The Hobbit Shot at 48fps Instead of 24fps, Mixed Reactions

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After getting a 120hz LED TV, when you have the 120hz enabled it has the "Saop Opera" Effect. I LOVE the Soap Opera effect. It pulls you in more because the screen has a lifelike near 3d appearance.

Film needing to look "cinematic" is just a euphemism for "i don't like new things even when they are better".
 
The increased frame rate and the advent of 4k should be employed if and when the story calls for it. Its seems P.J. has caught the Techno-bug from hanging around James Cameron. 3D was created to put asses in seats. A Gimmick and a bad one at that in that after 20 mins i don't notice the "3d" i paid for unless i look for it. Which means I'm paying less attention to unimportant things like story. "The right tool, for the right job"- For people harping on how realistic 48+ frames is (i agree) we are talking about MIDDLE EARTH, a fantasy world. A sense of unrealism is what people are coming to see. A FANTASY. When i go to a movie i want to be taken away from reality for a bit, if i want back, it i leave the theatre. reality is free of charge. Movies that deal with more realistic subject matter would definitely benefit the upgrade however. HOBBIT? NO!
 
FINALLY! I hope this catches on. I don't know if 48 is fast enough, but I know that current frame rates are way too low. I have to close my eyes whenever a movie pans because the stutter is disorienting.
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]A lot of negative people in here, you haven't seen the movie yourself and you're pissing all over it, Peter Jackson knows what he is doing a lot more than you do[/citation]

That's like Saying Rush Limbaugh actually knows what he's doing because he's a "professional"

Maybe he is, mayhaps he isn't. I haven't seen the clips or movie so I'm not going to pass judgement. However, I will say that most moviegoers are expecting the industry standard because of the blur and such. It's ingrained to our society.
 
48 FPS actually looks very nice once you "untrain" yourself to quit looking for the artifacts created by the older technology. I guess you'll always have people who complain about better tech (look at the audiophiles who complain that CDs don't have popping and cracking like albums do...) If 48 FPS is too "fluid" and "lifelike" just learn to blink really fast and you'll have your 24 FPS back. :)
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]id rather have nice crisp images, and so help me god if a shakey cam movie was made to look any better...a movie only looks like that because it was the lowest frame rate that looked acceptable back than, film cost allot of money... we don't have to use film any more, so why are we still useing a dated frame rate? film looks like it does because of FLAWS.personally i dont see 3d in normal life, so my only taste of it is in a theater... i never lose the depthsecondly, with the porn... i have to agree... things that before weren't noticeable on camera, now are a red bullseye... ill never forget the first ingrown hair on a butt i saw in hd... but at the same time, i never liked movies, i preferred pictures, and they were always higher definition, but the models are almost always either made up to look better, or photoshoped the more... do not wants out, cant do that with video.[/citation]

You don't see 3d in "normal" life. Are you a cyclops? A pirate? What happened to your depth perception?
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]A lot of negative people in here, you haven't seen the movie yourself and you're pissing all over it, Peter Jackson knows what he is doing a lot more than you do[/citation]

Actually the truth is that James Cameron has recently been crowned King of the World [Hollywood] and dictated that hence forth all cinema shall be filmed at 48fps because it better suits 3D (and the movies that he fancies to make); Jackson is just tagging along. The real tragedy here (one that most people completely overlook because they're too busy being critical over something they do not understand, just so they can follow the herd) is that an even increasing number of small cinemas will have to close down, unable to afford the costly upgrade in projection hardware. There are many cinemas around the world that have invested vast sums of money over the past 2-3 years in new digital projection technology (a once in 20 years investment), but that technology to some degree is already obsolete. Many projectors that were fine screening 2K or 4K at 24fps are unable to screen 48fps, so they need to be replaced.
 
Reality is shown in infinite fps, so higher frame rates is a trend I welcome for movies that want to be more realistic as far as experience goes.
 
About time higher frame rate has been used. I personally have been spoiled by higher frame rate movies too, and really do not enjoy 24FPS in movies anymore. Hopefully more movie producers follow the higher frame rate.
 
[citation][nom]whysobluepandabear[/nom]Someone tell me why higher FPS is bad? Is this the same argument that people have with record players vs digital? They're convinced that, that "Noise" somehow makes it sound better?[/citation]

The studios have to spent 2x as much on film.
They may get less profit or -heavens forbid- overpay the main 'star' a little less money.

 
[citation][nom]teddymines[/nom]Reality is shown in infinite fps, so higher frame rates is a trend I welcome for movies that want to be more realistic as far as experience goes.[/citation]

Reality isn't shown in infinite FPS. FPS is digital. The human eye is analogue. It's different. Furthermore, there's a limit to how much we can see (varies widely, depending on the person). I don't know where most people reach their limit, but an equivalent to ~60 to ~240FPS seems like a likely range.
 
[citation][nom]halls[/nom]I've seen a movie playing at higher than 24 FPS, and I have to repeat the complaint I heard from a reviewer who wrote about seeing a screening of the Hobbit at 48: it looks weird. Reminds me of a soap opera's camera work. This could probably change if every movie from now on were shot at 48, but because I have only ever seen soap operas at a higher framerate, I have that association and it will be hard to shake for a while.[/citation]

Theres a huge difference between a movie playing at higher FPS and a movie actually SHOT at higher fps. Even upsampling from 24 to 29.97 fps looks really weird because every so many frames are duplicates, while downsampling actually drops frames. The reason Charlie Chaplin films look so weird on TV is that they were shot at 12 fps (or 16 cant remember) before the industry adopted the 24 frame standard, and were converted before we knew about sampling. The films were just played straight across, so essentially every second had 2 seconds worth of frames to play, hence the speedy look.

It might be worth noting that there is no logic behind the 24 frame standard other than the cost of the film itself. There was no major technical limitation, no scientific research to determine the best frame rate...just cost. It could've easily been 100 fps if film wasn't so expensive to produce back then.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Reality isn't shown in infinite FPS. FPS is digital. The human eye is analogue. It's different. Furthermore, there's a limit to how much we can see (varies widely, depending on the person). I don't know where most people reach their limit, but an equivalent to ~60 to ~240FPS seems like a likely range.[/citation]

/reposting my relevant comment from another forum on the same subject:

The point at which frames go from looking like a series of still images to something that is perceived as motion by the brain can be as low as 10 FPS. And starts to appear smooth and fluid at around 25. We use 24 fps in film for purely financial reasons. Hollywood wanted a smoother standard than the 12 fps being used up until that point, but because film was so expensive to produce they basically did the bare minimum they could get away with. Unfortunately we have since built our standards around that.

You are right though, that our eye can distinguish very high framerates. Basically, the more information your brain can use to interpolate a sequence of images, the better. There was a study done by a big time effects guy in the 60s, where he shot scenes at varying framerates up to like 200, and measured peoples brain activity as they watched. And right around 100 fps peoples brains started reacting to the footage as though it was real. So truly convincing motion probably doesn't occur until around 100 fps.

Theres also something I recall being referred to as the "picket fence" effect. Imagine a shot panning across a white picket fence with mountains behind it. As the camera pans across the fence, a section of screen will "jump" from fence in frame 1 to mountains in frame 2 and so on from one frame to another. At 24 fps this is a huge problem, our brains dont have enough information to fill in the gaps between frame 1 and 2 and so we end up with a choppy, checkered sequence of frames and we have real trouble defining the shape of the mountains in the background. The problem is alleviated the more frames we add, but doesn't seem to go away until about 96 fps. Just about the same framerate for convincing motion in the study mentioned above. There is a similar problem for stereoscopic 3D filming. Which is why James Cameron wants to shoot Avatar 2 at a higher framerate than standard.

Sorry I dont have any sources for this stuff, I am just repeating some stuff Ive learned in animation classes.
But yeah, when people say the human eye/brain cannot perceive anything above 24/30/whatever fps, they arent taking into account numerous phenomena that can occur with image sequences that don't happen with continuous motion. And all of those phenomena are prevalent in gaming. //and film!
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Reality isn't shown in infinite FPS. FPS is digital. The human eye is analogue. It's different. Furthermore, there's a limit to how much we can see (varies widely, depending on the person). I don't know where most people reach their limit, but an equivalent to ~60 to ~240FPS seems like a likely range.[/citation]

No, like you said, it's different. It's a constant stream. Might as well call it infinite FPS, but that doesn't really matter. I'm not sure if there is a limit to which people stop seeing an increase in smoothness with an FPS increase.
 
[citation][nom]TheZoolooMaster[/nom]The real tragedy here (one that most people completely overlook because they're too busy being critical over something they do not understand, just so they can follow the herd) is that an even increasing number of small cinemas will have to close down, unable to afford the costly upgrade in projection hardware. [/citation]

My thoughts exactly about the whole situation. I have worked in a number of small cinemas (five screens or less) over the years and 2/3 of them have closed down because of the push to digital. There will be no traditional film prints of a movie at 48fps. The whole movie would play back at half speed and would not even fit on a single 6ft wide platter.
 
It would be nice to know if 96fsp would have been the next logical step! Or even higher. It would definitely look different than 24fsp, but so does 10 bit graphic compared to 4 bit graphic...
I agree that we don't have to live in the past, if there is not any good reason for it.
 
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