Ballmer: Computer Scientists Needed to Use Android

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amk-aka-Phantom

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[citation][nom]Den12934[/nom]Your argument that people should keep up with technology will land on its face if I asked you to find the 2nd or 3rd root of a number like 7 to 8 correct decimal places or find the sine or cosine of 19 degrees because you sir, have relied on calculators and computers to derive the answers to these problems. Very few know how to solve these by the using paper, pencil, and the BRAIN. Technology does have its benefits, but also makes us very dependent on it.[/citation]

And you know what? People who can't solve such problems on paper can't deal with tech, either! His argument was that BRAIN is required to use technology. If you're good with tech, you'll be good with sciences, and vice versa, because both are built around logic.
 

amk-aka-Phantom

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[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]take this, in xp i can right click on 6 explorer windows i have open, and tell it to tile horizontally. in win 7 i cant do that... i hate how things i grew use to, change, for no good reason, but for change sake and to appear "simpler"[/citation]

BS! Take a look:







Really, your Windows 7 hate has no base whatsoever. I can't even tell which OS I'm using, normally... well, except the fact that Win7 usually has way less driver problems and LAN witchcraft (XP won't let you exceed 10 Mbps if the network has no Internet access and it takes forever to connect)
 
G

Guest

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HAHAHAHAHA! I AM A COMPUTER SCIENTIST!

Do I get a Certificate and where is my Pay Rise MS!

Windows Phone 7 - After extensive use of a Samsung and HTC Win 7 phone ( several days on each) as well as iPhone 4, I can honestly say the HTC sensation with Gingerbread is the easiest to use whilst being the most powerful and customizable OS on the market. WAY TO FAIL STEVE!
 

Specter0420

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[citation][nom]soo-nah-mee[/nom]I really like my WP7, but I only got it because I got a new phone off contract for $100.Android is awesome. It's not hard to use. Okay, it may not be quite as intuitive as a Windows phone (or iOS for that matter, but it is far more versatile and fun to use IMO.ICS is the SHIT.[/citation]
I got two HD7's for free (with contracts) last valentines day. I love racing all my friends in doing various tasks and stomping their dual core phones, like taking a pic and uploading it to facebook, etc. It is just because their are less steps involved and a lot of stuff is built in to the OS but it is still funny watching them get mad. Balmer should have added "compared to Windows Phone 7" and it wouldn't be outrageous.
 

cmartin011

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Lmao, so is he trying to say the human race is demanding dumbed down devices because were stupid? or are we really just to lazy to take a day to get used to something...
 

goodsyntax

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@WhysoBluepandabear and @amk-aka-phantom

Staying abreast with the changes in tech is a matter of priority. Staying current costs a lot of coin! With the rapid pace of innovation in the tech sector, something that was cutting edge just a few years ago is a worthless, obsolete relic today. Tech fads come and fizzle just as quick (ahem, WebOS and HP TouchPad). To stay ahead of what's happening in technology costs thousands of dollars a year - and all that provides is simply a taste of what's "current."

So, this "older generation," who probably have a career to worry about, bills to pay, kids to run to practices and college educations to pay for, have chosen to invest their time in their families instead of tech.

Why should someone feel obligated to purchase an iPhone 4S, an Intel Core i7, iPads, Windows 7, OS X Lion, or whatever the latest tech fad may be - just because its new? Should they have to choose between current tech and putting food on the table, clothes on your back, a roof over your head and a college education. The simple answer is NO, your parents have chosen to put YOUR well being over tech, which is they way it should be.

Instead of the tech-snobbery you are exuding, you should thank your parents for their hard work in providing you the ability to stay current with tech, which may have come at their own expense, considering that they may or may not be tech savvy.

Just because someone doesn't know how to tile windows using Windows 7 doesn't mean they are retarded, it just means that they have not put a priority to learning all the ins-and-outs in an operating system that will be replaced in a few years. Technology is a tool, much like a hammer or wrench, that can make your life easier. There are those that prefer to do things the old fashioned way, AKA - paper and pencil. While that method may not be the most efficient, it is still effective and in all honesty is the basis that technologies attempt to automate.

Frankly, there are so many other things in life that are more important than "cutting edge." Maybe, you should get some perspective before spouting off and demeaning those that are less tech savvy than you. I suspect that many of those "older generation" folk can balance a checkbook, create a family budget, change the oil in their car themselves and manage life perfectly fine without the latest tech toy.

Perspective and priorities...
 

hoof_hearted

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I like Baldmer. He is kind of a funny looking and sounding guy. Can't blame a guy for trying to take advantage of the "old timer" mentality.

Still can't wait to upgrade my jailbroken iPhone 3GS to an Galaxy Nexus GSM unlocked once it makes its way to the US and plpo my simcard into it. Will be well worth the $600 or so.

I also wonder if anyone makes a full size keyboard/screen/trackpad that works with it. Kind of like a brainless laptop, just insert smartphone.

And I agree with most of the OS simple to use talking points. I think the only things that "confuse" nowadays are preloaded bloatware (usually spouts off technical mumbo jumbo to try to "scare" users into purchasing), viruses, virus scanners, and all those sorts of crap. Even old windows XP, when I "clean up" (slick it then disable all the stupid stuff) friends and relatives computers, they think it is easy and a joy to use. Problem is after time, they crap it up again buy buying into the crap that comes from friends emails and the internet.

Baldmer must still think users (not us computer scientists) still need animated dogs to wink at us when we try to search then disable them. Most users probably still need a "clippy" character to explain how to use Word. Maybe there will be a Rovion with a Baldmer character on WP8.

Granted, they improved with Windows 7 and they dominate the desktop market now, but if they go back to those old ways of "lets dumb things down for the stupid users", it is clear to see them losing in the smartphone market. People are much more tech savy nowadays.

The problem with older people is that they saw the era where computers were insanely expensive and you better not do something wrong or you will mess up this "expensive" thing. That created alot of fear. Nowadays, tech is so cheap, there is no real consequence to experimenting.
 

coldmast

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So if I use Android, I will official be recognized as a computer scientist by Microsoft. So what is that the equivalent to: MCTS, MCITP, or MCM; can you seed me one of these in the mail? Or do I get a new designation like MCCS?
 

goodsyntax

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I kind of knew that you would fire back with pointless drivel, and as much as I hate feeding trolls, I'll take the bait.

Those people that you would prefer self-destruct probably know infinitely more than you do about many other subjects. This world isn't simply just about tech gadgets. Many of these folks are accountants, stock brokers, doctors, nurses, firefighters, mechanics, etc. So while you willingly denigrate their intellect, which is obviously infinitely inferior to yours, considering that you clearly know everything about every subject in the history of mankind, they save lives, fix cars, prepare tax returns, help corporations manage cashflow and generally keep our economy moving, you would rather they instead focus their attention on playing with Android ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich - but you already know all about that).

So for those poor bastards who work two full-time jobs to make sure that their children can get a college education and have access to opportunities that were not available to them, you instead would prefer that they play with OS X Lion because that is clearly more important.

And I'm not entirely sure how you have gone about learning the internals of Android and every other operating system without physical access, but again, clearly you are blessed with exceptional intelligence and can see a product in a store and instantly know everything about it.

There is a marked difference between knowing what device has better specs and how to operate, manage and tune a device. Anyone can read basic specs and everyone has opinions about what is the "best" in a given market segment. Have you ever had to diagnose a stack overflow exception, a null pointer reference, thread collisions/race conditions, winsock errors and they myriad of other issues that the programmers behind those cute devices deal with every day.

Maybe you should reign in your arrogance and realize that for a mechanic, the correct tools for them are made by Snap-On, not Apple. I know the day is still young, but by chance, have you removed a tumor from a 12 year old kid, negotiated a $12 Billion buyout of an enterprise software company that employs 17,000 people, put out a fire that saved a family, arrested a criminal that was robbing gas stations - or has your day been spent online determining whether the AMD Bulldozer CPU has better Crysis framerates than an Intel Core i5 2500K?

Now that I have added some perspective, I hope you see just how silly your comments have been.
 

amk-aka-Phantom

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[citation][nom]goodsyntax[/nom]I kind of knew that you would fire back with pointless drivel, and as much as I hate feeding trolls, I'll take the bait.Those people that you would prefer self-destruct probably know infinitely more than you do about many other subjects. This world isn't simply just about tech gadgets. Many of these folks are accountants, stock brokers, doctors, nurses, firefighters, mechanics, etc. So while you willingly denigrate their intellect, which is obviously infinitely inferior to yours, considering that you clearly know everything about every subject in the history of mankind, they save lives, fix cars, prepare tax returns, help corporations manage cashflow and generally keep our economy moving, you would rather they instead focus their attention on playing with Android ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich - but you already know all about that).So for those poor bastards who work two full-time jobs to make sure that their children can get a college education and have access to opportunities that were not available to them, you instead would prefer that they play with OS X Lion because that is clearly more important.And I'm not entirely sure how you have gone about learning the internals of Android and every other operating system without physical access, but again, clearly you are blessed with exceptional intelligence and can see a product in a store and instantly know everything about it.There is a marked difference between knowing what device has better specs and how to operate, manage and tune a device. Anyone can read basic specs and everyone has opinions about what is the "best" in a given market segment. Have you ever had to diagnose a stack overflow exception, a null pointer reference, thread collisions/race conditions, winsock errors and they myriad of other issues that the programmers behind those cute devices deal with every day.Maybe you should reign in your arrogance and realize that for a mechanic, the correct tools for them are made by Snap-On, not Apple. I know the day is still young, but by chance, have you removed a tumor from a 12 year old kid, negotiated a $12 Billion buyout of an enterprise software company that employs 17,000 people, put out a fire that saved a family, arrested a criminal that was robbing gas stations - or has your day been spent online determining whether the AMD Bulldozer CPU has better Crysis framerates than an Intel Core i5 2500K? Now that I have added some perspective, I hope you see just how silly your comments have been.[/citation]

No, I do NOT see it. You completely missed my point - keeping up with recent tech is easy. Yes, I do spend my day online checking benchmarks and hardware news; it's part of my job. Even then, I keep up with innovations in EVERY area of life that relates to me and that I use. It takes no effort and the benefits far outweigh the time spent. Whatever I use, I try to know as much as I can about and it helps a LOT. I refuse to spend my life overworking myself for someone else's sake when there's something I can learn and use for my own. I do my job as good as I can, and my customers are happy - but in the end of the day, I will NOT sacrifice my happiness for anyone else's.

Your perspective is warped. Look here:

So for those poor bastards who work two full-time jobs to make sure that their children can get a college education and have access to opportunities that were not available to them
THIS is the problem. WTF are these morons doing burning their lives for the sake of their children? Instead, they should pursue something THEY missed in life!

And I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Apple products. I hate them.
 

alidan

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[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]BS! Take a look:
Really, your Windows 7 hate has no base whatsoever. I can't even tell which OS I'm using, normally... well, except the fact that Win7 usually has way less driver problems and LAN witchcraft (XP won't let you exceed 10 Mbps if the network has no Internet access and it takes forever to connect)[/citation]

i just looked that up on the laptop and little brothers pc, because there is no way in hell i missed 2 options that easy.

they arent there by default, and not being able to customize it at all, as they arent my computers to play with, i cant see how easy/hard that is to do, but that was one of my many gripes about 7, if i knew i could get it working the way i want it to, i would get it a new motherboard and 16gb or ram tonight.

that said, is there a way to get a more xp like taskbar. where i have lets say 4 programs in the bar, and than they start in windows on the side, not on the icon, you have no idea how much that annoys me. i mean those are my 2 biggest i cant live with this gripes.
 

alidan

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[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]You are completely full of $h!T!!! It does NOT take money to learn about new tech. I don't have to buy an Android device to know what has the best specs today. I never fully built a PC before yet easily selected the best components available for the price. And I'm SICK of hearing the same bull$h!t about "kids, family and bills" - if your lifestyle doesn't let you learn new things, do us a favor and self-destruct! What the hell was the point of living a life: growing up, studying, working - just so that you can end up with "family, kids and bills", unable to learn anything new? Huh? Do you have any self-respect? Any egoism? Any? Do you value YOUR life? Your learning? Not your kids', family's or whoever's, but YOURS? In other words, go think if your life is even worth it!And the guy who couldn't tile the windows - alidan - well, he's a bad example. He's tech-savvy, he's just a Win7 hater Technology is a tool, like a hammer, but if you can't use a hammer, you'll end up hitting your own fingers.[/citation]

i have built computers before, and honestly suggest it for everyone, aside from the cpu and the cpu heat sync, its hard to screw up, fun, and cheaper than having someone else do it. but lets get more to the point the person you are responding to has to make.

lets go pre dual core cpus.

computers really did go obsolete FAST back than, mainly because of a fast paced and evolving tech, i had a pentium 2 333mhz, than went to a p4 prescot 530 (3ghz ht) and in all honesty, after about a year with the pentium 2 and 2 years with the p4 i felt the term obsolete kicking in, as i couldn't do things that i wanted to do. currently i'm on a phenom II 955 black. if you are on a dual core, there are certain aspects you will feel lacking in, but a good gpu can make up for it, such as video playback, with a 3 core, again the major thing would be 1080p video play back problems, but at a quad core level, i'm not sure you even need a video card to play that. until the standard goes up again, and i doubt it will any time soon, a quad core can do damn near everything, and will most likely be the cornerstone for this and my little brothers build for 4 more years. basically computers of today aren't like computers of 5 - 8 years ago, where they did become useless, today, they are more than fast enough its one of the reasons that i haven't thrown bulldozer under the bus and completely dismissed the future possibilities

with phones however, he has more of a point, because they are rapidly growing tech, and for a while, there were options that seamed like sure bets that failed to pay off, like the hp os, and the nokia os, and they are basically dead, and this is what within a 2 year time frame for a piece of equipment that cost 600+$. the only good thing i can say in the cellphone area is there are 2 viable oses, and one that wont die even if it sells poorly (android, ios and windows respectively) if you get an ios device, prepare for it to be old tech in 2 gens, and have to deal with the asinine way you update os on it. and android is a crapshoot if the phone will be good or not. we arent to the point yet where the cpu in the phone makes up for everything yet, its why ios in a closed environment preforms better than a more powerful android much of the time. in all honesty, with smartphone i don't need one, but want one for certain aspects, and will not get one till the tech in them evens out quite a bit more, as in wont be obsolete in 2-3 years, in this way, cellphones are in the same realm os pcs 10 years ago, tech wise on their longevity.
 

goodsyntax

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[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]No, I do NOT see it. You completely missed my point - keeping up with recent tech is easy. Yes, I do spend my day online checking benchmarks and hardware news; it's part of my job. Even then, I keep up with innovations in EVERY area of life that relates to me and that I use. It takes no effort and the benefits far outweigh the time spent. Whatever I use, I try to know as much as I can about and it helps a LOT. I refuse to spend my life overworking myself for someone else's sake when there's something I can learn and use for my own. I do my job as good as I can, and my customers are happy - but in the end of the day, I will NOT sacrifice my happiness for anyone else's.[/citation]

Clearly, you are missing MY point. For a mechanic, keeping up with the latest Technical Service Bulletins, advances in engine management, changes to emissions control, updates to manufacturer repair guidance is a part of THEIR job. Their job does not include having to stay on top of the latest computer hardware, when the SQL Server Denali CTE will be released, whether the B3 stepping of Bulldozer will improve AMD's single threaded performance. They ARE doing more to enrich themselves and their job by learning about new tools, techniques, etc. that help them do their job more effectively. Microsoft, Apple, Intel, AMD, Asus et. all, simply have no relevance in their livelihood - and so, they do not spend time learning about things which have little or no significance for them. These folks call the help desk or Microsoft Support, because that is a better use of their time than researching new zero day attacks.

So, as you were saying, you keep up with innovations that relate to you and what you use....well so do others, they just don't have the same priorities as you. I'm certain that you do not stay on top up all the new drug clinical trials, changes to tax law, corporate impact of S-Ox and HIPAA, generation 5 nuclear reactor designs, microfluidic circuits, genetically modified foods and the myriad of other things that directly or indirectly contribute to every day life. Chances are, you probably couldn't rebuild an engine, yet you drive a car, you probably couldn't explain the physics behind nuclear power generation, yet you use electricity, and you probably can't write a program in assembler or C++, yet you use a computer. You read about things that are important to you and/or your job. Just because you know more about tech that others does not make you better than them, just as a master carpenter who knows more about wood working does not make him better than you.

[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]
WTF are these morons doing burning their lives for the sake of their children? Instead, they should pursue something THEY missed in life![/citation]

Frankly, those "morons" are busting their ass because they did not have access to an education, could not reach for that cushy CEO job, and instead make money through sweat equity. Those "morons" realize that there is more in the world that having to work hard for menial pay and so are trying to give their children the opportunity to attain that cushy CEO position. It's called self-sacrifice and if you had children, you would understand their motivation.

It's shocking how self-centered and self-righteous you are! You truly believe that you are so much better than most others. I have consolidated a few points that you have written, for your viewing pleasure. Maybe, you should review these and realize just how arrogant, demeaning and immoral they appear to others.

[citation][nom]amk-aka-phantom[/nom]
And I'm SICK of hearing the same bull$h!t about "kids, family and bills" - if your lifestyle doesn't let you learn new things, do us a favor and self-destruct!

In other words, go think if your life is even worth it!

I refuse to spend my life overworking myself for someone else's sake when there's something I can learn and use for my own

I will NOT sacrifice my happiness for anyone else's.
[/citation]
 

amk-aka-Phantom

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[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]i just looked that up on the laptop and little brothers pc, because there is no way in hell i missed 2 options that easy. they arent there by default, and not being able to customize it at all, as they arent my computers to play with, i cant see how easy/hard that is to do, but that was one of my many gripes about 7, if i knew i could get it working the way i want it to, i would get it a new motherboard and 16gb or ram tonight.that said, is there a way to get a more xp like taskbar. where i have lets say 4 programs in the bar, and than they start in windows on the side, not on the icon, you have no idea how much that annoys me. i mean those are my 2 biggest i cant live with this gripes.[/citation]

As you can see on the screens, I made my taskbar as XP-like as I could, but the only thing I could NOT change is make the programs to start on the side and not in the middle of the Quick Launch. It annoyed me at first, but now I don't care anymore. As long as it's not the huge stupid default taskbar with icons instead of open windows' bars, I'm fine :)
 

amk-aka-Phantom

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[citation][nom]reynod[/nom]Lets try to be a bit more civil please?[/citation]

Sure. Just one last thing...

[citation][nom]goodsyntax[/nom]Clearly, you are missing MY point. For a mechanic, keeping up with the latest Technical Service Bulletins, advances in engine management, changes to emissions control, updates to manufacturer repair guidance is a part of THEIR job. Their job does not include having to stay on top of the latest computer hardware, when the SQL Server Denali CTE will be released, whether the B3 stepping of Bulldozer will improve AMD's single threaded performance. They ARE doing more to enrich themselves and their job by learning about new tools, techniques, etc. that help them do their job more effectively. Microsoft, Apple, Intel, AMD, Asus et. all, simply have no relevance in their livelihood - and so, they do not spend time learning about things which have little or no significance for them. These folks call the help desk or Microsoft Support, because that is a better use of their time than researching new zero day attacks.So, as you were saying, you keep up with innovations that relate to you and what you use....well so do others, they just don't have the same priorities as you. I'm certain that you do not stay on top up all the new drug clinical trials, changes to tax law, corporate impact of S-Ox and HIPAA, generation 5 nuclear reactor designs, microfluidic circuits, genetically modified foods and the myriad of other things that directly or indirectly contribute to every day life. Chances are, you probably couldn't rebuild an engine, yet you drive a car, you probably couldn't explain the physics behind nuclear power generation, yet you use electricity, and you probably can't write a program in assembler or C++, yet you use a computer. You read about things that are important to you and/or your job. Just because you know more about tech that others does not make you better than them, just as a master carpenter who knows more about wood working does not make him better than you.Frankly, those "morons" are busting their ass because they did not have access to an education, could not reach for that cushy CEO job, and instead make money through sweat equity. Those "morons" realize that there is more in the world that having to work hard for menial pay and so are trying to give their children the opportunity to attain that cushy CEO position. It's called self-sacrifice and if you had children, you would understand their motivation.It's shocking how self-centered and self-righteous you are! You truly believe that you are so much better than most others. I have consolidated a few points that you have written, for your viewing pleasure. Maybe, you should review these and realize just how arrogant, demeaning and immoral they appear to others.[/citation]

Gathering knowledge advances intelligence in general and I try to keep up with as much as I can. I can program in C and Java (C++ is next on my list) and I will keep learning as much as I can about computers if I am to work efficiently with them. I can explain physics behind pretty much every electricity generation method known, and if I don't know it, I will look it up, because I like to learn and understand. I drive a bike, not a car, and I CAN repair its engine if needed. I won't do it most of the time, because there're people who can do it better than me, but the knowledge is too precious to ignore. The more you know, the easier and the more efficient your life becomes.

You say these folks call help desk of MS - well, had they been a bit more willing to learn, they'd spend half the time and maintain their PC by themselves!

It's shocking how self-centered and self-righteous you are! You truly believe that you are so much better than most others. I have consolidated a few points that you have written, for your viewing pleasure. Maybe, you should review these and realize just how arrogant, demeaning and immoral they appear to others.
Oh yes, indeed! If you still haven't realized, selfishness IS the greatest virtue in the world. All people who have created something useful were selfish and disregarded what the world thought of their work, thus managed to achieve success. I suggest reading this. It will explain better than I ever can. Just prepare for extreme butthurt if the book does manage to open your eyes :)

Do you really think that self-sacrifice is the ultimate goal of your life? And that then your kids should do the same, and the cycle should go on? How long? When will the people realize the value of their OWN lives and start living for themselves? That doesn't mean you can't have kids or pay for their education. Just don't make it hurt YOUR life and take away from it.

Just because you know more about tech that others does not make you better than them, just as a master carpenter who knows more about wood working does not make him better than you.
Yes, it does make him better than me in his area, and I'd be a fool to deny it. If, however, I would require a carpenter's services, I would do a thorough research to see who will do the job best. In fact, that's what I just did and I'm very happy with the result.

They ARE doing more to enrich themselves and their job by learning about new tools, techniques, etc. that help them do their job more effectively.
This is a lie. Most of the people I've seen don't do anything to expand their knowledge. In fact, most don't even work where they'd like to. And there's no excuse for it. All they do is work, come home, watch TV, pay their bills and call it self-sacrifice. Is it worth it? Of course not, since they're not doing anything for themselves. But they like to pretend that it IS worth it. Just the way loyal Apple customers will defend their allegedly superior product till their dying breath, because they've been ripped off, they know it and they're trying to justify their mistake. Or - or they don't see it at all and then they're genuinely sure the money they paid is worth it.

Don't do this mistake. Live for yourself while you still can.
 
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