what TV receivers exist with DTV and screen under 17 inch?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 19:39:50 -0500 willbill <trek@worldwide.net> wrote:

| odds are that small TV sets (with digital tuners)
| will cost more, at least initially
|
| i mean, what is the current cost differential?
|
| KB posted on a RCA 27" HDTV (in this thread) at $300,
| which i saw at a local Wal-Mart at $298 or $299
|
| the "picture" (on this) will become more clear
| in the next 3-to-9 months
|
| the issue is whether or not there will be an
| increased price for small sets with digital tuners?
|
| and how much it might be (initially)

No doubt a digital tuner with format conversion will cost more than the
same size without. But that difference should be dropping now as there
is increasing production of the parts needed to do this for any set.
My worry is the low end market for the small screen will also push lower
quality tuners and converters, too.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http/linuxhomepage.com/ http/ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http/phil.ipal.org/ http/ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:09:27 GMT K. B. <hotmail.com@lis2lis2> wrote:

| On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 19:39:50 -0500, willbill
| <trek@worldwide.net> posted:
|
|>the issue is whether or not there will be an
|>increased price for small sets with digital tuners?
|>
|>and how much it might be (initially)
|
| <http/www.media-visions.com/itv-usdtv.html>
|
| According to this link, in 2004, the $200 Wal-Mart USDTV
| ATSC DTV/HDTV STB cost $150 to build.

This is an OTA subscription service a few markets (one to start based on
what the article says). But will this box also be able to receive OTA
that is transmitted in the clear in any market?

Anyone ever heard of this manufacturer, Hisense? Their web site seems
to be broken (or maybe is Microsoft specific).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http/linuxhomepage.com/ http/ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http/phil.ipal.org/ http/ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

>| According to this link, in 2004, the $200 Wal-Mart USDTV
>| ATSC DTV/HDTV STB cost $150 to build.
>
>This is an OTA subscription service a few markets (one to start based on
>what the article says). But will this box also be able to receive OTA
>that is transmitted in the clear in any market?

I have one (paid a lot less than $200, though), and yes, it can
receive digital OTA fine, although a couple of the channels are a
bit weak and break up badly in bad weather. (Well, the analog
stations are also weak, but degrade more gracefully). The subscription
service as far as I can tell is useless to me as it's not available
in my area (Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas), at least not yet.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:06:49 -0500, willbill
<trek@worldwide.net> posted:

>you posted (in this thread) about a $300 CRT 27" RCA
>TV that has HDTV capability, but only an analog tuner

That RCA TV has an ATSC tuner and an NTSC tuner, but all
18(36) ATSC video formats (includes HDTV, EDTV, SDTV) are
(down)converted for standard resolution display on a 4:3
screen.

>what is the cheapest CRT 27" HDTV (comparable screen quality)
>that has a built in digital tuner? and does it also have
>a built in analog tuner too?

I think the RCA 27" DTV we are discussing is alone in the
marketplace for now (several years ago, Zenith announced a
similar DTV, but I don't know if it was ever on the market).

Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http/www.geocities.com/lislislislis/avdtv.htm>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On 22 Aug 2005 14:20:22 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net
posted:

>Anyone ever heard of this manufacturer, Hisense? Their web site seems
>to be broken (or maybe is Microsoft specific).

<http/www.hisense.com/en/products/tv_detail.jsp?pcat_id=01&pcat_name=TV&pro_id=01-20041008174139&flag=2>

Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http/www.geocities.com/lislislislis/avdtv.htm>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:53:52 GMT K. B. <hotmail.com@lis2lis2> wrote:

| On 22 Aug 2005 14:20:22 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net
| posted:
|
|>Anyone ever heard of this manufacturer, Hisense? Their web site seems
|>to be broken (or maybe is Microsoft specific).
|
| <http/www.hisense.com/en/products/tv_detail.jsp?pcat_id=01&pcat_name=TV&pro_id=01-20041008174139&flag=2>

Thanks, that got a good page.

One drawback on this unit is no support for a universal remote control.
Is that typical for STBs?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http/linuxhomepage.com/ http/ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http/phil.ipal.org/ http/ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 03:40:30 GMT K. B. <hotmail.com@lis2lis2> wrote:
| On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:06:49 -0500, willbill
| <trek@worldwide.net> posted:
|
|>you posted (in this thread) about a $300 CRT 27" RCA
|>TV that has HDTV capability, but only an analog tuner
|
| That RCA TV has an ATSC tuner and an NTSC tuner, but all
| 18(36) ATSC video formats (includes HDTV, EDTV, SDTV) are
| (down)converted for standard resolution display on a 4:3
| screen.

I would say that practice is only acceptable on displays of size 13 inch
or smaller. Above that it would be reasonable to expect better resolution
whether at 4:3 or 16:9. But if it costs signficantly less to do this on
larger screens, then I suppose there is a market for it (people who don't
really care about HD, but do want all the OTA channels).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http/linuxhomepage.com/ http/ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http/phil.ipal.org/ http/ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On 23 Aug 2005 14:41:55 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net
posted:

>I would say that practice is only acceptable on displays of size 13 inch
>or smaller. Above that it would be reasonable to expect better resolution
>whether at 4:3 or 16:9.

I think many TV set makers will take the cheap way out and
downconvert HDTV and EDTV to standard resolution for display
on a 4:3 screen (letterboxed for 16:9 broadcasts).

Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http/www.geocities.com/lislislislis/avdtv.htm>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:06:24 GMT K. B. <hotmail.com@lis2lis2> wrote:
| On 23 Aug 2005 14:41:55 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net
| posted:
|
|>I would say that practice is only acceptable on displays of size 13 inch
|>or smaller. Above that it would be reasonable to expect better resolution
|>whether at 4:3 or 16:9.
|
| I think many TV set makers will take the cheap way out and
| downconvert HDTV and EDTV to standard resolution for display
| on a 4:3 screen (letterboxed for 16:9 broadcasts).

Which would be fine for the small portable TV I am currently in the
market for, but so far cannot find. I just need it to be able to
receive both NTSC and ATSC on US channeling, select all virtual
channels under ATSC, and show the picture regardless of format, and get
the audio out at the correct sample rate (mono is OK). An STB is NOT
an option. Viewable screen size between 7 inch and 13 inch diagonal.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http/linuxhomepage.com/ http/ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http/phil.ipal.org/ http/ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:

> willbill (trek@worldwide.net) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
>
>>i'm interested in finding a low noise preamplifier
>>for my TV antenna
>
>
> ChannelMaster CM7777 if you need both UHF and VHF. Other models in the 777x
> line have the same internals but only amplify one or the other. They aren't
> very popular, though, so the prices aren't much cheaper.


i got a CM7777 and it's made a POSITIVE difference!

thank you!!

one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?

fwiw, a local high end video/audio dealer (tweeter) only
offers the CM7778

specifically, the db gain/noise specs are:
CM7777 CM7778
VHF UHF VHF UHF
23/2.8 26/2.0 16/3.0 23/2.2


bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

willbill (trek@worldwide.net) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
> one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
> offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?

It's possible that too much gain can overload the input section of your
receiver (either analog or digital). Of course, I think the best way to
deal with that is to use the CM7777 and add a variable attenuator in front
of any devices that need it.

--
Jeff Rife | Coach: Yeah, Norm, how come you and Vera never
| had any kids?
| Norm: I can't, Coach.
| Coach: Gee, I'm sorry, Norm.
| Norm: I look at Vera...and I just can't.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:

> willbill (trek@worldwide.net) wrote in alt.video.digital-tv:
>
>>one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
>>offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?
>
>
> It's possible that too much gain can overload the input section of your
> receiver (either analog or digital). Of course, I think the best way to
> deal with that is to use the CM7777 and add a variable attenuator in front
> of any devices that need it.


my hunch is that it's a profit issue with local
dealers and has very little to do with overload
issues with recent equipment (last 5 years)

i had my CM7777 (~25 db gain) running into a
1-to-2 Philips power splitter (~20 db gain/output)
(plus a passive 1-to-2 splitter)

my Panasonic TV was OK with it, and so was my
Panasonic VHS/DVD unit, and also my US Digital
digital TV tuner

if anything, my worst case analog reception
improved *significantly* (the TV and VHS units
are analog)

bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:df2qj20pj2@enews3.newsguy.com...

< snip >
> i had my CM7777 (~25 db gain) running into a
> 1-to-2 Philips power splitter (~20 db gain/output)
> (plus a passive 1-to-2 splitter)
>
> my Panasonic TV was OK with it, and so was my
> Panasonic VHS/DVD unit, and also my US Digital
> digital TV tuner
>
> if anything, my worst case analog reception
> improved *significantly* (the TV and VHS units
> are analog)

I'm planning to buy a CM 7777 or 7775 (UHF only) to use
with a big UHF-only antenna. I'm more worried about INPUT
overload than overloading the reciever inside. I know I can pad
it down if I have to.

What's your experience with preamp overload by local UHF? TKS.

"Sal"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:df2hpg024ut@enews4.newsguy.com...

>
> one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
> offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?
>
> specifically, the db gain/noise specs are:
> CM7777 CM7778
> VHF UHF VHF UHF
> 23/2.8 26/2.0 16/3.0 23/2.2

I checked some CM's specs. The 7778 must be designed to price, because the
performance
doesn't appear better. I would like to see more specs, but CM just hits the
highlights.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Sal M. Onella wrote:
> "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
> news:df2hpg024ut@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
>
>>one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
>>offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?
>>
>>specifically, the db gain/noise specs are:
>> CM7777 CM7778
>> VHF UHF VHF UHF
>>23/2.8 26/2.0 16/3.0 23/2.2


> I checked some CM's specs. The 7778 must be designed to price,
> because the performance doesn't appear better.


agreed!

the fact that a local high-end video/audio store
(www.tweeter.com) only carries the 7778 (and that
CM's suggested list for 7778=$90 vs. 7777=$85,
is what also adds to my suspicion that the 7778
has a higher profit margin (for CM dealers)


> I would like to see more specs, but CM just hits
> the highlights.


agreed

what i'd like to see is an explanation (from CM)
as to why the 7778 has a suggested list that
is $5 higher than the 7777

bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Sal M. Onella wrote:

> "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
> news:df2qj20pj2@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> < snip >
>
>>i had my CM7777 (~25 db gain) running into a
>>1-to-2 Philips power splitter (~20 db gain/output)
>>(plus a passive 1-to-2 splitter)
>>
>>my Panasonic TV was OK with it, and so was my
>>Panasonic VHS/DVD unit, and also my US Digital
>>digital TV tuner
>>
>>if anything, my worst case analog reception
>>improved *significantly* (the TV and VHS units
>>are analog)


> I'm planning to buy a CM 7777 or 7775 (UHF only)


buy the 7777, coz it can do UHF (only), or VHF (only),
or combined (the default), as well as 2 internal switches
(FM on/off, combined/separate) under the metal cover (4 screws?)

i bought mine at www.solidsignal.com.


> to use
> with a big UHF-only antenna. I'm more worried about INPUT
> overload than overloading the reciever inside. I know I can pad
> it down if I have to.
>
> What's your experience with preamp overload by local UHF? TKS.


no problems.

i'm in supurban Chicago, roughly 35 miles from the transmitting
antennas, no problems with English/digital stations 20-60
(20 (PBS WYCC), (26 is still analog only (only one still
not digital)), 32 (FOX), 38 (PAX/Independant), 50 (UPN)

i'm using a medium+ Radio Shack VU-XR120 antenna, which
is rated (by RS) from yellow to red (but not blue or purple,
even though i receive the blue/purple rated stations OK),
in the attic (2nd floor)

see: www.antennaweb.org

the main slam (that i've seen) against digital TV
is that it doesn't work that well with indoor set-top
rabbit ear type antennas (even the powered units);
meaning that digital TV needs good input from a yagi
type antenna (preferrably roof, or secondarily attic)

bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:df58tt02tbh@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Sal M. Onella wrote:
> > "willbill" <trek@worldwide.net> wrote in message
> > news:df2hpg024ut@enews4.newsguy.com...
> >
> >
> >>one thing i do NOT understand is why does ChannelMaster
> >>offer the lower gain/noisier CM7778?
> >>
> >>specifically, the db gain/noise specs are:
> >> CM7777 CM7778
> >> VHF UHF VHF UHF
> >>23/2.8 26/2.0 16/3.0 23/2.2
>
>
> > I checked some CM's specs. The 7778 must be designed to price,
> > because the performance doesn't appear better.
>
>
> agreed!
>
> the fact that a local high-end video/audio store
> (www.tweeter.com) only carries the 7778 (and that
> CM's suggested list for 7778=$90 vs. 7777=$85,
> is what also adds to my suspicion that the 7778
> has a higher profit margin (for CM dealers)

Although I haven't bought from them -- yet -- a place called Stark
Electronics seems to have a good selection of CM (and Winegard) TV reception
parts at competitive prices. I don't know if they stock or what. I
Googled for <"Channel Master" antennas amplifiers> to find Stark and others.
Gonna find out how they are and will report back here.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Sal M. Onella wrote:

> Although I haven't bought from them -- yet -- a place called Stark
> Electronics seems to have a good selection of CM (and Winegard) TV reception
> parts at competitive prices. I don't know if they stock or what. I
> Googled for <"Channel Master" antennas amplifiers> to find Stark and others.
> Gonna find out how they are and will report back here.


good luck with that

fwiw, i didn't think to check out what (if any)
antenna pre-amps Winegard might have

anyhow, i'll be interested in your followup response

bill