Stereophile not the only snakeoil salesmen

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> Guitar cable is an example of an inductive high impedance
> source (the pickup) driving a capacitive load (the cable).
> What would usually be trivial changes in cable capacitance
> could make an audible difference.

I assume the impedance is trdaitional because of tube amplifiers that
naturally had a high input impedance, and the higher inductance pickup
had higher output voltage hence lower noise.

Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance, so
they'd work with a mic input and be relatively unaffected by cable
capacitance and microphony? Mics managed that change years ago!

Anahata

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anahata <anahata@treewind.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance, so
>they'd work with a mic input and be relatively unaffected by cable
>capacitance and microphony? Mics managed that change years ago!

Folks have tried to do this many times, the most famous being the
Les Paul Recording pickups. But for the most part, guitarists don't
like the way they sound.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Anahata" wrote...
> Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance, so
> they'd work with a mic input and be relatively unaffected by cable
> capacitance and microphony? Mics managed that change years ago!
>
> Anahata

Tradition (read: "inertia"). Musicians.
Good luck.

 

[steve]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anahata wrote:
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> > Guitar cable is an example of an inductive high impedance
> > source (the pickup) driving a capacitive load (the cable).
> > What would usually be trivial changes in cable capacitance
> > could make an audible difference.
>
> I assume the impedance is trdaitional because of tube amplifiers that
> naturally had a high input impedance, and the higher inductance pickup
> had higher output voltage hence lower noise.
>
> Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance, so
> they'd work with a mic input and be relatively unaffected by cable
> capacitance and microphony? Mics managed that change years ago!
>
It's been done, but they didn't go over that well. Most serious guitar
amps are tube and a low-z pickup had to be interfaced properly to sound
normal.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <d721mq$n97$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com writes:

> >Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance

> Folks have tried to do this many times, the most famous being the
> Les Paul Recording pickups. But for the most part, guitarists don't
> like the way they sound.

Not that it has anything to do with impedance, but maybe even high
impedance pickups would hum less if they were connected with
two-conductor shielded cable to a differential input on the guitar
amplifier.

I recall seeing one model of the Les Paul Recording guitar and
companion amplifier that had XLR connectors on the guitar and
amplfier, but that's about the extent of it. I think that most
low impedance pickups (Ol' Chet had some made at one time, too) were
connected with an unbalanced. Probably because the guitar players were
always forgetting their chords. <g>



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Anahata wrote:

> >Isn't it about time guitar pickups were wound at a lower impedance, so
> >they'd work with a mic input and be relatively unaffected by cable
> >capacitance and microphony? Mics managed that change years ago!

> Folks have tried to do this many times, the most famous being the
> Les Paul Recording pickups. But for the most part, guitarists don't
> like the way they sound.

When Eric Johnson played the Alembic I have he liked some things about
it, but not that it wouldn't feed back.

OTOH, my brother spent about fifteen minutes working with it to mimic an
acoustic guitar sound and damn near matched my lovely J200 into a good
mic.

--
ha

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
>> "Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> Ratt Mahem wrote:
>>
>>>> In the Feb 2204 Guitar Player, they were hawking a
>> "Analysis Pro Plus
>>>> Oval Studio" cable for $299. 300 bucks for a 10' guitar
>> cable! It
>>>> even won the "Editor's Pick Award" and was described as
>> "Warm,
>>>> full-bodied, and liquis smooth," and truely "reference
>> quality."
>>
>>> Try a cheap standard TV co-axial cable as a guitar cable.
>> You might well
>>> be be surprized.
>>
>> Guitar cable is an example of an inductive high impedance
>> source (the pickup) driving a capacitive load (the cable).
>> What would usually be trivial changes in cable capacitance
>> could make an audible difference.
>
> Absolutely. Even connectors can make audible differences in this
> sort of situation.
>

What do you mean by this? As far as sound goes, if the connectors are
mechanically sound, then the connecters make no difference to the sound
whatsoever. Contact resistance is way too low to have any effect. Sure,
if the contacts are corroded they may be a problem, but any old clean
contact will do fine.

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http/www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kevin Aylward <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely. Even connectors can make audible differences in this
>> sort of situation.
>
>What do you mean by this? As far as sound goes, if the connectors are
>mechanically sound, then the connecters make no difference to the sound
>whatsoever. Contact resistance is way too low to have any effect. Sure,
>if the contacts are corroded they may be a problem, but any old clean
>contact will do fine.

Try measuring the shunt capacitance of a 1/4" phone plug. With a 1M
line, it's not negligible.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Kevin Aylward <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>
>>> Absolutely. Even connectors can make audible differences in this
>>> sort of situation.
>>
>> What do you mean by this? As far as sound goes, if the connectors are
>> mechanically sound, then the connecters make no difference to the
>> sound whatsoever. Contact resistance is way too low to have any
>> effect. Sure, if the contacts are corroded they may be a problem,
>> but any old clean contact will do fine.
>
> Try measuring the shunt capacitance of a 1/4" phone plug.

I doubt if its more then about 10p, and is totally insignificant
compared to the cable capacitance. Guitar cable might be around 100p/M.

> With a 1M
> line, it's not negligible.
> --scott

Oh dear...

The line isn't 1 Mohm. That's only the input resistance of the amplifier
input, with should be as high as possible. Its the source impedance that
matters. A guitar source might be 5k in series with 1H-2H. At 10khz a 2H
inductance will give a 100k impedance.

Indeed, one could make the input resistance of the amplifier 100M giving
a 10p HF corner of 159Hz! This comer is of course completely imaginary.

Oh dear...this is like taking candy from babies, with their hands tied
behind their back.

If you would like, you can download my SuperSpice and actually do some
simulations with cables and stuff. The advantage, is that you can check
things out before making comments in NG's and then be sure that they are
correct first, and so not look a bit silly

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http/www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Stereophile not the only snakeoil salesmen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
> Stereophile not the only snakeoil salesmen

My software is the cheapest on the market. Secondly, you can build and
run pretty big circuits all with the demo version.

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http/www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message news:_1ple.136544$Cq2.90320@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> > Stereophile not the only snakeoil salesmen
>
> My software is the cheapest on the market. Secondly, you can build and
> run pretty big circuits all with the demo version.

Sorry Kevin, I was just moving back to the subject,
which was *not* your software or amp designs.

;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kevin Aylward wrote:

> I doubt if its more then about 10p, and is totally insignificant
> compared to the cable capacitance.

Real engineers measure this stuff instead of stating "I doubt". Then
they respond on the basis of their observation of measurements.

--
ha