Solved! can you run a 3ohm infinity 6.5 speaker in paralell with a 4 ohm cadence 5x7 speaker with a 2 channel 2 ohm stable amp?

[unfknbvlbl]

I have 2 3 ohm infinity component speakers and 2 4ohm cadence 5x7 co axles and 2 Ds18 6.5 inch mid range loudspeakers that are 4 ohm. And I want to run them all with a 4 channel Rockford Fosgate 200a (old school) amp. How can I wire them without damaging anything and getting the most out of the amp. Right now I have the 2 loudspeakers on 1 channel and the other 4 on the other channel, wired in parallel. Is this Ok?

 

[jsmithepa]

The RF can take a lot but you are pushing it by the numbers.

I had a 4x25w receiver + 4x25 RF outboard, and I used 2 of the RF to power my Fronts, remaining 2 RF bridged to power the sub, used 2 channels of out the receiver to power the tweets, and the remaining 2 of the receiver to the Rears.

 

[americanaudiophile]

http/physics.bu.edu/py106/notes/Circuits.html

 

[unfknbvlbl]

So I actually have a 4 channel 200a Rockford amp and 3 RCA outputs on the head unit. So should i wire the 5x7 co axles with the 6.5 mid range loudspeaker in parallel on the rear channel of the amp, since they are both 4 ohm, and the other 6.5 component on the front channel since they are 3ohm, and run the 4 tweeters with the high output speaker leads off the head unit?

 

[jdlech]

I would guess your current configuration is not good for the amp.
But running both sets in parallel, as you want, will bring the total load down to 2 ohms per channel. Which is the minimum load your amp can handle.

However, we're missing something here. Are you planning on hooking tweeters and midranges directly up to your amp? With no crossover?

 

[unfknbvlbl]

I would guess your current configuration is not good for the amp.
But running both sets in parallel, as you want, will bring the total load down to 2 ohms per channel. Which is the minimum load your amp can handle.

However, we're missing something here. Are you planning on hooking tweeters and midranges directly up to your amp? With no crossover?

I have a crossover for the infinity component speakers , which are wired by themselves on the front channel of the RF amp and they are 3 ohm, then I have the two midrange loudspeaker , 2 bullet tweeters w/capacitor crossover attached to it, and the 2 6x8 coaxles wired to the rear channel of the RF amp all which are 4 ohm. I am purchasing a hifonics zues 1000 watt 4 channel amp to replace the RF which is also 2 ohm stable. Would I be better off wiring a couple of the speakers to the high level output of the headunit or should I keep the RF too and wire a couple of speakers through it? or whats the best solution?

 

[jdlech]

OK, I looked at the amp you're buying and see that it has a basic lowpass/highpass filter on it.
What I recommend is that you think of the combination 5x7+mid+tweeter as a set. You should want them to remain as a set regardless of which amp you hook them to. I assume you mean you have 2 of each driver (one for each channel).

Now, I recommend you get a 3 way crossover for this set. This will provide better impedance matching and better utilize both amps. Which is also something I recommend - using both amps. Any 3 way Xover rated at least 500W and 4 ohm impedance should work. Not knowing the exact specs on all three drivers makes any crossover frequency recommendation a complete crap shoot.
My second recommendation is that you hook your Infinitys to one amp and your other sets to the other amp. This avoids all problems with power distribution and impedance.

I do not recommend breaking up the set. One problem with using the high pass filter on your amp to drive just the mids and tweeters is that leaves all the woofers for your Rockford amp. And that drops the total load pretty low. It will run hot and might even shut down on you at high volumes. You could run them in series with your Infinity speakers, but that raises the total impedance too high and you have the opposite problem - not enough current to really drive the bass.
You can't really do the opposite either, (use the low pass filter and wire the infinity+5X7s to it), because your infinity speakers would end up getting just bass. And then there's still the impedance mismatching. Either 1.7 ohms or 7. All in all, I suggest you simply not use the filter on the amp to avoid problems, and not wire the infinitys and the 5x7s to the same amp either.

TL;DR: Get a 3-way crossover, at least 500W max, 4 ohm impedance.

Hope I helped.

 

[unfknbvlbl]

OK, I looked at the amp you're buying and see that it has a basic lowpass/highpass filter on it.
What I recommend is that you think of the combination 5x7+mid+tweeter as a set. You should want them to remain as a set regardless of which amp you hook them to. I assume you mean you have 2 of each driver (one for each channel).

Now, I recommend you get a 3 way crossover for this set. This will provide better impedance matching and better utilize both amps. Which is also something I recommend - using both amps. Any 3 way Xover rated at least 500W and 4 ohm impedance should work. Not knowing the exact specs on all three drivers makes any crossover frequency recommendation a complete crap shoot.
My second recommendation is that you hook your Infinitys to one amp and your other sets to the other amp. This avoids all problems with power distribution and impedance.

I do not recommend breaking up the set. One problem with using the high pass filter on your amp to drive just the mids and tweeters is that leaves all the woofers for your Rockford amp. And that drops the total load pretty low. It will run hot and might even shut down on you at high volumes. You could run them in series with your Infinity speakers, but that raises the total impedance too high and you have the opposite problem - not enough current to really drive the bass.
You can't really do the opposite either, (use the low pass filter and wire the infinity+5X7s to it), because your infinity speakers would end up getting just bass. And then there's still the impedance mismatching. Either 1.7 ohms or 7. All in all, I suggest you simply not use the filter on the amp to avoid problems, and not wire the infinitys and the 5x7s to the same amp either.

TL;DR: Get a 3-way crossover, at least 500W max, 4 ohm impedance.

Hope I helped.

First of all I want to thank you for the help you have provided me and the time you've taken to do so!!!!! YOU'RE AWESOME!
Now lets get down to details.

1: Head unit:

Kenwood x500 Excelon'

2: Amps:

Hifonics Zeus ZRX1016.4 1000 Watt RMS 4 Channel Car Amplifier Class AB Amp (FRONT/REAR)
Rockford Fosgate 200a. (OLD SCHOOL) 4 channel 200 watt rms amp (FRONT/ REAR)
Boss Armour 3000 watt monoblock class D amp (SUB)

3: Speakers:

2 - DS18 PRO-X6.4BM 1200W Max 6.5" Midrange Speakers Loudspeaker With Bullet
2 - DS18 PRO-TW210 350 Watts Titanium Super Bullet Tweeter
2 - CADENCE QRS57 5" X 7" 80 WATT RMS QRS SERIES 2-WAY COAXIAL SPEAKERS
1 - Alpine SWR-12D2 Type-R 12" Dual 2-Oh Subwoofer (In a Labyrinth Bass SPL Vented Box)
2 - Infinity 320 Watts PR6500cs 6-1/2" 2-Way Car Component Speaker System

SO thats what I have , if I could send you pics then i'd show you the custom fiber glassing done to my doors. I am willing to upgrade on my speakers if need be, cuz I want the loudest cleanest system possible!!!! And I believe that with your help, we can do this!!!!!! The only problem i see with using the rockford and the hifonics amps for the front / or rear speakers is that there is a huge wattage difference between the 2 amps. And just fyi both RF and Hifonics have hpf and lpf . As well as my head unit. I'm just sayin, not saying i should use them im just sayin i have them And i do use both the head unit and the amps filters right now.

So now you can get all the specs and tell me everything!@!! 😀 Also if you can make a list of the Best Sounding, Highest powered crystal clear speakers, that would be great!!!!! What I am tryin g to achieve is a super loud, crystal clear system with a Heavy bass boom! And right now i'm close but I know i can do better. give me your email address, if your comfortable , so i can show you some pics. I gotta tell u im pretty proud of it!!!!! I built the door myself! And THANKS AGAIN!!!!!

Here's the specs!!!!

AMPLIFIERS:

Hifonics Zeus ZRX1016.4 [/uFeatures:

Hifonics Zeus ZRX1016.4 1000 Watt RMS 4 Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
Power Output: 250 Watts x 4 Channels @ 2 ohms
Power Output: 125 Watts x 4 Channels @ 4 ohms
Power Output Bridged: 500 Watts x 2 Channels @ 4 ohms
Illuminated Hifonics badge
Old School Hifonics Heatsink for Superior Heat Dissipation
Military Grade PCB
SPC - Simpatico Coil Design
HSMD - Hifonics Surface Mount Design
PWM MOSFET Power Supply for Maximum Current Levels
Diagnostic Indicators
DC, Short Circuit, Thermal and Overload Protection
Low Level RCA Inputs and Outputs
Frequency Response: 10Hz-45KHz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >90dB
RCA Input
Fuse: 35A x 3
Bass Boost: 0-12 dB
Variable hi-pass filter (60-1.2 KHz)
Variable low-pass filter (30-250 Hz)


Amplifier:[u]Rockford Fosgate PUNCH 200[/u]

PUNCH AMPLIFIER MODEL 200
F/R + SUB
# of CHANNELS 4 4 4 4 5
RMS Power Stereo (4Ω) 25x4
RMS Power Stereo (2Ω) 50x4
RMS Power Bridged/Mono (4Ω) 100x2
Stable Into: (each channel) 2Ω
Stable into: (bridged/mono) 4Ω
TRANS•ana – circuit topology x x x x x
TRANS•nova – patented circuit topology2 – – – – –
Class-G – high efficiency topology – – – – SUB only
MEHSA – heat dissipating technology – x x x x
TOPAZ – patented noise eliminating circuitry3 x x x x x
DSM – discrete surface mount x x x x x
MOSFETs – power supply & output devices x x x x x
NOMAD – protection circuit x x x x x
FEATURES
Die Cast Heatsink4 x x x x x
Hi-Level Inputs – for factory radios x x x x F/R only
RCA Inputs – for aftermarket radios x x x x x
Balanced Inputs – – – – –
Input Switches – eliminates “Y” adaptors x x x x x
Pass-Thru – feeds signal to aux. amp x x x x –
Pwr/Spk Screw Terminals – – – – Spk
Pwr/Spk Block Terminals x x x x Pwr
4 Gauge PWR/GND – – – – –
PUNCH AMPLIFIER MODEL 200
Adjustable Punch Bass – – – – –
(0dB/+6dB/+12dB @ 45Hz)
Variable Punch Bass – – x x x
(0dB ~+18dB @ 45Hz)
Adjustable Xover (80Hz) – – – – –
Variable Xover (50Hz ~ 210Hz) HP/FULL/LP5 HP/FULL/LP5 HP/FULL/LP5 HP/FULL/LP5 HP/FULL/LP5
Crossover Slope (Butterworth) 12dB 12dB 12dB 12dB 12dB + 24dB6
Phase Warp (00 ~ 1800) – – – – –
GENERAL
B+ Fuse Size 30

Amplifier:
New Boss AR3000D Armor Series
3000 Watt Mono D Car Amplifier
RMS Power:
1200 Watt x 1 Channel @ 4 Ohm
Max Power:
2200 Watt x 1 Channel @ 2 Ohm
3000 Watt x 1 Channel @ 1 Ohm
Mosfet Power Supply
Subsonic Filter
Phase Control
THD: 0.01%
Signal to Noise Ratio: >105dB
Dimensions: 6.5" W x 2.625" H x 13-5/16"L
Product Condition: Brand New
Item Weight: 7.25 lbs
Part Number: AR3000D
Warranty – 6 Year Authorized Platinum Online Dealer Warranty - 1 year factory plus 5 years extended from Boss Audio when purchased from VMInnovations
Amp Kit:
New VM Audio SRSK4B 4 Gauge Amplifier Complete Wiring Kit
Maximum of 2000 watts
Complete amplifier wiring kit with cables, connectors and accessories
4 Gauge high current power cables with 315 multi stranded bare copper
4 Gauge high current ground cables with 315 multi stranded bare copper
18 Gauge remote turn on wire with solid red insulation jacket
12 Gauge high density two conductor copper speaker wire with clear red insulation jacket




SPEAKERS:

DS18 PRO Tweeters :
Size😛air  | Style😛RO-TW210 Engineered and Designed in the US, the DS18 PRO Tweeters are the top of the line in the Pro Audio/Voceteo market. These bad boys deliver so much power that you'd think with one tweeter your whole sound system is ready to deploy for a major concert. Simply put, there are no tweeters that can compare to the sophistication, beauty, and precision of these tweeters especially in the Pro Audio/Voceteo World. Thanks to the demands of our customers, after months of relentless tests and experiments, our team of audio-experts perfected the PRO line. We are ecstatic to share with you the product of hard-work and "non-stop innovating attitude." We are sure that you will love your new PRO Tweeters as much as we do. Warning: Extremely Loud. DS18 is a proud member of CEA, IASCA, MERA, and SEMAPRO-TW210 1" Titanium Super Bullet Tweeter Die-Cast Aluminum Basket with CNC 8 Oz High Strenght Ferrite Magnet 1" High Temperature Kapton Voice Coil 225 Watts RMS Power 350 Watts Max Power Impdeance: 4-Ohms Included Capacitor Crossover Sensitivity: 102 dB Frequency Response: 2.2k - 6.8kHz Overall Diameter: 80mm (3.15 in) Baffle Cutout Diameter: 72mm (2.83 in) Depth: 72mm (2.83 in)

Features:

350 Watts Max Power and 225 Watts RMS Power
Die Cast Aluminum Basket with CNC, 8 Oz High-Strength Ferrite Magnet
1" High-Temperature Kapton Voice Coil with Included Capacitor Crossover
4-Ohms Impedance and 102dB of Sensitivity
Frequency Response of 2.2K-19KHz

Product Details:

Product Dimensions: 4 x 4 x 2.8 inches
Item Weight: 3 pounds
Shipping Weight: 3 pounds
Item model number: PRO-TW210
Batteries: 1 12V batteries required.



Product Description

Two DS18 6.5" Midrange Loudspeaker
PRO-X6.4BM


We are an authorized DS18 dealer bringing you the great products that this company has to offer. These Midrange speakers were spawned off of the DS18 EXL line in order to offer a great product for the competition audiophiles and concert/"voceteo" audiophiles. The Pro-X6.4BM emphasizes a wide variety of midranges producing conert like sounds and giving you the higher frequencies for clearer voices. Read more about the specifications below. This listing is for 2 speakers with up to 1200 Watts Max Power.

Specifications per Speaker:

Red Color Steel Basket
30 Oz. High Strength Ferrite Magnet
Cloth Edge and Non-Pressed Paper Cone
1.5" High Temperature CCAR Voice Coil
Red Aluminum Bullet
300 Watts RMS Power
600 Watts Max Power
Impedance: 4 Ohms
Sensitivity: 93 dB
Frequency Response: 106-17kHz



Description 5X7 Cadence

QRS57
Cadence 5" x 7" 80W RMS QRS Series 2-Way Coaxial Speakers
RMS Power Handling: 80 watts per peaker | PEAK Power Handling: 180 Watts per Speaker // 360 Watts per System
Frequency Response: 70Hz
20 kHz
SPL @ 1w/1m: 90dB
Mounting Depth: 2.08"


Alpine sub:
12" subwoofer with dual 2-ohm voice coils
Kevlar reinforced pulp cone with HAMRS Santoprene rubber surround
frequency response: 24-200 Hz
power handling: 300-1,000 watts RMS (500 watts per coil)
peak power: 3,000 watts
sensitivity: 84 dB

Infinity CS6500 General Specifications
Power Handling (Continuous/Peak)
70W/280W
Recommended Amplifier Power Range
5W – 200W
Size
6--1/2"
Audio Specifications
Frequency Response
53Hz – 21kHz
Nominal Impedance
3 ohms
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)
93dB
Power Handling (RMS)
80 W
Sensitivity
93dB
Power Handling (Peak)
320 W
Speaker Specifications
Speaker Type
6--1/2" Two-Way Component System
Dimensions
Speaker Diameter (in)
6-1/4"
Speaker Depth (in)
2-1/2"
Speaker Mounting Diameter (in)
5-1/16"
Speaker Mounting Depth (in)
2-1/16"
Tweeter Diameter (in)
1-13/16"
Tweeter Depth (in)
1-7/16"
Tweeter Mounting Diameter (in)
1-9/16"
Tweeter Mounting Depth (in)
13/16"
Crossover Height (in)
2-7/32"
Crossover Width (in)
2-3/16"
Crossover Depth (in)
15/16"

 

[jdlech]

You do realize professional companies can spend 5 years or more designing new speaker systems, right?:lol:
There's a couple of things you need to know.
1st. your hifonics amp is not all that. It's advertised power rating is a wee bit inflated. According to the specs at http/hifonics.com/zrx-1016-4/ , it's rated power is with "100.5% Total Harmonic Distortion". It's not even possible to go beyond 100% THD That's PURE distortion. That's inputting a pure sine wave and getting a perfect square wave out. They measured total power while overdriving the amp to 99.5% clipping. But instead of reporting the terrible truth, they decided to obfuscate it by saying it was a nonsensical 100.5% instead of 99.5%. Based on that, there's no way anybody can tell you what the actual power rating of that amp is without retesting the amp. My guess would be around 2x200W RMS bridged into 4 ohms (maybe less), but that's just a guess based on other amps that I've seen rated with similar methods. And only an honest test can tell you what the THD is at normal operation. It might be so bad, you might not want to find out.

Comparatively, your Rockford is a true 2x100W per channel into 4 ohms at <0.1% THD. You might not want your hifonics amp to put out any more power than your Rockford does. That's the difference between "old school" and "new school". New school lies to you like a junkie bitch in need of a fix.
Now, your AR3000D sub amp is incredible,;literally unbelievable. It's rated a true 1x1200W RMS into 4 ohms at >0.01THD. What makes this unbelievable is that it goes for under $100 new with specs that match amps at 15X the price. That's just too good to be true, but let's assume it's real and right.

The takeaway from this is - you probably don't want your hifonics amp to put out any more power than your Rockford does.

Now on to your speakers.
SWR-12D2, Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz
So your crossover freq should be around 100-150Hz range to get the most out of your sub. But your sub is not as strong as your amp. So you might want the amps output dialed back by about 10-15% so max volume doesn't blow the speaker.

CADENCE QRS57, Frequency Response:70Hz - 20 kHz, SPL 90dB, 80W RMS
DS18 PRO-X6.4BM, Frequency Response: 116Hz – 14KHz, SPL 94dB, 250W RMS
DS18 PRO-TW210 FQR: 2.2K-19K, SPL: 102dB, 225W RMS

I recommend you get a set of 6Db/octave, 4 ohm, 3 way crossover with crossover frequencies at, or near, 500Hz, and anywhere within the range of 5K- 7.5K rated to handle at least 200W RMS/280W peak. I would go with simple 6dB/octave crossovers instead of 12 to help minimize phase shift and power loss. But 12dB/octave Xovers will also work.
I would wire these speakers through the Xovers and to your Hifonics amp.

Infinity PR6500cs: FQR: 53Hz – 21kH, SPL: 93dB, : 80W RMS
Yeah, they're only 80W speakers, which is why I recommend matching them to your 100W Rockford amp. Your Hifonic amp would probably blow them. If not with too much power, then with too much distortion.

Wow, I just realized I spent 7 hours on one crazy post. Time for a break.
Good luck.

 

[unfknbvlbl]

You do realize professional companies can spend 5 years or more designing new speaker systems, right?:lol:
There's a couple of things you need to know.
1st. your hifonics amp is not all that. It's advertised power rating is a wee bit inflated. According to the specs at http/hifonics.com/zrx-1016-4/ , it's rated power is with "100.5% Total Harmonic Distortion". It's not even possible to go beyond 100% THD That's PURE distortion. That's inputting a pure sine wave and getting a perfect square wave out. They measured total power while overdriving the amp to 99.5% clipping. But instead of reporting the terrible truth, they decided to obfuscate it by saying it was a nonsensical 100.5% instead of 99.5%. Based on that, there's no way anybody can tell you what the actual power rating of that amp is without retesting the amp. My guess would be around 2x200W RMS bridged into 4 ohms (maybe less), but that's just a guess based on other amps that I've seen rated with similar methods. And only an honest test can tell you what the THD is at normal operation. It might be so bad, you might not want to find out.

Comparatively, your Rockford is a true 2x100W per channel into 4 ohms at <0.1% THD. You might not want your hifonics amp to put out any more power than your Rockford does. That's the difference between "old school" and "new school". New school lies to you like a junkie bitch in need of a fix.
Now, your AR3000D sub amp is incredible,;literally unbelievable. It's rated a true 1x1200W RMS into 4 ohms at >0.01THD. What makes this unbelievable is that it goes for under $100 new with specs that match amps at 15X the price. That's just too good to be true, but let's assume it's real and right.

The takeaway from this is - you probably don't want your hifonics amp to put out any more power than your Rockford does.

Now on to your speakers.
SWR-12D2, Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz
So your crossover freq should be around 100-150Hz range to get the most out of your sub. But your sub is not as strong as your amp. So you might want the amps output dialed back by about 10-15% so max volume doesn't blow the speaker.

CADENCE QRS57, Frequency Response:70Hz - 20 kHz, SPL 90dB, 80W RMS
DS18 PRO-X6.4BM, Frequency Response: 116Hz – 14KHz, SPL 94dB, 250W RMS
DS18 PRO-TW210 FQR: 2.2K-19K, SPL: 102dB, 225W RMS

I recommend you get a set of 6Db/octave, 4 ohm, 3 way crossover with crossover frequencies at, or near, 500Hz, and anywhere within the range of 5K- 7.5K rated to handle at least 200W RMS/280W peak. I would go with simple 6dB/octave crossovers instead of 12 to help minimize phase shift and power loss. But 12dB/octave Xovers will also work.
I would wire these speakers through the Xovers and to your Hifonics amp.

Infinity PR6500cs: FQR: 53Hz – 21kH, SPL: 93dB, : 80W RMS
Yeah, they're only 80W speakers, which is why I recommend matching them to your 100W Rockford amp. Your Hifonic amp would probably blow them. If not with too much power, then with too much distortion.

Wow, I just realized I spent 7 hours on one crazy post. Time for a break.
Good luck.

THANK YOU SO MUCH BRO for all that info !!!!! But I have 1 thinG to say, " F#@K!!!!!" WHY DIDN'T i ASK YOU ABOUT THE AMP BEFORE i BOUGHT IT! I will say this, they dyno tested a Hifonics 2500 watt amp on youtube and it actually put out 2100 watts. and a they tested couple other hifonic amps and they just as well. And I did do alot of research and reveiw searching, ( which I know most aren't experts like yourself), and they were all really good. So thats why I bought it.

I know you have spent alot of time on this already and I do really really appreciate it!!!! But I have to ask you a couple more questions. And they shouldn't take much of your time. Now I may be able to return it. If so what amp would you suggest? And if need be, should I upgrade my infinity's for something that can handle more power? If so any suggestions? Also what should I set my subsonic filter for my sub to? THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!