First Criminal Trial Regarding Console Modding

[nick8191]

[citation][nom]ericburnby[/nom]What a crock of shit. This is what all people who pirate/steal use as an argument to justify their actions. You could say BT is a great way to distribute large files, but the fact is most BT traffic is used for piracy. I know a lot of people with jailbroken iPhones. They can argue that it allows you to customize your phone, but all the ones I've seen are loaded to the hilt with free apps (many of them $50 or $100 apps like navigation).Every person I know who has a modded console has done it for free games. So stop with the bullshit about how it allows extra features to be added, cuz that's just a smokescreen to hide what you're really modding for.[/citation]

Actually, what kinggraves said is EXACTLY true... not a "crock of shit" as you decided to so prick-ishly put it. If all of your friends are modifying their gadgets for the purpose of stealing software, then they are software pirates and deserved to get kicked in the balls for screwing over the rest of us. Don't look at a small sample of people then make a gross generalization.

 

[thomaseron]

Persecution! Persecution I tell you!

 

[peanut_bully]

[citation][nom]nick8191[/nom]Don't look at a small sample of people then make a gross generalization.[/citation]
While EricBurnby might not be the most flattering of linguists, you have to concede that modding is used for piracy a great deal more than for more benevolent purposes. And that was what his ill-tempered rant was about. I agree that those who mod their systems for more "legitimate" purposes (although it seems there aren't any by law) get a bad rap due to the piracy aspect thereof, but the fact remains that piracy is the #1 reason to mod a console.

 

[kathiki]

QUOTE

What a crock of shit. This is what all people who pirate/steal use as an argument to justify their actions. You could say BT is a great way to distribute large files, but the fact is most BT traffic is used for piracy. I know a lot of people with jailbroken iPhones. They can argue that it allows you to customize your phone, but all the ones I've seen are loaded to the hilt with free apps (many of them $50 or $100 apps like navigation).

Every person I know who has a modded console has done it for free games. So stop with the bullshit about how it allows extra features to be added, cuz that's just a smokescreen to hide what you're really modding for.


If you want to insist paying so much money to the modern gaming industry be my guest..... People buying games off the shelves without being able to "assess" a game's content are actually those who destroy the industry, paying for every piece of crappy, buggy and expensive game without even reacting.......... 60 to 70 Euros per game for what? 15 hours to tops 20 hours? And all this when the developers are BLATANTLY LYING that the game offers 100+ hours of gameplay? They can just suck it in their bottoms..... Are they also accountable for lying to the consumers? Shouldn't these idiots also be brought to court for "illegal acting" ?

How many games produced these days are actually worth the money you pay? How many of them are released in the market trouble free? How many of them are released with poor content offering stupid DLCs of one hour gameplay that cost 10 Euros.......

When the gaming industry grows up itself, starts respecting the consumers, then consumers will do the same....... There will always be pirates, but there will always be mature consumers as well....

 

[Griffolion]

[citation][nom]rohitbaran[/nom]I bet Apple is going to sue the jailbreak software coders if this stupid case goes in the favor of MS. Someone buys the hardware, so he is its owner. Where does law come in between him modifying his owned hardware? Bull.[/citation]

Jailbreaking is legal. It was in a Toms news post a while ago. However companies still have the right to void warranties because of jailbreaking.

The whole issue is a bit of a grey area. Modding hardware isn't illegal but the playing of pirated games is as it is stealing. Its like the P2P programs, they are fine but as soon as music sharing happens that's when it becomes illegal.

 

[mlopinto2k1]

[citation][nom]kinggraves[/nom]The issue is that he himself is not violating copyright laws, and while mods can facilitate others to break copyright laws, they can also have legit uses. Take the Wii for example, a mod can allow you to copy and illegally play games, but also allow a better web browser, media player, and access to games from a USB device, features which many find beneficial. Piracy is but a small aspect of what the mod community accomplishes.Also, I wouldn't mind you telling me why DMCA and DRM aren't a joke. They've done nothing to prevent piracy and constantly make it harder for legit users to use their products as they wish. This case will do nothing to prevent console modding, since most mods are based out of Asia. This case also seems based on shaky grounds, with illegally acquired video as evidence and the fact that changes in the DMCA this year allow for mods for "testing purposes"[/citation]You just did exactly what I tried recommending NOT doing, voicing your argument to someone who does not matter. I am not going to get your voice heard. I could care less. All I know is if I develop a console and I do not want people circumventing the copy protection I have some leverage. Plain and simple. You will never win this argument. It isn't meant to be won, especially not here, on Tom's.

 

[aquila]

[citation][nom]LinuxLover[/nom]I can understand software piracy problems, but if I buy a console, I should be allowed to modify it any way I want to. I bought hardware...not a license to use the hardware.[/citation]
On a personal level, I agree, but sometimes, what you pay for is actually merely a license to use hardware under strict usage policies, and you do not really own the hardware in question.
Now, I don't know the full details of the EULAs for each console currently on the market, so this may or may not be the case, but I believe scenarios such as what I described above exist. I'm neither condoning nor condemning this practice, just saying...

 

[shin0bi272]

hey here's an idea... how about game programmers make games that dont suck? I havent bought any games in a while because they are all the damned same! An FPS is an FPS, an RTS is an RTS, etc etc the only things that change are the models, levels and graphical effects. That's one of the main reasons people pirate games... because they are all friggin dull after about 10 minutes of play! Or hey how about we cut the price of these games to 20 bucks for a AAA title? I know that that might sound like a radical solution but who wants to pay 50-60 bucks for a game that they are going to play through once in 8-10 hours?

 

[g00fysmiley]

i hope he gets off. in our justice system a jury has much more power than poeple think they have. if they find him not guilty then they can't charge somebody for simply modding the console again, it becomes a case where president has been set by a jury stating modding a console is not the same as violating copywrites (which its not) nopw if he's putting games on it himself then he's an idiot and it unfortunaly set precident to the contrary and there will be some happy companies

 

[surfer1337dude]

[citation][nom]kathiki[/nom]QUOTEWhat a crock of shit. This is what all people who pirate/steal use as an argument to justify their actions. You could say BT is a great way to distribute large files, but the fact is most BT traffic is used for piracy. I know a lot of people with jailbroken iPhones. They can argue that it allows you to customize your phone, but all the ones I've seen are loaded to the hilt with free apps (many of them $50 or $100 apps like navigation).Every person I know who has a modded console has done it for free games. So stop with the bullshit about how it allows extra features to be added, cuz that's just a smokescreen to hide what you're really modding for. If you want to insist paying so much money to the modern gaming industry be my guest..... People buying games off the shelves without being able to "assess" a game's content are actually those who destroy the industry, paying for every piece of crappy, buggy and expensive game without even reacting.......... 60 to 70 Euros per game for what? 15 hours to tops 20 hours? And all this when the developers are BLATANTLY LYING that the game offers 100+ hours of gameplay? They can just suck it in their bottoms..... Are they also accountable for lying to the consumers? Shouldn't these idiots also be brought to court for "illegal acting" ?How many games produced these days are actually worth the money you pay? How many of them are released in the market trouble free? How many of them are released with poor content offering stupid DLCs of one hour gameplay that cost 10 Euros.......When the gaming industry grows up itself, starts respecting the consumers, then consumers will do the same....... There will always be pirates, but there will always be mature consumers as well....[/citation]
Some of what you said I do agree with. But I wanted to throw this out there at you; yes 60-70 bucks for 15-20 hours of game play does sound a little steep but consider a movie. To go to my local theater it costs me 9.50 (regular movie). This is for 2 hours of entertainment. To get 15-20 hours of entainment it there it would cost me around 90+ bucks. So really games are a better price v time then other medias (and im not even considering the overly price snacks and such). Even a dvd costs 20 bucks for 2 hours. Then to get the same amount of time you would have to watch it 7+ times of the exact same thing... So Id rather pay for a crappy game then a crappy movie.

 

[rhino13]

You know I wouldn't mind seeing all the console games tank, just so developers would come back to the PC.

Sadly, piracy on the PC will always be worse, it's just easier.

It seems that a lot of people on this forum think that stealing is justified for one reason or another. It's like if people can think up a reason why they wouldn't buy the game, they are "totally justified" in stealing it

 

[Guest]

And that is one of the (many) main problems with the DMCA, how come some law, suddenly, with the sole purpose of [dubiously] guaranteeing the profits of multi-million empires, ruin what copyright stands for and prevent fair use and goes contrary to the public interest?

http/loudenvier.blogspot.com/2010/11/piracy-last-stand-of-reason.html

 

[ericburnby]

kathiki and shin0bi272

Ah, yes, the old piracy argument of "being able to try a game before wasting money" or "make games/software that doesn't suck" crap again. Another common argument used by all you asshole thieves to justify stealing.

Here's an idea. Why not google the game to read a few reviews? The console market is huge and as such there are a ton of good sites you can use to judge a products quality. I've never bought a game I regretted simply because I took the time to read about it first to see if I'd like it.

And yes, I might be a bit harsh, but I'm a software developer and hate pricks who copy someone elses hard work. If any of you ever actually developed/created something then maybe you'd understand.

 

[kingnoobe]

Prove that I was gonna buy you're crap in the first place eric. God that lame ass arguement pisses me off. I'm not taking your car, your wallet, or anything of a pysical possesion. So you still have it and can make money off of it buy selling it to people who like it.

If the software is good I do buy it. Even windows. But I'll be damned if I don't try them out first. Just like I tried out windows xp before I bought it. I used it for a few months then bought it. Of course with win7 I didn't have to do this because they did something smart. They let me try out the full version with no bullshit, for a long time.

Modding also has legit back up purposes. I'm here in afghan do you realize how bad dust/dirt can be on cd's even for one day that you forget to but it back in the cover. Also lets see kids and animals can be pretty harsh on cds to. So until they start making it their games with lifetime warranties I will keep backing up my stuff. (Which is why I have no problem with buying games from steam not to mention their great deals).

 

[bill gates is your daddy]

[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom]its like saying hes guilty till proven innocent[/citation]

Welcome to the new America.

 

[K-zon]

I think what some of the bigger problems are is resells. If you take a product then mod it and resell at as the original product, you are selling a fruadulent product. Also in terms of some srvices agreements to evenhave it fixed outside warranty, cant be done without knowing whats mods have be done. Also on the fact of pirated games in such, applying mods to get them to work could also be in the preventionof releases needed for additional hardware needs. Or more importantly, using hardware for software not needed, creating a faulty product. You now must go and buy or pirate the right stuff, again. Also, if anything of worth is found within the modding that is practical comes into terms of agreements on copyright and trademarks and the allowance to do so. The problem has always been the use of mods in say standard products. The products are basically designed for no allowance of such. Then also, why does anyone have to deal with the issue for the sack of it, given the product or release may suit others just fine?

And in terms of public interest until and interest is found is probably the same way. There is always going to be piracy for some reason rather small or big and needs for say DRM uses and pervention. Cause for the most part its about money, even with free pirated stuff, cause you normally probably dont even get what you are really looking for. without having to pay the extra for it. And then when just buying it outright, its too expensive to keep the means of pirating or copyright infringement out of it. Cause even within copyright infringements and trademarks, there are ways to not violate those and etc. But have gotten more rooted out over the yrs.

 

[descendency]

[citation][nom]nick8191[/nom]Don't look at a small sample of people then make a gross generalization.[/citation]
It's the majority of console modifiers that pirate games, not the minority.

 

[eyemaster]

What about the console I modded by smashing it to pieces? Am I going to get sued for that too?

 

[HolyCrusader]

In the years I've been been selling or servicing computers and gaming systems, I've yet to see a single person using a modded console for a purpose other than for pirating software. It's not to say there isn't legit reasons to do so (legit backups of software, for instance), but with the myriad of ways to misuse the legitimate functions, it's no wonder that the console makers hate Modded systems with such a passion.

For the record, I'm a legit user of software - mostly for the PC. I watch software reviews before purchasing, and for what I do buy, I usually wait until it's on special from one of the myriad of vendors that sell software (usually via Digital Downloads, so I essentially do have a backup should I ever need it). I take a very dim view of pirates, because in the distant past, I have had code stolen for me - time and energy spent on a project that I got zero money for.

So do we blame the software\\console manufacturers for draconian copy protection systems and litigation, or do we blame the pirates that come-up with whatever rationale to justify their illegal actions?

 

[bill gates is your daddy]

http/www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/xbox-judge-riled/