dumb video card question for laptops

[ramsfan8583]

Until just recently i never really thought of getting a laptop, so i really havent stayed up to date with them, but i was wondering are their any directx 10 cards for them or plans for them to come out anytime in the next few months?

 

[p3matty]

no and yes. Check out the new platform called Sana Rosa (maybe it's Santa Rosa). It's the next in the Centrino line, and will have DX10 support.

 

[killernotebooks]

Possibly by early or mid June for your GPU question.

Santa Rosa doesn't have anything to do with GPU's.
It is a designation for a faster fsb, and wireless along with slightly faster CPU clock speeds at this point)

 

[lostandwandering]

You're right about that. The word is though, that DX10 for notebooks is supposed to be released at about the same time. Not sure if that is what he was saying or not.

Oh, and welcome back to the grind!

 

[killernotebooks]

Thanks for the welcome back. I finally got some time to go outside and play or a change.

The release of DX-10 GPU's is so overhyped, and if they arrive by June I am going to guess that they won't be anything close to what we know of an 8800 class card.

The heat and power requirements are so great... well, just look at it this way my 8800 GTX desktop card runs at 60 degrees C. and requires at least a 450 watt power supply (which is another so lowball number it isn't even reasonable to think it will work with a 450 watt power supply effectively). How is that going to translate to a notebook?

I think at this point there is allot of talking about what will be released by companies (like nVidia) to appease end users so they just stop asking When will it be out? Another thing to consider is that DELL always gets the hardware months before anyone else with their "back-door" nVidia deals and they do not have an 8800 mobile GPU as of yet.

The good news is that the heatsink I designed and built will be manufactured and mass produced mid-May. It will undoubtedly work with the new class of cards OR will be easily modifiable to work with them.

There is a phase-1 or internal mod (which is the heatsink itself), my phase-2 of the heatsink mod is case related, and phase-3 is a custom notebook cooler (still being designed).

Heat is a very dangerous thing to components in machines and longevity, the only thing more dangerous is corporate greed. Greed causes companies to NOT develop any more of a solution than is necessary for whatever, in this case heat.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Killer Notebooks does not have the resources, manpower or capital that DELL computer, or Alienware or any of the big boxmakers has, yet - we are the only ones doing anything about the problem... why is that?

 

[asusman]

What are your thoughts on the MXM modules?

http/www.nvidia.com/page/mxm.html

 

[killernotebooks]

Both the Executioner and the Assassin have MXM cards, which is why I can offer anything from an ATI x1600, nVidia 7800 GTX, 7950 GTX and whatever comes down the pipeline next in them. This is an idea that is long overdue, but never seems to catch on.

Great ideas have one drawback... they have to get someone in the manufacturing and engineering chain to go for it and believe in them. Until the ODM's want it... it's never going to happen.

That is one thing that is so funny in this industry. People wait and wait for the next big thing, they read Intel is releasing something let's use, "Santa Rosa". Everyone was PUMPED this was going to happen 1st Q 2007, then that became March, April now end of May, or whenever.

After about 2 product releases you should figure out that rarely is a release on time, even after release you can't get the darn things for one reason or another, and finally the released item needs to be accepted and designed into something you can use. Just like MXM modules... MXM modules have been around for years! Check out the "MXM Product Overview pdf" on that link you gave, MAY '04.

I have an example for you, remember last summer the Core 2 Duo? Released Aug 31st... no one could get them until Oct! I had system builders and distributors calling and buying chips from me at 100% mark-up and they couldn't get enough of them! When the next big thing does come out, they are gobbled up right away. MXM modules are an idea that has not been even nibbled at in this industry, but would be BEST FOR THE END USER. Not many of these guys care about the end user though.

I do not like integrated GPU's, but they are a necessary evil in mid-range systems, but for a system you are paying out for, that is a gaming or workhorse desktop replacement... it is better to have upgradeable video.

The CPU's are plenty powerful now, they don't have to be replaced every twenty minutes like in the past. Heck, if you don't do something foolish like I did, which was go to Office 2007 (and grind my productivity to a halt), a Core Duo, even a 2 Ghz Pentium-M is going to be plenty for the average person, for gamers the Core 2 Duo is going to take you a LONG ways.

Many, and I can even say most games aren't even using multi-cores so you really just have it for multi-tasking. I don't know about you, but when I am gaming, I sure am not multi-tasking... the game is to escape the tons of work sitting there.

When I am working, I am multi-tasking, and a C2D can handle that with flying colors. 6-10 internet windows, Thunderbird email, company database, possibly Photoshop... no problem as long as you have the RAM for it.

Nah, the CPU, the front side bus, the memory, the wireless... those are going to last you for a while. The GPU though, even if you aren't upgrading, let's say the thing dies. Better to have to replace that than an entire system with integrated graphics. Modular components are always best... just in case.

Final thoughts... MXM modules :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:

 

[asusman]

Who sells MXM modules?

None of my distribs have them.

http/usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=23&l2=128&l3=0&model=1573&modelmenu=1

Asus has a new laptp with MXM, but I wanna know what upgrade to the card there are before I buy.

 

[killernotebooks]

I pretty much boycotted ASUS because it is clear they have NO INTENTION of helping out their "channel partners" and instead want to become a system builder and deliver end-user notebooks themselves.

They are getting more and more proprietary, like that external GPU solution that only works on one of their notebooks (that's not going to flop is it?). I would have been interested in that, but I am not going to play in a sandbox where all the cool toys are "off limits"... what's the point of that?

The price they want for that 17" machine is ridiculous! That, and consider that it has the SAME VIDEO CARD as my 14.1" model, an nVidia 7600 which isn't incredibly appealing to gamers. If they are going to a 17" system, they want something more powerful (IMHO). I can put an ATI x1600 in the Executioner, but I don't even offer it because it is a silly combination.

 

[asusman]

It's like $870 at dandh.com

Why don't they just sell them without a card, and let the customer choose what to put in.

I agree ,that external card is just retarded.

 

[killernotebooks]

The external card could have been something, but it will die on the vine like everything else due to corporate greed.

I second the motion, in it's current form it is stupid.

 

[ToalMander]

One thing i would really like to see in next generations of laptops is a high end graphics in 15.4 inches. I know it would sound like something impossible (heat problems, power supply, etc..) but seriously how come not even one manufacturer offers 15 inch laptop with at least 7900GS? Best one you can get today is Go 7700. There are some dells you can upgrade to 7800GTX underclocked and it workes fine. I just really wish to see some more choices in that range.

 

[killernotebooks]

Not going to happen, the cards:
:arrow: Use too much power.
:arrow: Are too hot.
:arrow: Are too expensive to implement.
:arrow: Probably the main reason... they are too large to fit in a 15.4" chassis with cooling.
With a 15.4" chassis, you aren't going to get in that sweet spot where corporate big whigs are going to say, "R&D it, and produce it... we think there is a big enough market to make money."

They sit around with the list of "what sells and what doesn't" and apply a simple formula to what they are going to invest in. For instance, everyone screams for "more resolution, more resolution", one of the big box makers came out with a 15.4" WUXGA, I think it was H.P.... how ridiculous is that? It appeals to about 15 people in the world. It is way too small of resolution.

As things get smaller, heat increases, manufacturing processes have to get tighter and RMA rates usually go up. No, the industry is moving toward "desktop replacement" and to fit into that formula, they see bigger screen real estate as sales leaders, not smaller.

Final thoughts:
No 15.4" notebook with a 7800/7900 class GPU on the horizon.