired the same, then they are in
> >>phase. Who cares what color they are.
> >>
> >>>Indeed, for almost all valve/tube amplifiers, the output
> >>> terminals are floating, and either side may safely be connected to a
> >>> copper spike driven into *real* Earth!
> >>
> >>And totally unnecessary for speaker leads.
> >>Be careful of valve amps without an output transformer when trying that
> >>though!
> >
> > Could be very entertaining for a few seconds, though!
> > --
> >
> > Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
>
> Yup JBL lists the black connector as producing a forward cone motion when
> you apply a positive voltage.
>
> Doug

I've always been baffled *why* they do that though.

Graham