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General Laptop Advice From An Old Pro.

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Klosteral

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All these things here are really entrance-level laptops. I was wondering if you could offer an opinion on my choice of a relatively high end laptop for that kind of processing.

Laptop: ASUS G51JX-HD-SX232V ($1639)
i7-720 Quad-Core (1.73GHz-2.93GHz)
6GB DDR3 1366MHz RAM
500GB 7200RPM SATA HDD
nVidea GTS360M 1GB
Windows 7 64-but

What am I going to use it for is:
Music making (with Cubais and a high-end Yamaha keyboard)
Gaming - at LANs and at friend's places - (Modern Warfare 2, Star Craft 2, Black-Ops, Just Cause 2, Fallout New Vegas, etc)
On-the-move video watching
Document processing and web browsing while on the move

EDIT: This is my desktop for comparison. I can run most of my games with this on high-graphics (but not max) and I cannot really run Black-Ops smoothly.

Desktop: Custom* ($700)
E6300 Dual-Core (2.8GHz, overclocked to 3.1GHz)
4GB DDR3 1066MHz RAM
2 x 500GB 7200RPM HDDs
nVidea 9600GT 1GB
Windows 7 32-bit
*I plan to upgrade this to something more powerful about mid-next year. ($2400)

Now tell me, is this laptop overkill or is this the best I will find to suit my needs?

-Klosteral
 

zhakar

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thanks for the notes on the battery life. i never would have thought running a lithium down to 0 and back would actually decrease its life span.
 

Avro Arrow

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Document processing, watching videos, making music... these are all simple tasks for most machines. The thing that really makes this baby tick is that GTS 360M. That's a class 1 mobile GPU and your games will really fly. That machine will play pretty much whatever games you can throw at it with very good frame rates. It is a bit overkill but with the high-end games you like to play it's perfect as long as it fits your budget. I don't know why you'd want to spend $2400 on a gaming dekstop though, THAT is definitely overkill. A gaming desktop that plays every game under the sun with perfect frame rates shouldn't cost more than $1000. As for the laptop, if it fits in your budget, go for it. To give you a true honest opinion though, I'd have to know what the price is. I can tell you that if it's an Alienware, it's too expensive because you can find many non-Alienware laptops with the same specs for less. How much is that little monster going to set you back? :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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You're welcome. Yeah, most people don't realise that and when I was looking through Yahoo Answers I was seeing a lot of people thinking that cycling the battery was not only not bad for it but they were thinking it was necessary! I actually only slipped in the battery myth the other day because I realised that I had forgotten to put it in there. The post was originally about making a choice with a purchase but the way the battery is treated is a pretty important part of laptop maintenance so I added it. :sol:

Here's the 411 on Lithium Battery Maintenance:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
 

DellorLenovo

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Interesting stuff here.
What are your thoughts on "business" laptops?
Are they worth the extra cost?
Are they more reliable do you think?
I'm going to replace my 5 year old Dell Latitude (Not one problem ever) and am looking at another Latitude or a ThinkPad T510. Surprisingly the ThinkPad works out cheaper than the Latitude, whereas 5 years ago it was definitely the other way around.
 

Avro Arrow

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It's funny you should mention the Dell Latitude because I still have my old Dell Latitude C610 with a Pentium-III in it. It was made in 2001 and still works although it's physically falling apart so I use it for my magic jack.

Honestly, I don't really think that there is such a thing as a "business laptop" anymore. I mean, laptops have become not so application-oriented anymore with the exception of gaming laptops. I think that this is because with the exception of high-graphics requirements of games (and video encoding), software has fallen far behind hardware as far as advancement is concerned. Software has become stagnant and business applications are the perfect example of that. For instance, my old Dell Laptop which originally came with Win2000 (I replaced it with XP Pro) can run MS-Office 2007 with no problems. Business applications are primarily text-based and haven't changed much in the last 15 years. MS-Word, for instance, still looks more or less the same today as it did on Windows 95. I can do (and did) an entire powerpoint presentation for University on my eMachines E620 which only has an AMD Athlon 64 2650e running at 1.6GHz with a primitive ATi Radeon X1200 GPU. You can read the rest of the specs earlier on in this thread. That ThinkPad T510 would be a real waste of money because for business apps, you would never notice a difference between the performance of that machine and that of a cheap laptop costing only $500. Business laptops today sometimes have special security features like facial recognition (which has a rather dubious track record) or the fingerprint scanner. If you expect to have a ton of sensitive information on the laptop, it may be worth it but for most situations, it's one of those bells and whistles that few people ever actually use. Honestly, I don't think I could be bothered with it. Now, if you're going to be doing office presentations in HD on a projector and want to use HDMI, then of course you'd get a laptop with an HDMI output. In most cases though, a powerpoint presentation is not done in HD and probably never will be because the whole concept of the powerpoint presentation is to get an idea across and HD doesn't really help in that unless you're trying to sell a graphics engine in which case, it's a gaming laptop that you'd want. Some people feel that in business, the type of laptop you carry affects how people perceive you (As stupid as that is, I can see that being true). If you want to look successful, you have to have an expensive laptop just as you need an expensive suit, car or watch. In recent times however, I think that the way you are perceived in a business environment would be aided by a no-nonsense approach that isn't wasteful of valuable resources ($$$). In that manner, having a laptop that is good enough to do the job but cheap enough to help the bottom line might make you appear intelligent, appropriately frugal and good at making financial decisions. If it were me in your shoes, I'd most likely get a mainstream laptop around $500 with an emphasis on hard drive space and battery life. I think that a 14"-16" screen would be a good size to get a good balance of display quality and portability (bigger screen laptops are bigger, heavier and less portable). I'd get a dual-core CPU of some kind like an Athlon II X2, Pentium Dual-Core or i3 without worrying too much about the GPU (unless you want to play some games to relieve stress in between meetings/presentations) and I'd want a webcam and mic built into it for videoconferencing. That's an ideal situation, balancing cost with efficiency and convenience because in the real world, for most business applications, you can get by just fine with a netbook. The drawbacks to that are of course the small screen and keyboard but the advantage is long battery life and you can keep it in your suit's inside pocket. From a reliability standpoint, I think they're no better or worse than any other. Hell, I've dropped my E620 at least 5 times, it still works perfectly and it cost me only $310CAD in July of 2009. I'd widen my scope to include all brands, not just Dell and IBM(Lenovo). There are great products from Acer (including eMachines, Gateway and Packard-Bell), HP (including Compaq), Lenovo, Dell, Fujitsu, ASUS, MSI, etc. I think you would be remiss to actually care what the brand is. My advice with laptops is the same as my advice with everything else. Get what you need and no more. Imagine you're going to buy a video card. Do you care if it's MSI, ASUS, Sapphire, Powercolor or Palit? With obvious exceptions like XFX, EVGA, Zotac and Sparkle that offer lifetime warranties (which doesn't apply to laptops), nobody really cares what brand of video card they have as long as it has that lovely "GeForce GTX 580" or "Radeon HD 5970" on the box. I know this is a long and wordy answer but that question was a good one and there are so many correct answers to it. If this answer leaves you more confused than before, shoot me a private message with what you do for a living and what you need to do with the laptop and I'll be able to help you further. :sol:
 

DellorLenovo

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Ha Ha. last time I wore a suit was when i got married 20 years ago.

I travel a lot and take my laptop on site so it needs to be robust. I use it for CAD/Office apps at work and for entertainment in the evening in my hotel room. The odd game sometimes and some Photoshop/Premiere stuff. I need a 1600 x 900 x 15" screen, at least, for the CAD stuff. 1920 x 1080 x 17" would be great but it's too heavy for airline cabin baggage with all my other bits as well.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. There's so much ignorance on many of these forums.


 

Avro Arrow

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You're very welcome. Now that I hear CAD and 1600x900x15.6", I know that the T510 is the one you must get. The nVidia Quadro on that laptop makes it essentially a mobile graphics workstation. You have one of the 0.1% of occupations that actually REQUIRES powerful graphics. Just remember, back when Dell Latitudes and IBM ThinkPads dominated the high-end laptop landscape and seemed to be invincible, those laptops were made in Japan or the USA, not China (I know my Dell was). The ThinkPad may look the same but it's not an IBM anymore, it's a Lenovo. Lenovo is Chinese and their laptops are made in China/Taiwan (like all the others). I applaud you however, your requirements are a tough nut to crack in the laptop market and through good research and sound reasoning you found one that will do the job for under $1,500. I couldn't find anything more suited to your needs myself. :sol:
 

DellorLenovo

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I know, I know and it's a big problem and I really hate buying stuff that's made there but it's hard to find anything these days that's not made in China :(
Now if only the Germans started to make laptops and built them as well as they build their cars...
 

Klosteral

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I need to spend more because I do not just want to run games, I want to run them on the highest settings I can. My desktop (built mid 2009) cannot handle CoD: Black Ops and only runs Star Craft 2 on medium, thus making it almost redundant.

I am an Australian so all above prices are in Australian Dollars. This is equal to the USD but we are forced to pay more because of both GST and import duties (retailers pay this so we pay more.)

My laptop alternative is an ASUS G53JW for $1850 which has the same specifications as the G51JX, different only by its core i7-740 CPU and nVidea GTX 460M GPU.

Thanks for your opinions,
-Klosteral
 

Avro Arrow

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Well I'll be honest with you my fellow commonwealther, if I were you, I'd be upgrading my desktop, not blowing money on a high-end laptop. For $500 max you could turn your desktop PC into a gaming monster. Check out skycomp.com.au and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you need any help I'd be glad to give it to you. Truth be told, I'm much more of a desktop guy than a laptop guy since I've used x86-based desktops since I was 8 years old and did my first build when I was 12. :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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Yeah that's true but the problem is that they'd be about as expensive as their cars and most people don't hold onto a laptop that long because they become outdated rather quickly. :sol:
 

Klosteral

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The reason I am reluctant to upgrade my computer is because I would loose everything on it and would be forced to re-download half my stuff in the 64 bit version. The 32-bit or x86 versions restrict the computer to use a total 3200MB of RAM which - understandably - effects gaming.

Are you saying I should spend only $1400-$1500 on a laptop (but I still want it to play games on relatively good settings) and use the other $300-$400 to upgrade my desktop?

-Klosteral
 

DellorLenovo

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I don't understand your thinking here... upgrading does not mean going to 64 bit. All that will do is allow you to use more RAM (more than 4GB is not that much of an improvement for many apps - Photoshop being a notable exception) and improve the performance of some (not many) applications that are optimised for 64 bit.
You could however, get a new graphics card and see a big improvement - much better than adding more RAM. That 9600gt is a virtual antique these days - nearly 3 years old!
If you did want to go further and get a new motherboard and cpu as well, I think all you would need to do would be to install the new motherboard drivers.
 

Avro Arrow

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What I'm saying is that you don't need to have a gaming laptop at all. I have my gaming monster desktop computer and I only have my laptop for simpler things when I'm out and about. You don't need to upgrade your motherboard from what I can see there, a video card and a CPU is all you need to make your computer into a monster. Check this out:
Video Card:
http://www.skycomp.com.au/item/SAPPHIRE-HD5850-1GB-256Bit-GDDR5-PCIE-2-DVI-HDMI-DSP-DX11-VaporX-Overclocked.aspx
CPU:
http://www.skycomp.com.au/item/INTEL-CORE-2-QUAD-Q9505-2-83GHz-6MB-CACHE-1333FSB-LGA775.aspx
That would make a gaming monster of your computer for certain. That is all you need to play whatever you want at whatever settings you want. You can overclock the Core2Quad even higher than the Core2Duo and all you have to do to change the CPU is drop it in. That way, there's no drivers to change. That video card is 4-6x more powerful than the one you currently have. The only thing you need to make sure of is that you have a 500W power supply. Your motherboard is fine, so is your RAM, your hard drives, your optical drives and is your OS, so why change them? Those two simple upgrades costing $525 incl. GST will make your desktop more powerful than even a $2000 gaming laptop. This is why I say that it's not a good idea to spend a lot of money on laptops, you cannot upgrade them simply and cheaply. A high-end laptop also tends to generate enormous amounts of heat which shortens its useful life. I can guarantee you that these two changes to your desktop configuration will make you not only decide that you don't need an expensive laptop, but that you don't need to spend $2400 on a new desktop later. Why buy a whole new computer when you can make your computer new for a fraction of the price? :sol:
 

Avro Arrow

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Sure, any Radeon HD 5850 will do the trick although the Vapor-X is renowned for its cooling and overclocking properties. The only problem with the one you selected is that it says they don't have any. The CPU is less powerful and overclocking it won't bring it up to the Q9505's level because it only has 4MB of cache instead of 6. Either one will work just fine however. That laptop will be perfect for gaming as well, that Radeon HD 5730 is a really good GPU so yeah, if you can fit all of that into your budget, go for it. It's a lot better than the over $3000 you were looking at before. To be 100% honest with you though, I'd change the CPU on your desktop last. That Core2Duo at 3.1GHz will probably be just fine for at least another year. Get the video card first and see how it runs, I'm pretty sure that you'll forgo the CPU and will be very satisfied. There are still very few games that use more than 2 cores and I don't see that trend changing much in the next 12 months. :sol:
 

Klosteral

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I chose the 5850 because I looked at some graphics card comparisons and was using the 5850 as a benchmark for finding better cards. Then I realised, the 5850 WAS the better card :D

There are actually many games that use more than 2 cores now; the 2 most recent Call of Duty games, Medal of Honor, Need For Speed and a couple others are known to perform better with quad-core CPUs. Apparently Black ops ONLY runs with quad-cores (my 3GHz Dual Core cannot handle it)

I showed you those websites to indicate where I would be getting the stuff from and the prices, I do not plan to buy anything until late January so they have plenty of time to stock up.

Thanks for all your help,
-Klosteral
 

bobehill

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Thanks for the reasoned, consumer-conscious discussion. I am going to show it to my daughters and wife, not that they will change their attitudes.

I have a question you might be able to help me with. My daughter is a freshman in college and has an "old" (three years) laptop (specs below) she complains about, but when I pin her down, it does everything she needs it for - it just doesn't look like a new Macbook (hate Intel? don't get me started About apple...). However, she says it seems slow, and I promised to fix it up over break. She mainly does web stuff (read facebook) and occasional schoolwork with MS Office.

After 3 years there OS is probably clogged with junk, I plan to back up her data and do a reinstall.

If it still seems too slow I have 3 possible upgrades, and I would like your update on whether they will result in a noticeable performance improvement for her uses:

1. Get a wireless N usb card. Probably about $30, maybe $20 on sale

2. Upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM (max) about $50

4. Upgrade from 80GB 5400 rpm to new gen HDD, probably 320gb, 7200rpm, 16gb cache, about $60-$80.

At this point I have spent $150 on upgrades on a $400 laptop. Does it make sense? The other way to look at it is I have saved $350 on the cost of a new laptop.

The question is whether it would be a dramatic improvement - what do you think?

The specs are as follows:

Product Name Compaq C571NR
Product Number GF572UA#ABA
Microprocessor 1.73 GHz Intel® Pentium® Dual Core processor T2080
Microprocessor Cache 1 MB L2 Cache
Memory 1024 MB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
Video Graphics Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 (shared)
Video Memory Up to 224 MB
Hard Drive 80 GB (5400 RPM) Hard Drive (SATA)
Multimedia Drive Super Multi 8X DVD±R/RW with Double Layer Support
Display 15.4" WXGA High-Definition BrightView Widescreen (1280 x 800) Display
Fax/Modem High speed 56k modem
Network Card Integrated 10/100BASE-T Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 connector)
Wireless Connectivity 802.11b/g WLAN
Sound Altec Lansing
Keyboard 101-key compatible
Pointing Device Touch Pad with dedicated vertical and horizontal Scroll Up/Down pad
External Ports
3 Universal Serial Bus USB 2.0
1 VGA (15-pin)
1 RJ-11 (modem)
1 TV-Out (S-video)
1 RJ -45 (LAN)
1 headphone-out
1 microphone-in
Dimensions 14.1"(L) x 10.2" (W) 1.38" (min H) /1.77"(max H)
Weight 6.6 lbs
Product Specifications