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[citation][nom]jkflipflop98[/nom]Orly? Why don't you get me 2.5 tons of Promethium for a project I'm working on. Oh you can't, because that much doesn't exist on Earth.[/citation]
It can be man-made though (which is done now) by bombarding uranium-235 (abundant in nature) with thermal neutrons.
My point was that for most if not all our needs, we can make whatever we need in more than sufficient quantities here on Earth.
We had the technology for reconstituting matter from one form into another one for some time now.
[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]Yes, but very expensive and the resulting material is unfortunately radioactive and that artificial gold necklace will glow in the dark
[/citation]
It can still be used for industrial (and other) purposes. As for it being 'expensive'... only in monetary value. From a technological/resource/manpower point of view (without bringing money into the equation at all), it can be done with relative ease (as can be many other things).
Besides, I personally couldn't care less about gold necklaces or similarly useless trinkets.
It can be man-made though (which is done now) by bombarding uranium-235 (abundant in nature) with thermal neutrons.
My point was that for most if not all our needs, we can make whatever we need in more than sufficient quantities here on Earth.
We had the technology for reconstituting matter from one form into another one for some time now.
[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]Yes, but very expensive and the resulting material is unfortunately radioactive and that artificial gold necklace will glow in the dark
[/citation]It can still be used for industrial (and other) purposes. As for it being 'expensive'... only in monetary value. From a technological/resource/manpower point of view (without bringing money into the equation at all), it can be done with relative ease (as can be many other things).
Besides, I personally couldn't care less about gold necklaces or similarly useless trinkets.
If you wanna invest in this company, please pour your money down this hole over here.
Companies are not stirring up to harvest on the moon, let alone go out clear past mars to tap into asteroids.
Most asteroids are C-Types which contain carbon which could range from graphite to diamond, seeing diamond being just as rare on an asteroid as earth. Others are silica types and M-types which theorized to contain nickel and other metals.
A worthwhile asteroid expedition needs to be mineral rich, and i mean stinkin mineral rich, like football fields worth of gold found on an asteroid.
Companies are not stirring up to harvest on the moon, let alone go out clear past mars to tap into asteroids.
Most asteroids are C-Types which contain carbon which could range from graphite to diamond, seeing diamond being just as rare on an asteroid as earth. Others are silica types and M-types which theorized to contain nickel and other metals.
A worthwhile asteroid expedition needs to be mineral rich, and i mean stinkin mineral rich, like football fields worth of gold found on an asteroid.
maestintaolius
Distinguished
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]deksman[/nom]It can be man-made though (which is done now) by bombarding uranium-235 (abundant in nature) with thermal neutrons.My point was that for most if not all our needs, we can make whatever we need in more than sufficient quantities here on Earth.We had the technology for reconstituting matter from one form into another one for some time now.It can still be used for industrial (and other) purposes. As for it being 'expensive'... only in monetary value. From a technological/resource/manpower point of view (without bringing money into the equation at all), it can be done with relative ease (as can be many other things).Besides, I personally couldn't care less about gold necklaces or similarly useless trinkets.[/citation]
That's some pretty big hand waving you're doing there. Time is money as the saying goes and money is really time, and energy, and resources. When you spend money on something, you're trading something we've arbitrarily decided is worth a certain perceived value for something else that has a perceived value to you. That widget you buy is made from resources, energy and someone else's time and you're paying money that you've been given because you've devoted your time and resources towards making something else (e.g. working at your job, growing crops, etc). Even if you were to hand-wave away the existence of money, you still need to trade something of value to be given something else of value. You're going to have to trade me a lot of grain before I give you a single gram of man-made Platinum, Palladium or Rhodium.
Yes, we can use nuclear neutron decay to make rare earth metals, but that doesn't mean we have an unlimited supply as a result. We can't just make platinum from any 'ol random atoms we have sitting around, only a few particular isotopes can be irradiated with neutron decay that will eventually decay to a stable form of platinum and those isotopes too are in a limited supply.
Supply issues don't even factor in the headache of separating the final product from all the side products you don't want, which is usually the majority of the cost of pretty much anything made (as a ChE example, PFTRs and CSTRs cost pennies to make vs the cost of operating pretty much any separations unit such as a distillation column or liquid liquid extractor). Sure, you can irradiate Ir-191 and Ir-193 and your final product is going to include Pt-192 and Pt-194 and a bunch of other by-products and some remaining raw materials. You're going to have to expend significant amounts of energy separating those either using gas centrifuges, using ionic chemistry, or some form of reversible column system, all of which take energy, resources and have a waste stream. Entropy is a bitch, and you need to expend energy overcoming it. If manufacturing rare earths was really so 'relatively easy', as you put it, we'd be doing it rather than trying to dig something found at 5 ppb out of the earth's crust.
Finally, Uranium-235 is not abundant, it makes up less than 1% or Uranium (which is at about 4 ppm in the soil), so you'd have to purify and separate that too before you can even begin your nuclear alchemy because 238 decays via useless alpha radiation.
That's some pretty big hand waving you're doing there. Time is money as the saying goes and money is really time, and energy, and resources. When you spend money on something, you're trading something we've arbitrarily decided is worth a certain perceived value for something else that has a perceived value to you. That widget you buy is made from resources, energy and someone else's time and you're paying money that you've been given because you've devoted your time and resources towards making something else (e.g. working at your job, growing crops, etc). Even if you were to hand-wave away the existence of money, you still need to trade something of value to be given something else of value. You're going to have to trade me a lot of grain before I give you a single gram of man-made Platinum, Palladium or Rhodium.
Yes, we can use nuclear neutron decay to make rare earth metals, but that doesn't mean we have an unlimited supply as a result. We can't just make platinum from any 'ol random atoms we have sitting around, only a few particular isotopes can be irradiated with neutron decay that will eventually decay to a stable form of platinum and those isotopes too are in a limited supply.
Supply issues don't even factor in the headache of separating the final product from all the side products you don't want, which is usually the majority of the cost of pretty much anything made (as a ChE example, PFTRs and CSTRs cost pennies to make vs the cost of operating pretty much any separations unit such as a distillation column or liquid liquid extractor). Sure, you can irradiate Ir-191 and Ir-193 and your final product is going to include Pt-192 and Pt-194 and a bunch of other by-products and some remaining raw materials. You're going to have to expend significant amounts of energy separating those either using gas centrifuges, using ionic chemistry, or some form of reversible column system, all of which take energy, resources and have a waste stream. Entropy is a bitch, and you need to expend energy overcoming it. If manufacturing rare earths was really so 'relatively easy', as you put it, we'd be doing it rather than trying to dig something found at 5 ppb out of the earth's crust.
Finally, Uranium-235 is not abundant, it makes up less than 1% or Uranium (which is at about 4 ppm in the soil), so you'd have to purify and separate that too before you can even begin your nuclear alchemy because 238 decays via useless alpha radiation.
[citation][nom]maestintaolius[/nom]That's some pretty big hand waving you're doing there. Time is money as the saying goes and money is really time, and energy, and resources. When you spend money on something, you're trading something we've arbitrarily decided is worth a certain perceived value for something else that has a perceived value to you. That widget you buy is made from resources, energy and someone else's time and you're paying money that you've been given because you've devoted your time and resources towards making something else (e.g. working at your job, growing crops, etc). Even if you were to hand-wave away the existence of money, you still need to trade something of value to be given something else of value. You're going to have to trade me a lot of grain before I give you a single gram of man-made Platinum, Palladium or Rhodium.
[/citation]
The very concept of 'value' is idiotic in the first place. People put way too much emphasis on it as is, and they mostly do it for personal gain.
'Time is money' is yet another idiotic term that people grew to associate with reality. Its nothing more than learned behavior.
Money was initially devised as means for rationing resources in scarcity.
That kind of approach was not valid for about a century.
We have more than enough energy to use in wasteful amounts if we so desired, and alternative energy sources for which cost of manufacturing have been artificially driven upwards simply because companies are in this entire game for the purpose of making money.
In t
[citation]
Yes, we can use nuclear neutron decay to make rare earth metals, but that doesn't mean we have an unlimited supply as a result. We can't just make platinum from any 'ol random atoms we have sitting around, only a few particular isotopes can be irradiated with neutron decay that will eventually decay to a stable form of platinum and those isotopes too are in a limited supply.
[/quote]
Again... isotopes can be man made. Perhaps the process is time consuming, but so what?
Make due with what you have in the best possible way... there are ways to do so without being wasteful.
[/citation]
The very concept of 'value' is idiotic in the first place. People put way too much emphasis on it as is, and they mostly do it for personal gain.
'Time is money' is yet another idiotic term that people grew to associate with reality. Its nothing more than learned behavior.
Money was initially devised as means for rationing resources in scarcity.
That kind of approach was not valid for about a century.
We have more than enough energy to use in wasteful amounts if we so desired, and alternative energy sources for which cost of manufacturing have been artificially driven upwards simply because companies are in this entire game for the purpose of making money.
In t
[citation]
Yes, we can use nuclear neutron decay to make rare earth metals, but that doesn't mean we have an unlimited supply as a result. We can't just make platinum from any 'ol random atoms we have sitting around, only a few particular isotopes can be irradiated with neutron decay that will eventually decay to a stable form of platinum and those isotopes too are in a limited supply.
[/quote]
Again... isotopes can be man made. Perhaps the process is time consuming, but so what?
Make due with what you have in the best possible way... there are ways to do so without being wasteful.
Asteroid Mining could be used to build a great full time transport between earth and Mars, just hollow out a good size space rock build a habitat inside. and set the whole thing orbiting earth and mars, in fact build more than one, for a regular service between the two planets! There could be a full time crew assigned to each rock/ship and plenty of protection from space radiation by building the quarters in the center of the Asteroid. In fact fuel could come from the frozen liquids on the snow covered asteroids as well as from the rocks themselves! no need expending precious fuel getting resources out of earth's gravity well!
spentshells
Distinguished
- Apr 1, 2006
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[citation][nom]dreadlokz[/nom]hard to believe it is worth it! One thing is research, other is profit from it! I don't believe it will be profitable before 2 or 3 decades! Better chance of mining the moon till there![/citation]
I really hope not because if we start changing the mass of the moon by hundreds ofmillions of tonnes we may end up in some trouble.
I really hope not because if we start changing the mass of the moon by hundreds ofmillions of tonnes we may end up in some trouble.
freggo
Distinguished
- Nov 22, 2008
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[citation][nom]spentshells[/nom]I really hope not because if we start changing the mass of the moon by hundreds ofmillions of tonnes we may end up in some trouble.[/citation]
Yep. It would get lighter and leave it's orbit.
result... no more moon, no more tides...
Yep. It would get lighter and leave it's orbit.
result... no more moon, no more tides...
You mean we won't have to steal Afghanistan's TRILLION$$$ mineral mother lode, recently in the news:http
/www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all
Aside from the greatest space adventure undertaking Ever, w/Payback, it will of course be a great platform to test technologies for asteroid deflection, possibly prior to the return of Apophis, the planet killer, in 2036.
/www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=allAside from the greatest space adventure undertaking Ever, w/Payback, it will of course be a great platform to test technologies for asteroid deflection, possibly prior to the return of Apophis, the planet killer, in 2036.
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