Archiving LD to DVD

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
: I'm interested in archiving some of my LDs to DVD and don't know where to
: start. I looks like none of the stand alone DVD recorders will accept 5.1
: audio input (please correct me if I'm wrong, I've just started looking at
: them and don't understand all the technology yet) which means I should be
: directing my attentions to video capture cards and sound cards for a PC.
: Does anyone have any experience with this or know of any good resources in
: print or on the web that I can read? Any specific cards I should be looking
: at or avoiding?

I'm about to record my first LD to DVD. This is my approach. I have a LifeView
FlyVideo 3000FM cheap video capture (TV Tuner) card with Philips based chipset.
Philips ADC (analog to digital converter) are used in professional cards like
Pinnacle PRO-ONE, Pinnacle DV500, Fast AV Master. So even though the card is
cheap the AD conversion is still going to be professionally looking.

Anyway, I'll plug either S-video or Composite to this capture card. For the
sound I will plug S/PDIF digital of LD player to my M-Audio Audiophile 2496
soundcard. On my LDs audio is recorded as 44.1kHz stereo. I'll capture it in
HUFFYUV AVI at 704x480 resolution 29.97fps. Once I get AVI file, I'll separate
audio from video and then I'll manually sync audio to video in case they don't
match. Then I'll convert WAV from 44.1kHz to 48kHz with SSRC converter. And
the rest will be taken care by TMPGEnc.

Your case is not so simple. You have 5.1. What you can do is to record a movie
say with a canopus card. Separate audio from video in AVI file. Then separately
record an audio using your soundcard digital to digital in 5.1. I don't know
how you can do 5.1. Ask in rec.audio.pro. Then compare these 2 WAV files using
a sound editor, adjust a newely recorded WAV file to match the original WAV.

Good luck.

leonid underscore makarovsky at yahoo dot com.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
: LD's video is stored composite. The real question is where is the better comb
: filter? In the LD player, or in the capture card? Considering the
: technological differences of when LD vs. capture card was manufactured, the
: capture card is most likely to have a more sophisticated comb filter.

I'll try both now and I'll let you know. But again my card is a cheapo
FlyVideo 3000FM.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 13 May 2004 00:30:45 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>Your case is not so simple. You have 5.1. What you can do is to record a movie
>say with a canopus card. Separate audio from video in AVI file. Then separately
>record an audio using your soundcard digital to digital in 5.1. I don't know
>how you can do 5.1. Ask in rec.audio.pro. Then compare these 2 WAV files using
>a sound editor, adjust a newely recorded WAV file to match the original WAV.

Capping AC-3 isn't that tough. You can do it with some pretty cheap
sound cards. Mine does it, and cost about $50 CDN. Capture via S/PDIF
in CoolEdit, save as a WAV, process with BeSplit, and you're done!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi and thanks for your input Leonid and Karyudo.

So the AC-3 stream is carried over the right analog channel (RCA jack) if I
recall correctly (actually on my LD it was modified and has its own jack).
I am assuming I should use my RF demodulator between the LD player and the
soundcard so that it converts the steam into something the soundcard can
deal with? Would it makes sense to run the stream from LD -> demodulator ->
Stereo Receiver -> soundcard? Or is that just inserting another source of
potential noise and signal degradation? Is a card such as the M-Audio
revolution a good card to use for this purpose? Is there a better solution
that doesn't exceed $150-$200? I'll check out the audio newsgroup as well
to see if they have any solutions.

Again many thanks for your help!

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:c7ufjl$ou9$1@news3.bu.edu...
> CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> : I'm interested in archiving some of my LDs to DVD and don't know where
to
> : start. I looks like none of the stand alone DVD recorders will accept
5.1
> : audio input (please correct me if I'm wrong, I've just started looking
at
> : them and don't understand all the technology yet) which means I should
be
> : directing my attentions to video capture cards and sound cards for a PC.
> : Does anyone have any experience with this or know of any good resources
in
> : print or on the web that I can read? Any specific cards I should be
looking
> : at or avoiding?
>
> I'm about to record my first LD to DVD. This is my approach. I have a
LifeView
> FlyVideo 3000FM cheap video capture (TV Tuner) card with Philips based
chipset.
> Philips ADC (analog to digital converter) are used in professional cards
like
> Pinnacle PRO-ONE, Pinnacle DV500, Fast AV Master. So even though the card
is
> cheap the AD conversion is still going to be professionally looking.
>
> Anyway, I'll plug either S-video or Composite to this capture card. For
the
> sound I will plug S/PDIF digital of LD player to my M-Audio Audiophile
2496
> soundcard. On my LDs audio is recorded as 44.1kHz stereo. I'll capture it
in
> HUFFYUV AVI at 704x480 resolution 29.97fps. Once I get AVI file, I'll
separate
> audio from video and then I'll manually sync audio to video in case they
don't
> match. Then I'll convert WAV from 44.1kHz to 48kHz with SSRC converter.
And
> the rest will be taken care by TMPGEnc.
>
> Your case is not so simple. You have 5.1. What you can do is to record a
movie
> say with a canopus card. Separate audio from video in AVI file. Then
separately
> record an audio using your soundcard digital to digital in 5.1. I don't
know
> how you can do 5.1. Ask in rec.audio.pro. Then compare these 2 WAV files
using
> a sound editor, adjust a newely recorded WAV file to match the original
WAV.
>
> Good luck.
>
> leonid underscore makarovsky at yahoo dot com.
>
> --Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
: So the AC-3 stream is carried over the right analog channel (RCA jack) if I
: recall correctly (actually on my LD it was modified and has its own jack).

Why don't you want to use digital S/PDIF?

: I am assuming I should use my RF demodulator between the LD player and the
: soundcard so that it converts the steam into something the soundcard can
: deal with? Would it makes sense to run the stream from LD -> demodulator ->
: Stereo Receiver -> soundcard? Or is that just inserting another source of

Why?

: potential noise and signal degradation? Is a card such as the M-Audio
: revolution a good card to use for this purpose? Is there a better solution
: that doesn't exceed $150-$200? I'll check out the audio newsgroup as well
: to see if they have any solutions.

Do you already own M-Audio revolution? I don't think you can go wrong with
M-Audio. I would avoid SoundBlaster though.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: (supports WDM captures, also free). This is a better combination than
: any DV solution, because there is no lossy compression applied.

I would question that one. Are you saying that this card gives a better image
quality on DVD project than $500 Canopus ADVC300? I'm not sure about that. I
never owened Canopus cards, but I know that they are very very good. The bad
thing is that they don't have S/PDIF or digital optical input.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi Leonid,

My (limited) understanding is that the digital out carries DTS not AC-3 and
I am interested in getting the Dolby Digital signal to DVD (although I will
probably play with the DTS signal as well). Again my understanding of this
is limited so please let me know if I'm wrong.

No I do not own an M-Audio Revolution at this point. A friend indicated
that it had great analog sound so he thought it might be a good card for
this purpose (plus I think he wanted to sell it to me cheap because it
didn't do what he wanted it to in his Home Theater PC). The addition of the
receiver to the stream because I think (I'll have to look at this closer to
find out for sure) that the receiver can pass Dolby Digital over digital
coax. Currently I only have mobo sound solutions and am not averse to
purchasing a decent card if it results in a better transfer of sound to the
final product. Thanks for the heads up on the Soundblasters

Chris in NC

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:c7urdr$lbr$2@news3.bu.edu...
> CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> : So the AC-3 stream is carried over the right analog channel (RCA jack)
if I
> : recall correctly (actually on my LD it was modified and has its own
jack).
>
> Why don't you want to use digital S/PDIF?
>
> : I am assuming I should use my RF demodulator between the LD player and
the
> : soundcard so that it converts the steam into something the soundcard can
> : deal with? Would it makes sense to run the stream from LD ->
demodulator ->
> : Stereo Receiver -> soundcard? Or is that just inserting another source
of
>
> Why?
>
> : potential noise and signal degradation? Is a card such as the M-Audio
> : revolution a good card to use for this purpose? Is there a better
solution
> : that doesn't exceed $150-$200? I'll check out the audio newsgroup as
well
> : to see if they have any solutions.
>
> Do you already own M-Audio revolution? I don't think you can go wrong with
> M-Audio. I would avoid SoundBlaster though.
>
> --Leonid
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
: My (limited) understanding is that the digital out carries DTS not AC-3 and

I'm not sure about LDs, and actually AC-3. All I know that if I have a DVD and
I play it on computer, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 picks up 5.1 and delivers it
to receiver. That is guaranteed. So I assume LD player should pick up AC-3, but
I maybe wrong.

: No I do not own an M-Audio Revolution at this point. A friend indicated
: that it had great analog sound so he thought it might be a good card for
: this purpose (plus I think he wanted to sell it to me cheap because it
: didn't do what he wanted it to in his Home Theater PC). The addition of the

If you're not a gamer, this should be a great card for home theater and also
for digital to digital and analog to digital recording. I'll be looking into
Terratec Aureon Universe 7.1 which is a competitor card. It has more options
than Revolution (it has optical in/out, mic in, phono in with phone pre-amp),
but I believe Revolution has better converters.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

toor@iquest.net (John S. Dyson) wrote in message news:<c7u5rt$6ip$1@news.iquest.net>...

> With the ADVC300 (with proper settings), my results when recording
> onto DV25 when using that A/D converter were BETTER than my complicated
> setup. When producing DVDs from the DV25 signal, the resulting quality
> (when using the NR in the purchased version of TMPGENC) has been
> incredible!!! (The large red areas in the Bananarama videos appear
> as rock stable as one might expect from BetaSP -- not perfect, but
> more perfect than otherwise attainable.)

What are the proper settings?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 13 May 2004 03:48:48 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>I use paid Fly2000 program to capture. ($25). It does a much better job than
>VirtualVCR.

Hmm... I tried a whole pile of capture apps, and VirtualVCR was about
the only one that didn't crash spectacularly. I don't remember if I
tried Fly2000 or not. I'll look into it -- thanks! What does it do for
you to say it "does a much better job"?

> I also use Philips native drivers and not LifeView ones.

I don't suppose you could e-mail me the Philips drivers, could you? (I
assume they're pretty small.)

I've found most of the drivers are set up for the Philips 7134 chip,
as found in the PAL-spec 3000, rather than the 7133 found in NTSC-spec
cards. I had a very frustrating time of setup as a result. What are
you running (e.g. OS, PAL vs. NTSC, etc.)?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

In article <65354389.0405130518.46190ff2@posting.google.com>,
ctnabil@spiritone.com (Aaron Nabil) writes:
> toor@iquest.net (John S. Dyson) wrote in message news:<c7u5rt$6ip$1@news.iquest.net>...
>
>> With the ADVC300 (with proper settings), my results when recording
>> onto DV25 when using that A/D converter were BETTER than my complicated
>> setup. When producing DVDs from the DV25 signal, the resulting quality
>> (when using the NR in the purchased version of TMPGENC) has been
>> incredible!!! (The large red areas in the Bananarama videos appear
>> as rock stable as one might expect from BetaSP -- not perfect, but
>> more perfect than otherwise attainable.)
>
> What are the proper settings?
>
If you are encoding a laser disk, then you'd want to use the lowest
levels of noise reduction. This cleans enough noise that DV25 doesn't
have problems. DV25 can deal with noise better than DVD MPEG2 at
full rate, but still not perfect. Later on, then encode the MPEG2
with noise reduction enabled. It is important to choose tools that
don't add motion artifacts (e.g. smearing), and that is where the
ADVC 300 works well without significant motion artfacts (at the lowest
levels of noise reduction.)

There are numerous settings, but don't set anything above the minimums.
Also, make sure that you don't use edge enhacement (that is best
deferred until later.) I haven't booted WIN2000 recently, but if
I do so in the next several days, I'll copy down the ADVC300 settings.

John

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
:>I use paid Fly2000 program to capture. ($25). It does a much better job than
:>VirtualVCR.

: Hmm... I tried a whole pile of capture apps, and VirtualVCR was about
: the only one that didn't crash spectacularly. I don't remember if I
: tried Fly2000 or not. I'll look into it -- thanks! What does it do for
: you to say it "does a much better job"?

Well, the image quality is much sharper. I captured from the same source using
FlyVideo 3000FM with Fly2000 and also with Pinnacle DV500. Fly2000 gave a bit
better job than Pinnacle. VirtualVCR was pretty close to Conexant based cards.
Maybe I didn't adjust settings, I don't know.

:> I also use Philips native drivers and not LifeView ones.

: I don't suppose you could e-mail me the Philips drivers, could you? (I
: assume they're pretty small.)

I could, but you could also down them from here as well as a trial version of
Fly2000.

http/auzol.narod.ru/

: I've found most of the drivers are set up for the Philips 7134 chip,
: as found in the PAL-spec 3000, rather than the 7133 found in NTSC-spec
: cards. I had a very frustrating time of setup as a result. What are
: you running (e.g. OS, PAL vs. NTSC, etc.)?

I'm in US so I'm NTSC. But I also capture from PAL and SECAM VHS tapes. So I
need to be multistandard.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 14 May 2004 03:21:46 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>I could, but you could also down them from here as well as a trial version of
>Fly2000.
>
>http/auzol.narod.ru/

Much obliged, Leonid.

>I'm in US so I'm NTSC. But I also capture from PAL and SECAM VHS tapes. So I
>need to be multistandard.

That's me, too, except I've got PAL LDs...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
> That's me, too, except I've got PAL LDs...

I didn't know that they had PAL in Canada!

G, you owe me an e-mail... It's been a while. :-(

-Junior

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

In article <139de3b3.0405140945.2099d1f@posting.google.com>,
watsona@kenyon.edu (unclejr) writes:
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
>> That's me, too, except I've got PAL LDs...
>
> I didn't know that they had PAL in Canada!
>
PAL capable pro monitors aren't that uncommon (even I have one,
even though not able to enjoyably watch PAL50 because of flicker.)
Often, the pro monitors have practically ALL standards decoders built
in.

With hardware as it is today, it isn't too big a deal to have
a computer capture the output of a PAL device, and then display
it on a computer monitor (modulo proper gamma settings, etc.)

John

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
:>I'm in US so I'm NTSC. But I also capture from PAL and SECAM VHS tapes. So I
:>need to be multistandard.

: That's me, too, except I've got PAL LDs...

BTW, you know that with Philips drivers you should be capturing at 704x...
and not 720x.... This card doesn't support overscan. When you go from an LD
player, I suggest going S/PDIF out to your soundcard and capture digital sound
at 44.1kHz. It seems like audio will perfectly match video.

--Leonid

 

[Rick]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

The long story short about grabbing the AC3 off of an LD is that you HAVE TO
use the RF demodulator for your (digital) soundcard to understand the
signal. At the time that the AC3 jack was being "retro-fitted" to Laserdisc
players, the technology wasn't advanced enough (or cheap enough) to fit the
RF-demod unit inside the LD player as well to convert the FM signal coming
off of the LD disc itself. Therfore the RF-demod unit was supplied as an
"extra" rather than as standard for all LD players since, but the AC3 output
jack is there on the LD player if and when the owner decides to buy the
additional RF-demod unit itself later on.

Basically, the RF-demodulator converts the AC3 jack signal off of the LD
player into exactly the same thing as what any old DVD player does through
the digital coaxial/optical cable. HOWEVER, this is NOT the same as the PCM
soundtrack (ie the digital track on your LD disc that houses the Pro-Logic
Surround soundtrack). Only a few LD players were ever fitted with a digital
PCM line-out (the same thing as a digital-out on certain CD players) so
usually you will only find a analog two-channel (L/R) output on a normal
everyday LD player to fit into any amplifier/ghettoblaster with AUX L/R
inputs.

Simplified, a PC soundcard (such as the Audigy series) has a digital input
from either a 3.5" jack or optical input, and these soundcards can accept
either an RF-demod'd AC3 signal or PCM digital-out from a suitably fitted LD
player. I'm assuming that the DTS track (which replaces the two-channel L/R
Pro-Logic soundtrack) on these enabled Laserdiscs can also be read in by
your PC's soundcard with the suitable software being run at the time.

Hope this helps. If anyone has any more queries regarding this issue, let
me know.

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:c7uvtf$jak$1@news3.bu.edu...
> CCARPENTER2 <ccarpenter2@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> : My (limited) understanding is that the digital out carries DTS not AC-3
and
>
> I'm not sure about LDs, and actually AC-3. All I know that if I have a DVD
and
> I play it on computer, my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 picks up 5.1 and
delivers it
> to receiver. That is guaranteed. So I assume LD player should pick up
AC-3, but
> I maybe wrong.
>
> : No I do not own an M-Audio Revolution at this point. A friend indicated
> : that it had great analog sound so he thought it might be a good card for
> : this purpose (plus I think he wanted to sell it to me cheap because it
> : didn't do what he wanted it to in his Home Theater PC). The addition of
the
>
> If you're not a gamer, this should be a great card for home theater and
also
> for digital to digital and analog to digital recording. I'll be looking
into
> Terratec Aureon Universe 7.1 which is a competitor card. It has more
options
> than Revolution (it has optical in/out, mic in, phono in with phone
pre-amp),
> but I believe Revolution has better converters.
>
> --Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Rick <deNOBULLlorean@dodo.com.au> wrote:
: The long story short about grabbing the AC3 off of an LD is that you HAVE TO
: use the RF demodulator for your (digital) soundcard to understand the

So basically you're saying that the signal has to go through an analog phase,
right?

: the digital coaxial/optical cable. HOWEVER, this is NOT the same as the PCM
: soundtrack (ie the digital track on your LD disc that houses the Pro-Logic
: Surround soundtrack). Only a few LD players were ever fitted with a digital
: PCM line-out (the same thing as a digital-out on certain CD players) so

So my LD player has digital coaxial audio out. I have used it to connect it to
my sound card (M-Audio series) S/PDIF in. On LD itself it says Digital Audio.
Was I doing the right thing? I think that I got it right and the digital sound
sounded better than analog.

I did the video capture feeding sound just like I described above. I captured
the sound at 44.1kHz and as a post process resampled it to 48kHz for DVD.

--Leonid

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 29 May 2004 17:08:30 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>Rick <deNOBULLlorean@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>: The long story short about grabbing the AC3 off of an LD is that you HAVE TO
>: use the RF demodulator for your (digital) soundcard to understand the
>
>So basically you're saying that the signal has to go through an analog phase,
>right?

It's on the disc as an analog signal, so yeah. It's the AC-3 RF to
AC-3 demodulator that makes the signal digital. Without the
demodulator, you've got nothing.

>So my LD player has digital coaxial audio out. I have used it to connect it to
>my sound card (M-Audio series) S/PDIF in. On LD itself it says Digital Audio.
>Was I doing the right thing? I think that I got it right and the digital sound
>sounded better than analog.

Yeah, that's right. It's not AC-3, but rather few discs have that,
anyway.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
:>my sound card (M-Audio series) S/PDIF in. On LD itself it says Digital Audio.
:>Was I doing the right thing? I think that I got it right and the digital sound
:>sounded better than analog.

: Yeah, that's right. It's not AC-3, but rather few discs have that,
: anyway.

All of mine do. Actually I just noticed. Some of my LDs say Digital Audio. Some
others Digital Sound. What's the difference?

--Leonid