ssddx :
@anwaypasible
the reason why the price for the head gasket price at a shop differs from what you paid is for quite a few reasons. lets not factor in the actual gasket prices since you both would have that expense.
-shop labor is $60 to $80 an hour, your labor was free
-shops have to have insurance in case your car fails because of their work, you dont.
-shops have a bunch of overhead expenses, you dont
-shops are working to make a profit, you arent.
so if you asked do shops overcharge you? then my answer would be sometimes yes sometimes no. small shops are usually more reasonable but they still HAVE to charge you more than it would cost to do it yourself. large dealerships and other shady shops DO overcharge you by about 4-6x what its work because they can get away with it.
.... also
you cannot compare $300-400ea speakers with a set of 5 speakers i bought for only $550. sure maybe they do sound better than my klipsch's, which do sound great, but you're talking about 5-6x the budget which isn't a comparison at all.
----
as far as speakers are concerned, in general, the lower the price point the worse they will sound (with a few anomolies). you cant compare a $50 with a $100 system, or a $200 with a $400 system.
just find a system that sounds good to you, and be happy. what i like is not what others like. i already recommended a few things, but in general its up to the end user to decide exactly what to buy.
i enjoy how the shop works, because i believe in their expenses.
it is absolutely true.. if they damage the engine (or encounter some problem) then the engine would need to be replaced.
could be the block because of a severe 'do it yourself' removal of a bolt.
could be the heads that wouldnt come off, or was otherwise damaged beyond repair.
things like severe scratches to the surface is one reason these things need to be replaced.
not all engines can have something fall onto them and expect the seal to stay sealed.
minor gouges with a razer are generally not important.. but if a support beam fell and slammed into the metal and caused a 1/16th of an inch gash, then yes .. that is what insurance is for.
if they take the thing apart and the block is severely warped, that is the condition of your engine.. your property, meaning the problem is yours as it was discovered.
warped heads might be because they took them off wrong (used the wrong untightening sequence)
and usually the insurance of the engine can be all that is paid by the customer, and if the shop has experience and knows how to fix minor problems for little money.. then whatever is left is profit.
that accounts for buying things wholesale.. like instead of buying gallons of oil, they buy a drum of it.
and instead of buying antifreeze by the gallon.. again the drum.
hourly rates can be allured to an equation of what the average price of an engine is.
if the shop can get engines cheap, then it is a fair market price.
charging extra per hour is usually just stupidity from the customer, unless there is a known reason to pay a 'premium' price.
the points listed are well said, and they apply to anything pre-built or already done for you.
and i strongly believe you are on to something about $300 - $400 per speaker set, being not comparible to a 5 speaker set for the same price.
but
the beauty of it is, you see ONE midrange for like $30 on sale.
then you grab two tweeters for like $40 each
and the actual woofers to give them some bass is going to cost however much for the amount of bass you want.
a good 12 inch woofer costs about $80 each
the total here is $300
then you need two 3-way crossovers.. and you can find these wherever for different prices.
i got a pair of cerwin vega crossovers on ebay for like $40
brings the cost to $340
then you need some wood to build the cabinets.. and a sheet of MDF costs about $50
brings the cost to $390
glue is questionable since people have different choices.. but say $15
brings the cost to $405 + screws = $410
these speakers will play well into the 20hz area for $410 without a need for a subwoofer.
if you want two more for the rear, the cost would obviously be $820
the center channel would be two midranges for $30 each
the cost for the tweeter would be about $40
and the crossover would be about $20
another $120
bringing the cost to $940 if there is enough wood for the center channel
but
you could find wood in the trash and save on the cost of wood (not always a bunch of wood in the trash though, could take a month or two to find with the free time to look)
about $1,000 to build a set yourself.
but
lets consider the cost of the stereo pair of speakers.. $410
the real joy is to hear how good the speakers sound compared to other speakers in the same price category.
i cant help myself but to say that the sound should rival stereo speakers that cost up to $1,500
so when you save yourself another $1,100 .. what is the shame in that?
it makes it fun to compare the speakers you built with other speakers that cost twice as much (or even 3x as much)
because then.. when you want another improvement in sound quality, you will at least buy the speakers to put into the speaker cabinet (or sell the old ones and build new cabinets).
you'll be spending again, and for the speaker manufacturers who know the real price it cost to make the speaker and store it in a warehouse until it is sold... they are going to make a profit the first time you buy, and they will make a profit the second time you buy.
because the first time, you aimed at the $1,500 market of speakers.
the second time.. well you would probably be aiming at the $5,000 market of stereo speakers.
with some time and WANT.. the speaker manufacturers will bring out more speakers that sound even better.
or
you re-build your listening room for a different type of listening.
there is no 'so' in my book.
i know that the original poster doesnt have $410 for a stereo pair of speakers.
because even then, you need a receiver to power them = another $400 - $700
but realize that if you are an audio enthusiast, you might already have parts laying around.
and you dont need to put these midranges and tweeters into a cabinet to enjoy them.
$60 for the midranges.. $80 for the tweeters.. use a crossover you already have (or grab a pair off ebay for $20)
wire them up and you are done for $160
throw in the subwoofer you have owned for the last 8 years and you got some bass.
still need an amp for the midranges though.. and you can buy something used.
however, these prices are for some of the best speakers that the store offers.
you can always go down into the $10 - $20 category and get sound that is better than the PC speakers.
two midranges for $30
two tweeters for $20
one pair of crossovers for $20
that is $70 with no box (just lay 'em sideways and enjoy)
the other $130 for an amp.
that is no bass and an improvement in clarity.
since most people have a job and the money keeps coming back.. you could build something 'stupid' like this and buy the rest of the pieces a few months down the road.
it would at least be functional and sound better for the vocals and treble until you get something for the bass.
using the amp until you save up for a receiver, then sell the amp.
i know, these prices are high and the system isnt even finished totally.
but the problem you ask?
people dont even buy ONE speaker for $30 while it is on sale and hook it up the their radio to see if there is any reason why the speaker is even there for sale in the first place.
do you think it is a cheap replacement speaker?
because i just told you how one set of speakers is about $400
consider the many people who buy 'bookshelf' speakers for no more than $300
i think it is like saying no to food that you havent smelled or tasted before.. you just look at it and say no.
okay.. so maybe i am being too hard on people?
because i dont think waiting for the speaker to go on sale is too much to ask when you only buy one.
the speaker ad says 'characterized by their very open and rich sound' .. blah blah blah, they say the speaker isnt junk or trash.. but actually a piece of candy for an audiophile.
i let somebody borrow one of them peerless speakers and i havent seen it back in 2 years.
if it was worse than nothing at all, then i probably would have gotten it back.
i apologize for informing people that the bang for the buck audiophile is forced to build their own speakers piece by piece.
but i am glad they do it because people who dont care about the quality of their audio are sure to argue about something else in the future.
so it is an easy way to simply avoid these types of people.
i mean c'mon.. seriously
if you need a car and find a carcass in the junkyard with a blown engine.. you could probably get the car without the engine for $1,000
and you can find a freshly rebuilt engine for $1,000 (or less locally if you ask around or know where to go)
that gives you a car for $2,000
and the car doesnt have to have any dents or rust (maybe some minor rust because the car is 8 years old)
but
if you went to a car dealership.. they would probably ask at least $3,500 for something as dependable as the one you just built.
again with saving $1,500
maybe we should start by telling people their price they are willing to spend is too low.. and if they want 'best' sound to continue trying the alternatives.
maybe you can go to the junkyard and find some aftermarket speakers in the door panels.. those are usually two way.
put them in a cardboard box with a hole cut out for the speaker and they will probably sound better (or just as good) as the PC speakers without a subwoofer.
there is only one thing.. anybody who cares about audio should always have an amp to drive the speakers.
it could be your testing tool, or your foundation for a hobby.
like.. all remote controlled vehicle people, all of them are supposed to have a controller.
doesnt matter if they enjoy trucks or cars or buggys or helicopters or planes.. they are supposed to have a controller.
why do people never listen to the speakers available for demo at the stores?
and when they do.. why do they come here and ask for something better as if it exists?
the 'premium' speakers for PC are so stupid with their 8 watts per channel.
those things are ment for people who want to listen to some music while sitting down for breakfast eating some toast.
and if the food was crunchy, you wouldnt hear the speakers over the sound in your mouth.
okay okay okay.. so people who CARE are expected to listen to the junk and know which one sounds best.
my bad.
the blind leading the blind is something i try to avoid.
and i thank you for giving me the opportunity to put a closing statement to a thread where i have once again suggested something in relation to the word 'best'
if you worked at mcdonalds and seen a lot of people buying the 99 cent chicken sandwhich that actually makes you MORE hungry when you are done eating it.. would you be scared by stupidity?
or
if you see the same person come in twice a week.. would you be scared about all of the money that person pours down the drain?
i am not trying to be difficult.. as i have already said, buy the $30 speaker and see what all of the fuss is about.
i know it is supposed to get you hooked into wanting to finish the project.
kinda like how 'buy 3 tires and get 1 free' is supposed to make you want to get 4 tires when you only need 1.
so if you only need the speakers to play audio.. why cant you go to the local store and grab the cheapest ones on the shelf?
do you think about how much power the amplifier is and how loud they are?
what about how much bass they can put out?
these are the top two questions of the millions of people SEARCHING.
i say if you are searching, you shouldnt give up.. and continue finding the answers since you already started the upgrade process.
because you know what happens? ... you get a big sticker in your face saying 500 watt subwoofer, and the subwoofer stops playing at 35hz
a frequency that a WOOFER should be playing.
i think we all know now that a subwoofer is supposed to play lower than the other speakers.
but the industry keeps making subwoofers play higher and HIGHER.
sales and marketing have nothing to do with the value of the item you get with your money.
making me think i am a salesman that wants to show people how to start talking about things like 'best for $200'
and i am not going to leave this post empty-handed.
another forum thread was talking about wireless headsets.
there was a 'turtle beach' wireless headset that has 7.1 dolby digital audio (but no DTS apparently)
the thing has a bass boost of +9dB from 20hz - 150hz
and the thing had a price tag of like $150
i only wish i heard if the speakers were clear or not.. because i would have pointed the original poster to some headphones to get that person as far away from the junk as possible.
the television industry tried to do this, and what did they forget to do?
they got people far away from the big heavy televisions with the bent convergence.. but they didnt care to tell people which ones will break in a year and which ones wont.
now isnt that the same type of answer you would expect on a forum?
if the speakers are 3 years old.. they probably are not for sale anymore.
and if the person says 'i have only had them for about 1 year' ... then you dont know if they are going to break next year.
you get out of a situation what you put into it.
sometimes people have to PAY for such good advice, and this person didnt show any background information at all.
the internet is already charging people to meet new friends or find a 'buddy'
you just cant find a 'buddy' without paying for the chance to speak.
otherwise, people already have friends that live in the same town.. and they go on and on about their business without ever seeing how hard it is for the lonely people.
$200 can be a lot of money.. so there is no point going on and on about how easily that money can be wasted?
the original poster came to the forum and had to ask, and i think those of us who usually respond to the questions also have to ask.. because we dont want anything to do with the low quality.
and what about all of the websites that do hardware reviews?
why are we getting these questions when the person could read the reviews for themselves?
are we supposed to be more knowledgable or just more honest?
because if we are more honest.. how should we be expected to have listened to the speakers?
gathering up that much information takes a lot of time and energy.
after listening to three or four different PC speakers at the stores, i think we stop listening because we dont like what we hear.
kinda like avoiding a group of people because you dont like what they do for fun.
maybe the major problem here is..
not enough people talking about how small the differences are between all of the readily available PC speakers.
then we could answer with.. $80 or $200 doesnt matter, they all sound the same.. none of them is going to make you say wow.
there was some mention about speakers that are designed to make the person say wow.. but they are extremely limited with their bass and output levels.
nothing like tasting the best thing you have ever tasted in your whole entire life.. and it was only the size of a quarter in your hand.. and there isnt anymore for you to eat.
it is a TEASE.
and that means they are taunting us.
and that means they are torturing us.
but i enjoy talking on this forum.. so i will strongly agree with what was said in the quoted post:
BE HAPPY