Review: Audio Power Amplifier Handbook, Self

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:ZomdnatJUpEbMQvcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
> > I have never seen a valve hearing aid, although I think some were
> > made in the forties or fifties. I bet he's glad he doesn't have to
> > carry one of those!
>
> There definately were tubed hearing aids.
> http/www.cs.uu.nl/~gerard/RadioCorner/Sets/BlaOmni.htm
> Note the use of subminiature wire-base tubes.
> http/www.lhh.org/archives/hamuseum.htm
> http/www.fishbeinhearingaids.com/hearing_aid_history.htm
> http/www.roger-russell.com/sonopg/sonoha.htm
> http/dept.kent.edu/hearingaidmuseum/development.html
> http/www.hearingcenteronline.com/museum.shtml
> http/www.ccent.com/PHS/history.html
>
http/www.bae.ncsu.edu/bae/research/blanchard/www/465/textbook/otherproject
s/2000/cochlear_00/lizotte/electricaids.html
> http/www.uwm.edu/~bobtreat/messages/30.shtml


Impressive search you have done there Arny, there are an awful lot of people
who would say valves are not better in that application though 🙂

TonyP.

 

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"TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
news:41985d85$0$1959$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:ZomdnatJUpEbMQvcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
>>> I have never seen a valve hearing aid, although I think some were
>>> made in the forties or fifties. I bet he's glad he doesn't have to
>>> carry one of those!
>>
>> There definately were tubed hearing aids.
>> http/www.cs.uu.nl/~gerard/RadioCorner/Sets/BlaOmni.htm
>> Note the use of subminiature wire-base tubes.
>> http/www.lhh.org/archives/hamuseum.htm
>> http/www.fishbeinhearingaids.com/hearing_aid_history.htm
>> http/www.roger-russell.com/sonopg/sonoha.htm
>> http/dept.kent.edu/hearingaidmuseum/development.html
>> http/www.hearingcenteronline.com/museum.shtml
>> http/www.ccent.com/PHS/history.html

> http/www.bae.ncsu.edu/bae/research/blanchard/www/465/textbook/otherproject
> s/2000/cochlear_00/lizotte/electricaids.html
>> http/www.uwm.edu/~bobtreat/messages/30.shtml

> Impressive search you have done there Arny, there are an awful lot of
> people who would say valves are not better in that application though
> 🙂

No doubt. Those were definately the dark ages of assistance for the
hearing-impaired. Other than guitar amps and the like, its hard to imagine a
valid reason to struggle with the well-known limitations of tubes in modern
audio systems.

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> said:

>"Paul Dormer" <signal@lineone.not> wrote in message
>news:kjnhp0h8n59e9lh1aubg9g35ojlqp5npv2@4ax.com
>
>> "Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :
>
>>>"Sander deWaal" <nospam@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>>>news:mo2fp0h4oncb9q5nst028veh88kf0jdmki@4ax.com
>
>>>> "Prove it via a DBT/ABX test".
>>>> (Standard Arny Krueger non-answer when someone he disagrees with
>>>> states his subjective opinion on amplifier sound).
>
>Actually, the purported quote has only been uttered by one Sander DeWaal,
>according to google. I've never said it myself. S
>
>>> Actually, just a standard reality check for *anyone* making
>>> extraordinary claims.
>
>Exactly, and if the comparison involved one the therminonic audible
>distortion and noise generators that DeWall wants to stuff down all of our
>throats as having superior reproduction of music, there would be IMO no need
>for a DBT. Take music, add audible noise, add audible distortion, and why
>wouldn't there be an audible difference?
>
>> That argument has been debunked a gazillion times.
>
>Since the purported argument is a fabrication of the tortured mind of Sander
>deWall, I've got no problems with that sort of characterization.
>
>> Even your mentor
>> Jim Johnston never subscribed to the idea that consumers are compelled
>> to gouge out their visual organs.
>
>Nor have I. But deWall's mentor George Middius has suggested that be the
>case.

Who's this DeWall guy you're talking about?

;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

 

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Sander deWaal said:

> >But deWall's mentor George Middius has suggested that be the
> >case.

> Who's this DeWall guy you're talking about?

And where's my mentoring fee?

> ;-)

Oh, ick. Really.

 

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"Sander deWaal" emitted :

>>Nor have I. But deWall's ..
>
>Who's this DeWall guy you're talking about?

He's imagining nailing you to De Wall.. ;-(


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim up north..

 

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Detector195 wrote:

> oatteaseffen@hotmail.com (Paul) wrote in message news:<462bba80.0411111654.688f1858@posting.google.com>...
> > Bipolar Transistor Power Amplifier Bible
> >
> > I can't imagine a better book about push-pull, audio bipolar power
> > amplifiers. Self covers virtually every possible configuration with
> > circuits, notes, simulations and measurements. This book includes an
> > excellent chapter on power, heat and reliability based on many years
> > of design , manufacturing and field service. He is truly an expert in
> > all aspects of this amplifier topology.
> > He doesn't hide his disdain for MOSFETS, single-ended amplifiers and
> > other "subjectivist" high-end concerns. Contrary to the findings of
> > many others in this field, Self finds Total Harmonic Distortion the
> > only measurement of amplifier quality that matters. He isn't
> > convincing to this reviewer.
> >
> > A "must have" book for anyone designing audio power amplifiers.
>
> Does this bible include IC power amps? Below 100 Watts, is there any
> reason to do it with discrete transistors these days? The MOSFET
> designs I have looked at all required relatively high power supply
> voltages, i.e. they were inefficient. A pair of LM3886's in bridge
> mode seems like the way to go.

The Mosfet designs simply need a decent drive voltage for their enhancement mode output devices. This can be
done by running the previous voltage gain stage off a slightly higher voltage than the mail rails at mere
milliamps. It has other benefits too - such as avoiding saturating the drivers and results in lower Miller
capacitance effects in the drivers.


Graham

 

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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:57:41 +0000, Paul Dormer <signal@lineone.not>
wrote:

>"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :
>
>>I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>
>That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?

Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:18:31 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Detector195 wrote:
>
>> oatteaseffen@hotmail.com (Paul) wrote in message news:<462bba80.0411111654.688f1858@posting.google.com>...
>> > Bipolar Transistor Power Amplifier Bible
>> >
>> > I can't imagine a better book about push-pull, audio bipolar power
>> > amplifiers. Self covers virtually every possible configuration with
>> > circuits, notes, simulations and measurements. This book includes an
>> > excellent chapter on power, heat and reliability based on many years
>> > of design , manufacturing and field service. He is truly an expert in
>> > all aspects of this amplifier topology.
>> > He doesn't hide his disdain for MOSFETS, single-ended amplifiers and
>> > other "subjectivist" high-end concerns. Contrary to the findings of
>> > many others in this field, Self finds Total Harmonic Distortion the
>> > only measurement of amplifier quality that matters. He isn't
>> > convincing to this reviewer.
>> >
>> > A "must have" book for anyone designing audio power amplifiers.
>>
>> Does this bible include IC power amps? Below 100 Watts, is there any
>> reason to do it with discrete transistors these days? The MOSFET
>> designs I have looked at all required relatively high power supply
>> voltages, i.e. they were inefficient. A pair of LM3886's in bridge
>> mode seems like the way to go.
>
>The Mosfet designs simply need a decent drive voltage for their enhancement mode output devices. This can be
>done by running the previous voltage gain stage off a slightly higher voltage than the mail rails at mere
>milliamps. It has other benefits too - such as avoiding saturating the drivers and results in lower Miller
>capacitance effects in the drivers.

Indeed so, and I recall designing just such an amplifier in the late
'70s. Worked pretty well, and had less than 0.1% IMD up to 90kHz. The
multiple rails would probably prove too expensive for a commercial
unit, however.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> said:

>>The Mosfet designs simply need a decent drive voltage for their enhancement mode output devices. This can be
>>done by running the previous voltage gain stage off a slightly higher voltage than the mail rails at mere
>>milliamps. It has other benefits too - such as avoiding saturating the drivers and results in lower Miller
>>capacitance effects in the drivers.

>Indeed so, and I recall designing just such an amplifier in the late
>'70s. Worked pretty well, and had less than 0.1% IMD up to 90kHz. The
>multiple rails would probably prove too expensive for a commercial
>unit, however.

Why not? Most NADs using soft clipping have multiple supply rails.
And you can't accuse NAD for being expensive.......

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

 

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"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :

>>>I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>
>>That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>
>Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂

Me too!

At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim up north..

 

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Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:18:31 +0000, Pooh Bear
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Detector195 wrote:
> >
> >> oatteaseffen@hotmail.com (Paul) wrote in message news:<462bba80.0411111654.688f1858@posting.google.com>...
> >> > Bipolar Transistor Power Amplifier Bible
> >> >
> >> > I can't imagine a better book about push-pull, audio bipolar power
> >> > amplifiers. Self covers virtually every possible configuration with
> >> > circuits, notes, simulations and measurements. This book includes an
> >> > excellent chapter on power, heat and reliability based on many years
> >> > of design , manufacturing and field service. He is truly an expert in
> >> > all aspects of this amplifier topology.
> >> > He doesn't hide his disdain for MOSFETS, single-ended amplifiers and
> >> > other "subjectivist" high-end concerns. Contrary to the findings of
> >> > many others in this field, Self finds Total Harmonic Distortion the
> >> > only measurement of amplifier quality that matters. He isn't
> >> > convincing to this reviewer.
> >> >
> >> > A "must have" book for anyone designing audio power amplifiers.
> >>
> >> Does this bible include IC power amps? Below 100 Watts, is there any
> >> reason to do it with discrete transistors these days? The MOSFET
> >> designs I have looked at all required relatively high power supply
> >> voltages, i.e. they were inefficient. A pair of LM3886's in bridge
> >> mode seems like the way to go.
> >
> >The Mosfet designs simply need a decent drive voltage for their enhancement mode output devices. This can be
> >done by running the previous voltage gain stage off a slightly higher voltage than the mail rails at mere
> >milliamps. It has other benefits too - such as avoiding saturating the drivers and results in lower Miller
> >capacitance effects in the drivers.
>
> Indeed so, and I recall designing just such an amplifier in the late
> '70s. Worked pretty well, and had less than 0.1% IMD up to 90kHz. The
> multiple rails would probably prove too expensive for a commercial
> unit, however.

My designs using this method have gone into production in the pro-audio sector. It just involves a few more small
gauge turns on the power TX, a small bridge and some small caps.

Yes, it costs extra but it's the only sensible way to drive mosfets. Look at it like this - you get more watts
out for the same main supply rail voltage way more economically than increasing the main rails. Total cost / watt
is probably actually lower. Less dissipation in the output devices too.

I've used the technique for bipolar designs as well.


Graham

 

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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:10:45 +0000, Paul Dormer <signal@lineone.not>
wrote:

>"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :
>
>>>>I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>>
>>>That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>>
>>Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
>
>Me too!
>
>At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂

OK, I take back every bad thing I may ever have said about you. Anyone
who loves the DB9 can't be all bad! 🙂
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c31lp0l0uilg2gd2i7fmivt3q0la40jbko@4ax.com
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:10:45 +0000, Paul Dormer <signal@lineone.not>
> wrote:
>
>> "Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :
>>
>>>>> I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>>>
>>>> That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>>>
>>> Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
>>
>> Me too!
>>
>> At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂
>
> OK, I take back every bad thing I may ever have said about you. Anyone
> who loves the DB9 can't be all bad! 🙂

About as close to owning a DB9 that Dormer will ever get is a serial port.

 

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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:33:26 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:18:31 +0000, Pooh Bear
>> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Detector195 wrote:
>> >
>> >> oatteaseffen@hotmail.com (Paul) wrote in message news:<462bba80.0411111654.688f1858@posting.google.com>...
>> >> > Bipolar Transistor Power Amplifier Bible
>> >> >
>> >> > I can't imagine a better book about push-pull, audio bipolar power
>> >> > amplifiers. Self covers virtually every possible configuration with
>> >> > circuits, notes, simulations and measurements. This book includes an
>> >> > excellent chapter on power, heat and reliability based on many years
>> >> > of design , manufacturing and field service. He is truly an expert in
>> >> > all aspects of this amplifier topology.
>> >> > He doesn't hide his disdain for MOSFETS, single-ended amplifiers and
>> >> > other "subjectivist" high-end concerns. Contrary to the findings of
>> >> > many others in this field, Self finds Total Harmonic Distortion the
>> >> > only measurement of amplifier quality that matters. He isn't
>> >> > convincing to this reviewer.
>> >> >
>> >> > A "must have" book for anyone designing audio power amplifiers.
>> >>
>> >> Does this bible include IC power amps? Below 100 Watts, is there any
>> >> reason to do it with discrete transistors these days? The MOSFET
>> >> designs I have looked at all required relatively high power supply
>> >> voltages, i.e. they were inefficient. A pair of LM3886's in bridge
>> >> mode seems like the way to go.
>> >
>> >The Mosfet designs simply need a decent drive voltage for their enhancement mode output devices. This can be
>> >done by running the previous voltage gain stage off a slightly higher voltage than the mail rails at mere
>> >milliamps. It has other benefits too - such as avoiding saturating the drivers and results in lower Miller
>> >capacitance effects in the drivers.
>>
>> Indeed so, and I recall designing just such an amplifier in the late
>> '70s. Worked pretty well, and had less than 0.1% IMD up to 90kHz. The
>> multiple rails would probably prove too expensive for a commercial
>> unit, however.
>
>My designs using this method have gone into production in the pro-audio sector. It just involves a few more small
>gauge turns on the power TX, a small bridge and some small caps.

Good point, that seems an excellent cost-effective solution.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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"Detector195" <Detector195@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> Does this bible include IC power amps? Below 100 Watts, is there any
> reason to do it with discrete transistors these days? The MOSFET
> designs I have looked at all required relatively high power supply
> voltages, i.e. they were inefficient. A pair of LM3886's in bridge
> mode seems like the way to go.

Seems to be pretty standard in most of the active speakers made in teh last
ten years, for tweeters.

geoff

 

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"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :

>>>>>I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>>>
>>>>That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>>>
>>>Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
>>
>>Me too!
>>
>>At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂
>
>OK, I take back every bad thing I may ever have said about you. Anyone
>who loves the DB9 can't be all bad! 🙂

Correct, Stewart..

How about that Vanquish V12? Excuse me whilst I faint.. ;-)

BTW Didn't you say you went to school with Connery? He used to live a
couple of miles from here. Pretty modest house, too. Small world
innit..


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim up north..

 

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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:18:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:c31lp0l0uilg2gd2i7fmivt3q0la40jbko@4ax.com
>> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:10:45 +0000, Paul Dormer <signal@lineone.not>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :
>>>
>>>>>> I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>>>>
>>>>> That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>>>>
>>>> Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
>>>
>>> Me too!
>>>
>>> At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂
>>
>> OK, I take back every bad thing I may ever have said about you. Anyone
>> who loves the DB9 can't be all bad! 🙂
>
>About as close to owning a DB9 that Dormer will ever get is a serial port.

LOL - good lateral thinking! 🙂
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

 

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"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :

>>>>>>> I'm always cute, so the girls tell me 🙂
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's highly implausible. Since when was Rab C Nesbitt cute?
>>>>>
>>>>> Never, but I'm much more Sean Connery............. 🙂
>>>>
>>>> Me too!
>>>>
>>>> At least.. I'm hankering after a DB9.. 🙂
>>>
>>> OK, I take back every bad thing I may ever have said about you. Anyone
>>> who loves the DB9 can't be all bad! 🙂
>>
>>About as close to owning a DB9 that Dormer will ever get is a serial port.
>
>LOL - good lateral thinking! 🙂

I don't have friends with boats.. but I do have friends with DB9's.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim up north..