Why STILL no UNDELETE??????

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dd8aa1$g1m$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>> Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there could be
>> quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
>> deleted show's space is reused.
>
> Hmm, it's possible, but since there's no telling which areas will be written
> over, it's really hit or miss. How much good is an undelete feature that
> *sometimes* works?

It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already. What
it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens is the
show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is eligible for
"real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully intact as a file up
until that occurs.

Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion could
cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an impossible
task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a suggestion for
two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have higher priority.
That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look for deleted files
greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for
suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for newly deleted
shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a requested recording would
be bumped.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-08-08, Ken Alverson <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> wrote:
> "Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:dd7i3u$vuq$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>>
>> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a reason,
>> because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those shows would
>> never be able to be *undeleted*.
>>
>> An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
>> moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
>> deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).
>
> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
> the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
> deleted show's space is reused.

I guess if you find you keep wanting to undelete season passes hitting
their keep at Most limit or shows you just deleted, perhaps you should
change your habits. Up the Keep at Most limit (or watch the shows or mark
them to not be deleted) and stop deleting the shows after you watch them.

My solution is to just have 2 120GB harddrives. If anything is getting
deleted to make space, I wasn't going to watch it since it takes months
for stuff to go from the top to the bottom with this much room.

--
This is my .sig

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11ff6a41klpr432@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-08-08, Ken Alverson <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete
>> a
>> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
>> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without
>> needing
>> the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
>> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before
>> the
>> deleted show's space is reused.
>
> I guess if you find you keep wanting to undelete season passes hitting
> their keep at Most limit or shows you just deleted, perhaps you should
> change your habits. Up the Keep at Most limit (or watch the shows or mark
> them to not be deleted) and stop deleting the shows after you watch them.

It defaults to five, though...I generally set no limit on KAM, but
occasionally I'll miss a show and then lose the first couple episodes when it
starts rolling over (some shows I'll watch a whole season at a time, waiting
for the last episode before I start watching the first). Granted, undelete
probably wouldn't help me in that case, because I usually don't notice right
when it rolls over the first time, I usually notice after the show has sat at
5 episodes for a few weeks.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
> tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already. What
> it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens is the
> show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is eligible for
> "real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully intact as a file up
> until that occurs.
>
> Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion could
> cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an impossible
> task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a suggestion for
> two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have higher priority.
> That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look for deleted files
> greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for
> suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for newly deleted
> shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a requested recording would
> be bumped.

And the average Tivo user would be expected to understand that? I think
that's just getting needlessly complex, even if it makes logical sense.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Ken Alverson" <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> shaped the electrons to say:
>I delete things as I watch them, so that only shows I haven't watched are
>saved on my Tivo. Occasionally I'll want to undelete something, not because I
>accidentally deleted it, but because someone else asks to see it the next day,
>and I no longer have it.

Yeah, that's usually what makes me want undelete.

Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
then I watch something and thing "I should burn this to DVD" or
something, and before I catch myself I go and delete it.

-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Or why not have an optional super level of KUID option to assign programs?
Something like go to a menu option, enter a sequence of letters or thumbs
up/down...whatever you want. And once it's activated, it'll show what your
delete sequence in the menu so you can't forget it. It'll just make it
harder to accidently delete something.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:dd91cj$lrc$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>> It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
>> tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already.
>> What it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens
>> is the show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is
>> eligible for "real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully
>> intact as a file up until that occurs.
>>
>> Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion
>> could cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an
>> impossible task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a
>> suggestion for two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have
>> higher priority. That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look
>> for deleted files greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed,
>> it would look for suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look
>> for newly deleted shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a
>> requested recording would be bumped.
>
> And the average Tivo user would be expected to understand that? I think
> that's just getting needlessly complex, even if it makes logical sense.

The user wouldn't have to understand it for it to work...the observable effect
would just be a few less potential suggestions when there were undeletable
files on the system. Neither suggestions nor undeletable shows would prevent
a requested recording from being made, and if the user tried to undelete a
show that had fallen off the undeletable list, they would get a polite message
saying that some other show required the space (or depending on how you wanted
to design the UI, it wouldn't even show up in the list and there would be some
sort of notice that /any/ show not on the list has been overwritten by new
shows)

There's lots of little dark corners in the Tivo logic that the average Tivo
user doesn't necessarily understand, but the system as a whole is still quite
usable without requiring the user to understand everything that is going on...

Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:

> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -

What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
that for Sally to watch."
-Joe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ABDDF9179FAstile@129.250.170.93...
> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
>> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
>> whatever).
>
> You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going
> to
> be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even
> an
> undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
> undelete.
>

True in many cases but not all cases. I believe that the setting for keeping
a certain number of 'episodes' will delete items even if there is space
available. Also, Tivo could maintain a temp area for recovery of deleted
items ala MS Windows. All I am saying is that there are times when things
get deleted that it would be nice to be able to get them back.

Cheers
TC

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
>MegaZone wrote:
>
>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
>
>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>that for Sally to watch."
> -Joe
Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
times in the same month

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* GMAN wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
>>MegaZone wrote:

>>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -

>>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>>that for Sally to watch."
>> -Joe
> Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
> times in the same month

Not limited to DirecTV and that is not true for the networks.
--
David
You'll be sorry...

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <ajrrs2xn88.ln2@news.gates-of-hell.com>, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
>* GMAN wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
> wrote:
>>>MegaZone wrote:
>
>>>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>>>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>>>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
>
>>>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>>>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>>>that for Sally to watch."
>>> -Joe
>> Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
>> times in the same month
>
>Not limited to DirecTV and that is not true for the networks.
i was just making the comment that it seems that they always rerun the hell
out of a show anymore.