Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core?

[nebun]

[citation][nom]L2daGee[/nom]Apple's OS simply handles demanding tasks better than any Windows OS to date. That is what you pay for. User friendly, less crashes, less viruses, less tweaking system settings just to get software or hardware to work. Almost everthing simply works better on a Mac. As for crative tasks such as audio and video production, Apple is the best. With that being said I have both PC (XP) and Mac (Snow Leopard).[/citation]

You are so wrong buddy, lol. Friendly user interface you say? NOT. I have both OS types and 99% of the time i use WIN7. I find the interface of WINDOWS to be much easier to navigate through and it makes more sense. Windows now is so stable that it's not even arguing about anymore. More secure, not. Every hacker will tell you that Safari is the easiest to hack, including Snow Leopard.

The dark side is beginning to really shine, so stop being so ignorant.

 

[Sledgehammer1970]

Just bought a Refurb MBP and it was still a bit expensive. We have already invested $$$ on the OS-X platform, but the benefits outweigh the downfalls IMO. http/www.shaggymac.com

 

[miribus]

[citation][nom]quantumrand[/nom]This is a prime example of what the article is about. Apple wants you to think it's using special, quality parts, when in fact it's only using plain old PC parts which you can find at Frys or Newegg.com.The parts Apple uses aren't special magical parts that don't degrade in value, but Apple is trying to make everyone think they are.[/citation]

Agreed. Windows or "PCs" at least gives you the option of installing whatever software you want for whatever price you want to get it for.
Granted this has both positive and negative effects.
1.) Variety
2.) Incompatibility issues that invariably Microsoft somehow gets blamed for, as if the people programming the application are infallable.

In order to have a reasonably powerful system, with Apple, you have to upgrade to an exorbitant amount, but it's ok, because of some plausibly less important OS features and functions I'll never want and won't justify paying a premium for.

I have to pay an extra $500 to get a mediocre 9600M, but it's OK because it includes some cool software I'll never want for "free" and the perception on better quality and better hardware that hasn't been true since at least their switchover to Intel? Awesome.

At the end of the day, the average set of installed software that comes with a windows PC, let alone Linux, system contains more than enough for 95% of users out there. I have MS Office, most people probably do, and I use about 2% of it's rediculously high number of features, but I got it for free.
Otherwise Open Office, or even old-school MSWorks is more than fine.

If you're inclined to need more powerful software then you're probably going to be the unlucky few that spends a bit more. Or not, since the PC of similar spec would've been cheaper anyway.

I'm tired of all these awesome features and software included "for free" in the Apple OS that everyone seems to have no problem mentioning but never really say what they are...
nor mention that there are freeware versions that probably work just as well.
I'm sure there is some worthy stuff there, but I'm thinking the usage/price ratio isn't all that great.
And I'm not convinced about their QC.
If you're telling me that they justify never dropping their prices, or refreshing their hardware for QC reasons... after 2 years... then you have serious manufacturing issues. These things should be trouble-free assembly by now.

 

[Guest]

Good article and argument, but the author really needs to brush up on some computer science...

"(it actually refers to transistor count, but speed is a direct correlation)" = WRONG!

 

[quantumrand]

[citation][nom]asdfasdflkasdflkjasd[/nom]Good article and argument, but the author really needs to brush up on some computer science..."(it actually refers to transistor count, but speed is a direct correlation)" = WRONG![/citation]

It is generally accepted that Moore's Law can be applied to processor speeds, even though it was originally about transistor counts.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

[citation][nom]asdfasdflkasdflkjasd[/nom]Good article and argument, but the author really needs to brush up on some computer science..."(it actually refers to transistor count, but speed is a direct correlation)" = WRONG![/citation]
If this is wrong, then tell us what you think is correct and we will fact-check it.

 

[tommysch]

[citation][nom]nebun[/nom]If you think about it, Apple does make PC machines via BOOT CAMP software. They just don't install the software because of Microsoft software infringement. That's why they developed BOOT CAMP and give their customers the option to install WINDOWS or not.[/citation]

Can you wipe the MBP clean and install Windows on an empty NTFS formated drive? If no, its not a PC.

Whats the point of buying an overpriced laptop only to be stuck with a control freak OS?

BTW I bought my Toshiba Tecra S10 a year and a half ago, I paid 1000CAD for it and it is still superior in every single aspect to a 2000USD MBP today. Just had to wipe it to get rid of the crapware, can you say the same?

 

[ihs97]

I'm a graphic designer that works with both Mac and PC. I have had problems with both of them and have fixed both of them. Once you use both machines on a regular basis you truly begin to realize that what you need the thing to do, they BOTH do equally well.

The mac premium price differential has made me switch to PCs almost exclusively. In fact, I'm convincing one of my designer friends to buy a PC. He asked me to spec it out based on the $1999 price of the iMac 27". I not only specced out a vastly superior system, but there was enough money left over for him to buy a fully unlocked Nexus One phone! Sorry, until Apple comes down to earth on their pricing they will continue to hold less than 10% of the PC market-share.

 

[n00g7]

"While the price you pay, that "mac tax", is more money out of pocket, the peace of mind that you can just bring your laptop, or any Apple product into the store and have it repaired by experts who actually know what they're talking about."

I want some of what you're smoking. You pay an additional $400 for 2 years this service after the first 3 months/year whatever it is. Wholesale thievery.

Since when are these people "experts"? The only difference between them and you with a "Fix It" guide is that they rape your wallet at the cost of not voiding your warranty (often for things that they should cover).
ie: original ipods, apple sold them as "take them anywhere, work out with them, etc ,etc" however, once they realized that too much jostling(from running, or w/e) messed up the hard drive they fine printed a clause telling you not to run with them.

The only reason I'm buying a MBP (when the new one is released) is that they have better resale value. I buy it now for $2000 and turn around and sell it in 2 years for $1700 so long as there is enough idiotic software like ilife and photoshop included with it. $5 in DVD's + piratebay = $300 increase in resale value. Gotta love mac users.

 

[Guest]

An Aside....I've been an Apple fan since the original Mac; I believe I've owned everything. In 2006 I bought a Mac Pro Desktop, 9 gigs ram etc etc. Guess who had it stuck to him when Snow Leopard became available? Apple skipped the EFI update for the first one courageous enough to buy an Intel Mac Pro. Snow Leopard only runs in 32 bit mode and will never be updated.

 

[sailfish]

I agree, the article was critical but not in any kind of deceptive way. If one agrees with the premise, "component price drops and yesterday technology warrants a price drop" then this article handled it quite equitably.

Also, the claim that Apple's demanding engineering made the debut $2000 asking price worth it is subjective but even accepting that argument certainly doesn't justify asking $2000 for what now non-braggable hardware specs.

Lastly, post-sales support is important but I purchased a Velocity PC from Best Buy a couple of years back and never considered calling in the Geek Squad when I encountered a problem. I called the Velocity folks directly and not only did I get connected directly within a few minutes, the person technical expertise was at least level 2 bordering on level 1. The point being, there are excellent support channels available for PCs, as well.

 

[Guest]

ihs97 said: "The mac premium price differential has made me switch to PCs almost exclusively. In fact, I'm convincing one of my designer friends to buy a PC. He asked me to spec it out based on the $1999 price of the iMac 27". I not only specced out a vastly superior system, but there was enough money left over for him to buy a fully unlocked Nexus One phone! Sorry, until Apple comes down to earth on their pricing they will continue to hold less than 10% of the PC market-share."

What other companies are selling 27" LED backlit IPS monitors? I had heard Dell had a 30" one, but searching thru their monitors didn't turn it up. I take it back, they sell an NEC one for $2200. Just the monitor, no computer. If you are speccing something new for your friend and not buying a new monitor, then sure you could do that. The iMac's screen quality is higher than most of the monitors on the market tho, should be now that the yellowing is solved anyway heh.

TommySch said:"Can you wipe the MBP clean and install Windows on an empty NTFS formated drive? If no, its not a PC.

Whats the point of buying an overpriced laptop only to be stuck with a control freak OS?

BTW I bought my Toshiba Tecra S10 a year and a half ago, I paid 1000CAD for it and it is still superior in every single aspect to a 2000USD MBP today. Just had to wipe it to get rid of the crapware, can you say the same?"

PC was a term that pre-dates Windows. In fact you can wipe the MBP and replace the OS, I have friends who did just that with Linux and Windows works with EFI as well as BIOS, so I would assume it can work fine. BTW, you really set things up for the "Of course we can say the same. We didn't have Windows to start with, hence no crapware"

*Disclaimer, I own no Apple products

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

There's a fair bit of misinformation in here. For example, 64 bit drivers are only needed if you're using the 64 bit kernel (which is only used by default on the Xserve line). With the 32 bit kernel you still have access to >3GB of RAM and can still run 64 bit programs. New OSs always have some software incompatibilities at launch, the fact that you've chosen antivirus programs as your examples is a little biased considering virtually no mac users bother with those. You claim it's been a year since the last update when it's been 9 months and an update is imminent (is 9 months that long an upgrade cycle?). You make a point about how the last major update was 2 years ago despite the fact that the only possible upgrade from that platform (i.e. Core i3/i5/i7) has only been available in mobile format for a couple of months (for some reason you claim 6 months which are the power hungry quad core versions which would be unsuitable in terms of battery life). Apple has been using nVidia's Core 2 Duo based chipsets for a while now so as to avoid Intel's horrible integrated graphics. The only mobile chipset by nVidia that has an integrated graphics chip is the 730i with the 9300m/9400m GPU. As far as I can tell, there is no chipset with better Core 2 Duo support with decent integrated graphics out there by nVidia or Intel.

If you want to have a moan about a product being too long in the tooth when every other tech site is talking about the new Arrandale model replacing this one at any moment then fine but the least you could do is get your facts right.

It's clear where your bias lies with articles such as "Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core?" and "MacBook Pro Alternatives : Why NOT To Buy A MacBook Pro" though so why would you need to get your facts straight when you know the majority of posters on this site will blindly agree with you.

 

[Guest]

If the price was "unjustified", the machines wouldn't sell. Given Apple's 4th quarter results, I'd say the author of this article is due for a nice tall glass of STFU.

 

[Guest]

My first impression of this reviewer is that he sounds frustrated

You must have had a bad day when you wrote this article as it amused me at how negative the context was. I wonder what Apple did to p*ss you off lately.

Apple and their actions are the result of the current capitalistic monetary system. They aim their products at the high end of the market for people who can afford to pay for better service and build quality and also they have become something of a status symbol. Steve Jobs is by far the most aligned with his market and, in mine and many opinions, he is a marketing genius.

True they could upgrade their hardware more regular but they have a model that works for them. You cannot deny their outstanding results year on year for the last few years. If i was looking for a laptop at the moment i would most likely hold out seeing as though a new refresh is imminent and thats what lots of customers will be doing.

They are also innovating like very few companies are capable of. Giving the world the option to buy into the Apple lifestyle. The iPod, the iPhone and now the iPad which of course is next on my list of Apple products to own. Sure its not the cheapest but since when was anything of quality cheap.

Also by dragging out the lifecycle of a product it will try to go in the face of moors law and actually help to stop this mindless consumption that is going on around the world. Do you really need that extra next level of power so soon? What scientific breakthrough are you trying to make that requires so much processing power? Talking of which, Moores law is not a scientific law. It is just an observed rate at which companies like Intel have been able to increase the amount of processing power. If you noticed Moores law must be slowing down as a limit was nearly hit a few years ago in the single core design and processor companies have had to switch to a new model of multicore architecture to enable to get the next speed gains due to the limitations at which components in their current design could be shrunk.

Onto other areas of value from Apple. I love the operating system and more importantly the software you get with a mac. Mail is arguably the best mail client in the world, iPhoto brings face recognition and a great way to organise family photos. The time machine built into the OS is very innovative and was one of the reasons i switched to mac when i realised Microsofts automated backup solutions were not very user friendly as my family and important digital stuff became more meaningful. The set and forget style of the TM works very well for the busy father. I have had to upgrade lots of windows PC's to windows 7 at work and it cost me small fortune. £170 per copy per machine x 10 machines. Thats £1700. Snow leopard comes in at approx £50 for family pack of 5 users so £100 for the equivalent 10 mac machines. 17 times cheaper! Not to mention on a mac i do not need to purchase Outlook to connect to my exchange server. It just comes with the operating system. Another £70 per machine.

Sure they may be becoming a victim of their own success lately perhaps even struggling to meet demand a little and getting a slight increase in faulty products. But hey thats the way it goes in the capitalistic world.

They are on an explosive growth curve and i don't think this article is going to do anything to stop them.

My respect for Toms Hardware went down a little today after years of reading their articles. I suppose we all slip up from time to time.

True many of the things said in the article were true. But it was written in such a way that sounded like a good old rant. Still you made me smile and obviously prompted me to respond so perhaps it wasn't such a bad article after all

 

[Guest]

I picked up a macbook laptop at my local pawn shop for $200. It had 10.4 on it and I was able to upgrade to 10.5 with no problems. Issue was when I tried to run Final Cut Pro on it, the stupid intel graphics card wasn't enough.

I can run Leopard (10.5.x) on my Dell Vostro 15", and with a little more work am able to run the graphics enhancements needed for stuff like FCP, etc.

Granted Apple has good thing like FCP in it's realm, but their business model just sucks. They protect their os with bios keyed protection. Kind of proves the point of this article that they need this stuff to stop people from installing OSX on PCs (much cheaper with equivalent hardware)

I think if Sun and Apple actually did merge and put their muscle into their OS and software products instead of forcing antiquated hardware, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[dvd9]

I want an HDMI port! How did you miss that? Even $350 netbooks have an HDMI port, and "they just work".

I want USB 3.0 -at least three ports.

The machines need to lose at least a quarter inch in thickness, and ditch the optical drive inside for a standard included external drive. No one uses Blue-Ray so skip it.

Check out Dell's product line for design tips. They are well ahead of Apple right now. See Latitude Z600 and Adamo.
--

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

I'm interested in all the comments that say something to the effect of "Capitalism means Apple can do whatever it wants, if it works and the computers sell." This is an interesting theory. Of course by law it is true, but I wonder what's so wrong with consumer advocates or journalists expressing an opinion (or being critical) about a company's marketing strategy. In this article, for instance, the author stated that he likes Apple products but is critiquing the corporate policy. Capitalism is not an excuse for "anything goes," nor is the fact that Apple's policies are perfectly legal a reason for critics to keep their mouths shut. Where would we be as a society if nobody eve criticized corporations?

 

[dvd9]

Where would we be as a society if nobody eve criticized corporations?

About where we are now. It's a myth that corporations care much about criticism. It is only what their competitors offer that concerns them. That and laws which impede them. Fortunately for them the US congress is nothing more than a collection of clerks for the Fortune 500.

 

[marraco]

If apple ever gain the mainstream market, it's the end of the way of life we enjoy.

It's the end of competition between AMD and Intel (and maybe the end of both, since apple is not married with x86). It's the end of ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, etc. No more TomsHardware. No more Best GPU for the money. No more best CPU for the money.

The world would turn an apple dictatorship. Apple will sell us crap, at stratosferic prices, Block us to install any software we want. We all be forced to use the same computer, repeat the same official propaganda and apple excuses ("a mac is a ferrari", "the apple in Core 2 is magically better than the i7 in the PC", etc").

Apple will choose what music we can hear. Never nothing like this:
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUtSAD5-xQ
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=82CwZl5721M
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss-2asy7HYY

Because apple knows better than us what we should be hearing on ipod.

apple knows better than us what apps we can install on an iphone.

apple knows better than us what we should think about apple.


apple don't need consumers. apple need iZombies.