Apple Closes App Store Doors to iOS 3.1.3?

[watcha]

[citation][nom]tinnerdxp[/nom]Heheh First of all - article lacks very important information - WHAT devices will be limited - thanks to watcha for pointing it out. On the other hand his argument that Nexus won't get ICS isn't valid at all - a smartphone based on android 1.6 can STILL purchase compatible apps, Apple basically switched that option OFF for customers who DID NOT upgrade yet. It's like selling a car to a person and after 5 years taking the roof and the doors out. You can still drive it - but the product is seriously crippled by company's policy enforced by them not being bothered to support 5% (another missing info in the article - how many devices will be affected?) of 40% of all smartphone users - perhaps the number is so small it doesn't matter in the end? I'm an Android person but let's face it - it's kind of understandable.[/citation]

The ICS argument is entirely valid, because it addresses device support. Some people may have bought the Nexus 7 months ago on a 24 month contract and don't get the software updates which give them the latest features, giving them a push to upgrade. That is far more unacceptable, in my eyes, than a temporary bug with a workaround which causes issues for much much older devices.

People using the original iPhone and iPod can still buy apps through iTunes, it's just temporarily (and possibly due to a bug) disabled on the device, at the moment. Apple hasn't 'switched off' that option for customers. No doubt the issue will be rectified, so in fact the Android issue is worse.

To use your car analogy, it's like the analogue speedo breaking, so the customer has the temporary inconvenience of having to use the digital gauge to the left instead, until the car gets repaired.

 

[Guest]

Ouch, sucks if your using a 5yr old touch or iPhone, still, 5 yrs running for an electronic gizmo is not bad tbh, pretty much on the line of redundant after 5 yrs, does not owe you anything after that sad as it may be!

 

[dotaloc]

^^ (past the advertisement -- if it is still there)

who knew? a relatively reasonable argument on both sides by two people with differing opinions.

...that's rare. way to represent!

 

[aracheb]

@tinnerdrp: Not acceptable that a flagship phone, wont get update to the recent software.

@watcha: Nexus original phone was sold under Google store not on carrier, so your contract thingy does not apply here, nobody is locked to nothing. It really suck to fork 500$ usd and then not be able to upgrade. i know but i least i can still buy and download apps for my android 1.6 released back in 2008.
and you know that if apple fix this.. it is because of the Bad PR this do for them.

 

[silentbobdc]

[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]Thirdly - if you really want to talk about failure to support older devices, look no further than the Nexus One. Launched in 2010, and Google's flagship smartphone - it will not receive the Android Ice Cream Sandwich update. Who is forcing who to upgrade? Who is a communist? Who limits the devices that can upgrade beyond a certain point?[/citation]

I fail to see your point. People with android devices going back to 1.x can still access the market, they just can't install some apps which require more horsepower than their phone possesses. This is about being locked out of the app store (assuming its intentional, well it must be cause apple "just works") not about OS updating timetables.

 

[jblack]

[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]First of all, did you all just completely fail to read the part where it was explained that this may simply be a temporary glitch, or that they can use iTunes as a temporary workaround?[/citation]


Did you read the part where that is a serious PITA? And how many people actually know how to install an App from iTunes anyway (I do, but that is beside the point)?

Second of all - the only devices affected by this are the original iPhone, and the 1st gen iPod. That means that iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S and the 2nd and 3rd-generation iPod touch are not affected at all. The original iPhone was released in June 2007 - before Android had even been released.

Have you tried iOS 4.0+ on a 3G? It is terrible.

Thirdly - if you really want to talk about failure to support older devices, look no further than the Nexus One. Launched in 2010, and Google's flagship smartphone - it will not receive the Android Ice Cream Sandwich update. Who is forcing who to upgrade? Who is a communist? Who limits the devices that can upgrade beyond a certain point?

This isn't about providing updates to the OS on the phone. This is about being able to buy Apps on your phone. I'm certain that anyone with a Nexus One can buy Apps from the Android Market.

 

[uruquiora]

yeah it is called mechanical incremental sales... SMILE, Apple just raped you again , and the best part, you gonna pay money for it

 

[shqtth]

I had a glitch on my iPhone 3G, that didn't allow me to update an app, but I could either click update all, or install a new app. Just the button to update a specific app was unclickable.This was a few months ago, then I updated to 4.0.

 

[watcha]

[citation][nom]jblack[/nom]Did you read the part where that is a serious PITA? And how many people actually know how to install an App from iTunes anyway (I do, but that is beside the point)?Have you tried iOS 4.0+ on a 3G? It is terrible.This isn't about providing updates to the OS on the phone. This is about being able to buy Apps on your phone. I'm certain that anyone with a Nexus One can buy Apps from the Android Market.[/citation]

Pain in the ass, maybe. But it's a bug - that by definition is unintended behaviour, of course it's a pain in the ass. But that isn't the same as it being unsupported, or worse, intended behaviour.

This is absolutely about the support provided on old devices. This, to anyone logical, includes both updates and bug fixes. In the Nexus' case, the users don't even have the option to install '4.0' - which may I remind you is an OPTION not demanded, meaning they have a relatively new phone with already old software. In Apples case, the bug testing on very old devices seems to have slipped through the net and they will remedy it. So, Apple is remedying their gap in support for a much OLDER device, where a workaround already exists. Compare that to Google Nexus, where no such workaround exists, and no plans are in place to put that service back in place on a much newer model.

So which should we be criticising?

 

[watcha]

[citation][nom]silentbobdc[/nom]I fail to see your point. People with android devices going back to 1.x can still access the market, they just can't install some apps which require more horsepower than their phone possesses. This is about being locked out of the app store (assuming its intentional, well it must be cause apple "just works") not about OS updating timetables.[/citation]

As I explained to the other guy - just because the gap in functionality is different, doesn't mean parallels can't be drawn. They both fall under the category of supporting older devices, in Apples case much much older devices.

People are not locked out of the App store at all, which is where your whole sentiment breaks down - there is a workaround. Wheras people on the Nexus ARE locked out, permanently, from ICS. And that's deliberate, intended behaviour from Google, forcing many to upgrade. From Apples perspective it is a bug which will no doubt be remedied.

 

[watcha]

Oh, and to finally round off this discussion, Apple has done exactly what I predicted, fixed the problem in an incredibly timely fashion.

http/www.engadget.com/2011/12/20/apple-fixes-app-store-bug-on-ios-3-1-3-devices-you-can-hold-off/

This is fantastic. Devices first brought out in 2007 and an immediate fix. Credit where credit is due.

 

[silentbobdc]

[citation][nom]watcha[/nom]As I explained to the other guy - just because the gap in functionality is different, doesn't mean parallels can't be drawn. They both fall under the category of supporting older devices, in Apples case much much older devices.

People are not locked out of the App store at all, which is where your whole sentiment breaks down - there is a workaround. Wheras people on the Nexus ARE locked out, permanently, from ICS. And that's deliberate, intended behaviour from Google, forcing many to upgrade. From Apples perspective it is a bug which will no doubt be remedied.[/citation]

I'm glad they fixed it (most likely due to the backlash/negative publicity) but your comparison still doesn't hold water. We were talking about market/app store availability not OS updates. If you want to take that route I'll ask if you can put iOS 5 on a 3G iPhone? No, not supported? That's what I thought. On a 3G you got 4.2.1 as your last update and you only got past 4.1 to fix the intentional bricking it caused with that update. You didn't get 4.2.6, 4.3, 5.0.1, 5.1.

I'm not sure why google not currently releasing only their latest update is such a bad thing when apple abandoned its product many many versions ago.

There, that's a more apples to apples comparison for ya.

 

[watcha]

[citation][nom]silentbobdc[/nom]I'm glad they fixed it (most likely due to the backlash/negative publicity) but your comparison still doesn't hold water. We were talking about market/app store availability not OS updates. If you want to take that route I'll ask if you can put iOS 5 on a 3G iPhone? No, not supported? That's what I thought. On a 3G you got 4.2.1 as your last update and you only got past 4.1 to fix the intentional bricking it caused with that update. You didn't get 4.2.6, 4.3, 5.0.1, 5.1.I'm not sure why google not currently releasing only their latest update is such a bad thing when apple abandoned its product many many versions ago. There, that's a more apples to apples comparison for ya.[/citation]

I think it's very very simple.

Companies can choose to either support old devices, or not support old devices. Within support, that includes things like updates, and it includes things like being able to download apps, ie in this case, bug fixed

To talk about iOS 5 on a 3G phone is to misunderstand the concept of time. The Nexus may have been bought as a 'flagship phone' only 7 months ago - on a 24 month contract. The iPhone original would have been bought in 2007 - and if bought subsequently it is widely known that it is not the 'flagship', so the expectation would not be that the phone would support iOS 5.

However, in the case of the original iphone, you would expect to be able to download apps. Similarly, with the much newer Nexus, you would expect to be able to upgrade, at least within a 2 year period.

Both are about whether or not the support of a legacy device meets the customers expectations. In this case, the expectations of someone who buys an original iPhone are met (now that the bug has been resolved), but the Nexus are not. Indeed, if you look at the entire history of the time phones have been supported, Apple has consistently supported all updates to their entire range at least 2 years after they came out. So, every single iPhone has been able to upgrade to the newest version of iOS at least 2 years after it came out. The Nexus does not meet this very basic criteria.

As such, if anyone is forcing users to buy new phones because of obsoleting hardware much quicker, it is in fact Android and Google. On a final note, please find this concrete evidence which may show you graphically what is meant:

http/www.josephcs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/androidupdates.jpg

 

[silentbobdc]

iPhone 3 is still currently for sale. They're selling it outdated with no update path. While your graphic does do a good job of illustrating your point, the major problem with os updates is that they're usually carrier specific. I have a 1st gen droid (milestone) that's running 2.3.7 (latest build outside of ICS) because I chose not to go with my carriers update path. Apple's dictatorial hold on all devices has the advantage of forcing the carriers to update software on their schedule and thus it is easier to ensure across the board updates. Its also easier for them to put out an update that intentionally bricks a phone or renders it so slow its unusable (3G and 4.1 anyone?). Apple was sued for purposely putting out an update that rendered its older hardware virtually unusable. They got off the hook because the judge ruled that "because iOS 4 was free update, it did not amount to a "sale or lease" regulated under California's Consumer Legal Remedy Act". Not that they didn't intend it to drive sheeple to the newer model but because they didn't charge for the pleasure of bricking your phone.

Additionally, Google addressed the orphaning of devices back in may with a partner initiative to support phones for at least 18 months post release (http/techcrunch.com/2011/05/10/google-partner-android-initiative/). Also, if you really want ICS on your Nexus One there is a Cyanogen mod already available for it.

 

[hoof_hearted]

I bet they call it a glitch. Awful convenient to do this right before the holidays when they are off and kiddies will be getting itunes credit to buy new apps with. I wonder how many will upgrade their jailbroken tetherable devices now. I am sure they will get a sizeable upgrade group out of this, then fix the glitch so they can still sell apps.

 

[watcha]

[citation][nom]silentbobdc[/nom]iPhone 3 is still currently for sale. They're selling it outdated with no update path. While your graphic does do a good job of illustrating your point, the major problem with os updates is that they're usually carrier specific. I have a 1st gen droid (milestone) that's running 2.3.7 (latest build outside of ICS) because I chose not to go with my carriers update path. Apple's dictatorial hold on all devices has the advantage of forcing the carriers to update software on their schedule and thus it is easier to ensure across the board updates. Its also easier for them to put out an update that intentionally bricks a phone or renders it so slow its unusable (3G and 4.1 anyone?). Apple was sued for purposely putting out an update that rendered its older hardware virtually unusable. They got off the hook because the judge ruled that "because iOS 4 was free update, it did not amount to a "sale or lease" regulated under California's Consumer Legal Remedy Act". Not that they didn't intend it to drive sheeple to the newer model but because they didn't charge for the pleasure of bricking your phone. Additionally, Google addressed the orphaning of devices back in may with a partner initiative to support phones for at least 18 months post release (http/techcrunch.com/2011/05/10/google-partner-android-initiative/). Also, if you really want ICS on your Nexus One there is a Cyanogen mod already available for it.[/citation]

You've gone from nearly logical to ridiculous.

The iPhone 3 was released in July 2008. In case you can't do quick maths, that is over 3 years ago. Not just more than 2 years, THREE. Nobody expects phones to support brand new software after 3 years. With Android, it's less than 2.

To argue that an update 'intentionally bricks a phone' rather than Androids choice just to not give the users that choice at all, is beyond ridiculous. The end users decide if they want to update, and they have the option to roll back at any time, so that argument is complete nonsense. They got 'off the hook' legally for this obvious and logical reason. The bottom line is that Android supports their phones for less time - and that is bad.

An initiative is completely irrelevant, I gave you the reality. Don't just deny it. Almost none of their devices have been supported 18 months and even if they were, that would be much worse than iPhone support.

As for Cyanogen mod - how ridiculous to propose that you have to effectively support your phone yourself. If you're prepared to brick your phone you can do the same on any device, it isn't support and it's not comparable. And of course it flies in the face of the rationale Google used to explain why the Nexus wouldn't get the update - so if what you say is true, you prove me correct that they are deliberately refusing the update to devices less than 2 years old - for what purpose? To get all the gullible android users who still believe that open means anything to buy the latest slower hardware and believe they can do anything that iPhone users can't.

 

[watcha]

[citation][nom]hoof_hearted[/nom]I bet they call it a glitch. Awful convenient to do this right before the holidays when they are off and kiddies will be getting itunes credit to buy new apps with. I wonder how many will upgrade their jailbroken tetherable devices now. I am sure they will get a sizeable upgrade group out of this, then fix the glitch so they can still sell apps.[/citation]

As I said, it's already been fixed.

 

[watcha]

Not to mention that using CyanogenMod can, in a lot of cases, void your warranty.

 

[watcha]

And also it's not even available yet:

http/forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/38924-cm9-ics-progress-update-for-nexus-one/

 

[eddieroolz]

Either way people must have seen this coming...iOS3 devices are at least two years old by now.