Doonesbury

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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:01:11 GMT, John <ssconmag1@verizon.net> wrote:

>On 2/26/05 7:50 PM, in article n76221l513ar4gum1lnvd91bourm2muikc@4ax.com,
>"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>>> OK, can you teach me to be Jimi Hendrix?
>>>
>>> Actually, yes. If you define 'being Jimi Hendrix' as being able to walk into
>>> a bar with an average guitar and amp and be able to pull off FOXY LADY or
>>> VOODOO CHILD (or vooDoo Chile a slight return) or Wind Cries Mary or RED
>>> HOUSE so that EVERYBODY gets it in the first 15 seconds.
>>
>> Hell no, that's not what I mean. That has nothing to do with innate
>> ability, also known as talent. "Being" Jimi Hendrix has nothing to do
>> with imitating him.
>BINGO, and now you;ve reveresed 180 and are saying EXACTLY what Trevor said
>that you took vehement issue with.
>GET A CLUE and stay on point here. You;re looking silly.

Calm down, ace. Trevor said he didn't believe there was such a thing
as talent, and I disagreed. I don't see the inconsistency, perhaps you
can explain?

Al

 

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On 26 Feb 2005 20:51:28 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>> For every
>> Nora Jones there are at least dozen Ushers, Eminems, 50 cents etc.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by this. Those are all top selling pop
>artists whose records sell for $13-$16 and probably have about the
>same sales and profit margins. Now if you had said that for every
>Norah Jones there are at least a dozen Als, I'd believe you. But I've
>heard of NJ and heard her music, and I haven't heard of you.

Norah Jones played here in East Jesus, Arkansas to about
5000 folks of all ages last year. Great show, and re-affirmed
my failing faith in popular taste.

Those other guys, AFASIK, don't bother playing the sticks.
Fine by me, anyway.

There's bound to be a big spectrum of ways to be a musician,
and all of us would like to encourage the seed and fertilizer
parts of growing 'em. Current structure allows more chaff
than earlier regimented/ corporate models, but may also allow
more wheat. Maybe, lord willin.

Combine that trend with The Radio Problem and we have...
And an opportunity for radio (or the contemporary equivalent).

Five thousand people went to see Norah Jones here.
It's gotta mean something.

Chris Hornbeck

 

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"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news2p1219u97e74ihivccd8jmdrioserm3bm@4ax.com...

> Fine, then put a small tax on computer or on broadband connections.
>
So you want those of us who don't download music to pay for your habit?

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
news:1109451940.03f20b0a72478f40361377a81215b2b5@teranews...
> See, the problem is I have trouble believing in "talent".

With no disrespect intended (and certainly no personal insult intended),
could that be why, though your degree is in composition, you're working in a
support position in Information Technology?

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:50:18 GMT, "Dave Martin" <dmainc@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news2p1219u97e74ihivccd8jmdrioserm3bm@4ax.com...
>
>> Fine, then put a small tax on computer or on broadband connections.
>>
>So you want those of us who don't download music to pay for your habit?

It's not like it's an idea out of the blue... people already have been
paying taxes on blank media whether they use it to copy protected
material or not. What's your idea? Rant at high school and college
students until they stop file sharing? Yeah that'll work...

Al

 

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"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
news:1109452237.8eab886ddcca8de90f0dcd45f1cd174c@teranews...
> Once again, I think almost any behavior can be learned.

Cool - then how can we get people to learn that stealing is theft?

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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"Trevor de Clercq" <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote in message
news:1109456055.6a6845ade5bb6b061b20dcc3fd8674b5@teranews...
> Shouldn't the work be reward enough? OK, some people don't like their
> work. That's unfortunate. Perhaps let me ask, when did people start
> deserving rewards for 20 years of faithful work?

Jeezus! Have you NEVER read anything in your life? Even in essentially
cashless economies (remember the feudal system?), those beyond working age
were allowed to sit and enjoy the sun on their tired bones without slaving
in the fields all day.

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>It's not like it's an idea out of the blue... people already have been
>paying taxes on blank media whether they use it to copy protected
>material or not. What's your idea? Rant at high school and college
>students until they stop file sharing? Yeah that'll work...

Yes, the taxes on DAT tapes and music-CD media sure were effective.
Try another solution.

I don't have one, mind you. But technical solutions don't solve social
problems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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In article <1109456055.6a6845ade5bb6b061b20dcc3fd8674b5@teranews> declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu writes:

> Shouldn't the work be reward enough?

Only if your work is testing lots of good food and hotel rooms. I
think that what you're leading to is that music should be a rewarding
hobby and not what one does for a living. I have no problem with that.
But hobbyists, while proud of their work, sometimes create things
which they could sell, and do sell.

Even the IRS has a way of dealing with this, and at times, hobbies do
indeed turn enough of a profit to be considerd a living wage. The
people who do this have then turned the corner from hobby to business.
And everyone who wants to stay in business has to be concerned with
loss, whether it's actual theft (someone walks away with the salad
bowl you had for sale at the craft show) or opportunity loss - someone
downloads your CD rather than handing you cash for it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <7IednWP8lYMitLzfRVn-uA@adelphia.com> opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com writes:

> I think a nice number is 50 years for copyrights. After that, it should be
> public domain.

How about ten years after the first release? That would give a working
songwriter a chance to make most of their money on the initial
release and a few residuals, but wouldn't protect the one-hit-wonder
who just got lucky.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <0sbUd.8117$Ba3.3123@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> dmainc@earthlink.net writes:

> Cool - then how can we get people to learn that stealing is theft?

Duct-tape ear buds to their head, put in a feeding tube, and make them
listen to hip-hop for a week.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <itg22156q1ufkf804vj8h4o44u7fgbjro3@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> >> Like Prince?
> >
> >Sure, and his staff.
>
> Which is still a far cry from a major label.

There's nothing magic about a major label, it's just one way that a
small number of artists get noticed for a short period of time. Prince
was on a major label at one time, and without that "kick start" I
doubt that he would be able to sustain his career to a fairly high
level independently. Or maybe he would have (I think he has some
pretty good talent and brains) but we'll never know, will we? Because
he was in the right place at the right time 20 years ago.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <pug221lfiji59gtqsafcbvu3tokeruen8n@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> Tours are "handed" to people?

In a sense, yes. The record company sets it up and tells the artists
when to be where. They don't have to carry their own luggage. They
don't have to drive themselves all night to get to the next gig. They
get fed. And they know when they can go home.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <n1h2211u0sqfr8pobt8li17t9j246q3ipk@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> What I mean by this, is that some of the biggest money-makers in pop
> music do not require a conventional studio that is set up to record
> conventional live instruments, since they don't use any.

So why do they continue to use big studios, with skilled engineers and
producers? I think you're saying that it's possible to produce a
certain kind of record without a lot of equipment and I agree with
you, but people who make successful (that is, big-selling) records
don't work that way. One reason is that the artists don't have the
discipline to work outside the studio environment - that's where they
create, and when they're home, they're home. Someone who has
worked in a major studio with all the gear available so that when
someone has an idea they can pull a device off the shelf or load a
plug-in just isn't going to have the freedom to do that in a basement
of a house with a ProTools system. It's human nature.

> I was talking about the money spent, making the music
> and making the recording. Not the money spent making the hit.

Chump change. But without MAKING the hit, you won't have a hit.

> That is my point, more or less. So in a way, whenever you are buying
> a CD, a lot of what you are paying for is the marketing, not the
> music. Of course any artist needs some marketing to be sucessful, but
> there are a lot of different ways to do that. Unfortunately it's sort
> of become the tail wagging the dog.

That may be true, but it's not going to change overnight, or maybe not
even in your lifetime. But things changed from the way they were in
the 19th century, and from the way they were in the first half of the
20th century, so maybe by the middle of the 21st century musicians and
songwriters will be working in a different way. Until then, we just
have to deal with the 2000 pound dinosaurs who move and think slowly.

> >> Ever heard of the Eurythmics? The cut their first (hit) album on an 8
> >> track tascam at their home. And that was in the 1980s.
> >
> >Yeah, and then they broke up. Didn't Annie Lennox just do music for a
> >film that's up for an Academy Award?
>
> Got me...

So the most important thing you know about them is that they recorded
their first album at home? Big deal!



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <nfh221935hrb0ml21o2nqj7j34vq83tuf2@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> >Like you have time to listen at your computer, but you don't have time
> >to listen in a place where you can play a cassette or CD?
>
> Because I do a lot of work on my computer, and my hi-fi is in another
> room... damn.

That's my point - you're working on your computer. You're not
concentrating on the music. You probably can't even tell me five
minutes after a song has played just what you've heard. I'm like that
too. But I like to have music, or at least some sound, going while I'm
working on my computer. Usually I do my first dose of rec.audio.pro
for the day right after I wake up and I turn on the radio and listen
to Morning Editon. While I can't quote you the news of the day, when I
read the newspaper later on I have a little better idea of what to
look for. Today being Sunday, I'm listening to last night's recording
of American Routes (another radio program) with one ear while I'm
trying to figure out something pithy to say to you. But if I was
listening to it with the same level of concentration that I do when I
really want to listen to THE MUSIC, I'd be writing what I (and not
just you) consider drivel.

So why not just try turning on the radio, or go to one of the radio
station web sites we discussed here a few weeks ago and see what's out
there that you don't know about? You won't be stealing, and you might
discover something to buy.

> I do that too, but sometime I want to pick the tunes. What's wrong
> with that, when I've already paid for them anyway?

Nothing, but what's the point if you're going to be doing something
while they're playing that takes your concentration away from the
music? I hate opera, but sometimes when I have the classical station
on and they're playing opera while I'm typing away, I'll realize that
I've been "listening" to it for half an hour and it really didn't
matter a bit. It's when I take a break from the computer that I decide
to change the station.

> Playlists, Mike, playlists. Like I said, who cares, since I have
> already bought the music, in some cases 2 or 3 times. It is also
> possible to record live streams, did you know that?

Yes, I've done that. Don't you get bored with your playlists? And when
do you find the time to put them together?

> Why am I assumed guilty?

Because most people are.

> Mike you can pick on me all you want, but what is your solution?

To what problem? Free downloading of music? Start catching even the
small time criminals, throw them in jail, and eventually people will
catch on. But if you just file half a dozen lawsuits, it doesn't prove
anything. The odds of getting sued right now are far too easy to beat.

> OK, let's call it a radio with a cassette recorder attached to it.

Fine. And if the only material that you can record is material that
has been paid for, that's a start. But you have to go a step further.
Make the recording keyed to the computer so that it can't be shared,
and it can't even be transferred to a CD so you can play it in your
car. Make it a computer medium that's tied to the computer. But of
course that would raise all sorts of "freedom" cries.

I've already said my piece about CDs that are protected so that they
can't be copied or played in a computer.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <9oi221d0b1e12hnvek0l4ngsukos6qlfst@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> I don't know if it's a revolution, but it does portend a huge change.
> There have been other revolutions that have destroyed industries --
> assembly line manufacturing, the automation of farming, etc. all threw
> huge numbers of people out of work for a time and caused serious
> social upheaval. In comparion to these events, the file sharing thing
> is small potatos. Everytime something like this happens, things are
> lost as well as gained, and the world goes on.

Suppose all forms of music distribution were stopped for a few years
until the industry could come up with a new model? Jobs would be lost,
product would become scarce in the market, and the world would go on.
Maybe that would open up the market for live music clubs and there
would be more gigs for working musicians.

Jimmy Thudpucker again.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Troy]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

if you had the awnser to the problem you would be a rich man.The problem is
that the internet is such a vast region that it can't be policed.No one can
control what you download upload or share.

The reason why record companies can't embrace the technology is because they
can't CONTROL IT.If they could it would mean bigger paydays than ever seen
in the history of the music industry.

Its like the honor system at work.....you leave .25 for a coffee in a cup to
keep replenishing the product.Of course you have those who don't leave a
quarter who think why should I pay for it when others buy it for me.

Those using the internet to buy music are replenishing the product.Those who
take but never pay are putting a lot of people out of work down the line.




play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4c02219iihdmrb0jqe15f4n1m0u1oceibu@4ax.com...
> And your solution is what? Prosecute as many teenagers as possible
> with hefty lawsuits?
>
> Al
>
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:03:56 GMT, John <ssconmag1@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >>> You paid a tax on the cassette or open reel blank tape that offset the
copy.
> >>
> >> Fine, then put a small tax on computer or on broadband connections.
> >
> >NO No NO NO NO and NO
> >This is paying a FINE for being found Guilty of Theft without a trial and
> >doesn;t work. I hated the idea when it happened to cass and Cdr media and
> >there's no reason to extend the kludgy inept system to further make a
muddle
> >of this issue. It tacitly says 'HEY! YOU PAID ALREADY! GO AHEAD A
DOWNLOAD
> >EVERYTHING!"
> >
> >WRONG WRONG WRONG.
> >
>

 

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Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1109375088k@trad...
>
> In article <1109369352.0f72236bdc49efc13ff467b8af58918f@teranews>
declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu writes:
>
> > As far as books go, I can just go to the library and check them out for
> > free. It's great! Who "rents" books?
>
> But can you plug that book into your computer, make a copy of it, and
> send it to someone else?
>


Actually.....Yes you can.You can digitize almost anything and share it
accross the internet.There are no boundries anymore.




> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Troy]

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David Morgan (MAMS) <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:895Ud.31206$uc.18995@trnddc01...
>
> "play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fpm121hd2ue7ieqqqjj9p7ab30qtgrcpj8@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:51:57 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> > <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ea8v11tq7i220hk40jrdvbati38lg1ie1j@4ax.com...
> > >> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:14:08 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
> > >> <declerct@REMOVETHISnewschool.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Call me crazy, but I'm not even sure I totally believe in copyright
> > >> >laws. I have conceptual problems with people "owning" ideas or
> > >> >intangible things like chord progressions or voicings in a specific
song
> > >> >or arrangement. Music is so derivative anyway I feel noone can
claim
> > >> >the complete right of ownership to a recording or composition
because so
> > >> >much in any recording or composition is stolen from hundreds of
other
> > >> >recordings or compositions.
> > >>
> > >> Absolutely correct. Even the great classical composers ripped off
> > >> folk melodies with abandon.
> > >>
> > >> Al
> > >
> > >C'mon Al, even Bethoven was paid for his compositions by the Royal
court.
> >
> > What's your point? Sure Beethoven was paid, as long as he stayed in
> > favor, but not the peasant that may have originally come up with the
> > melody he swiped.
> >
> > Al
>
>
> I don't think too many peasants has pianos. ;-) But point taken.
>
>

Good thing the peasants didn't have computers or Beethoven would have had to
get a job at McD's

 

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He didn't say it should be free, Einstein.

And the labels ARE COMPLETELY to blame for this.

1. They charged too much for CD's and forced kids into figuring out a
way to get it cheaper.

2. They promoted one-hit wonders rather than career artists, and
effectively made popular music worse and people dumber.

I hope they shrivel up and die.

Studios will survive if they're good.