Germany Tightens Censorship Noose Around Game Violence

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]The real problem is all the over 18 adults that let their kids play 18+ video games.[/citation]
Remember that what is rated 18+ in Germany is probably rated 15+ everywhere else. They run a very strict ratings system.[citation]
nom]69camaroSS[/nom]There is a reason they have that rating, and it is because violent video games desensitize young people toward violence, which is never a good thing for a hormonally driven, easily offended teenager.[/citation]
Just like the Muslim comments, this is just another stereotypical response. It is very true that a portion of teenagers are hormonally-driven, irrational morons, but not all of them are. I for one think that there are many easily "offended" middle-aged people around as well. Just look at the incidences of road rage over completely insignificant issues like wasting a whole 5 seconds of your life behind another car.

I for one play many shooters, in fact I play shooters almost exclusively. I can't stand real violence. Reichart put it quite well, except it is impulsive hysteria.

 

[randomizer]

(Fixed up the quoting, really need an edit function though)

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]The real problem is all the over 18 adults that let their kids play 18+ video games.[/citation]
Remember that what is rated 18+ in Germany is probably rated 15+ everywhere else. They run a very strict ratings system.[citation]
[nom]69camaroSS[/nom]There is a reason they have that rating, and it is because violent video games desensitize young people toward violence, which is never a good thing for a hormonally driven, easily offended teenager.[/citation]
Just like the Muslim comments, this is just another stereotypical response. It is very true that a portion of teenagers are hormonally-driven, irrational morons, but not all of them are. I for one think that there are many easily "offended" middle-aged people around as well. Just look at the incidences of road rage over completely insignificant issues like wasting a whole 5 seconds of your life behind another car.

I for one play many shooters, in fact I play shooters almost exclusively. I can't stand real violence. Reichart put it quite well, except it is impulsive hysteria.

 

[randomizer]

Gah I hate this comment system, it just never works right. Edit function so we can at least keep trying till we get lucky, please!

 

[physx7]

[citation][nom]teh_boxzor[/nom]first of all that comment about muslims was uncalled for. I myself am not muslim and still think that that comment was stupid and very prejudiced.[/citation]

Technically, so were the comments about the churches. How do you see that comment as stupid and prejudice, but not the one about churches? Or do you?

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]physx7[/nom]Technically, so were the comments about the churches. How do you see that comment as stupid and prejudice, but not the one about churches? Or do you?[/citation]
That was a single comment, whereas as soon as Muslims are mentioned you get a whole stream of posts about it. But it is just as predjudiced nonetheless.

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]physx7[/nom]Technically, so were the comments about the churches. How do you see that comment as stupid and prejudice, but not the one about churches? Or do you?[/citation]
There is a difference between dislike, and ignorant hate. The comment about churches didn't display any ignorant hate (although the poster may have some, he didn't show it), but the comment about Muslims did. It was just a bunch of stereotypical bull.

 

[magicandy]

"Borders on"? It IS impulsive hysteria.

 

[the seal]

There's another perspective of the problem.

Personally, I don't thinks that's the violence itself is the origin of the problem, but the very artificial fact that it is view on the only perspective of the perpetrator, and not of the waste which result of it.

Secondly, raw pultions management is the real pleasure origin and usefulness in those games. If those pultions are not managed (and actual teens are full of it), they become raw stress which is also destructive. So is it clever to put a ban on the others non destructive raw pultion management tools [like sex] as they do?

 

[the seal]

There's another perspective of the problem.

Personally, I don't thinks that's the violence itself is the origin of the problem, but the very artificial fact that it is view on the only perspective of the perpetrator, and not of the waste which result of it.

Secondly, raw pultions management is the real pleasure origin and usefulness in those games. If those pultions are not managed (and actual teens are full of it), they become raw stress which is also destructive. So is it clever to put a ban on the others non destructive raw pultion management tools [like sex] as they do?

 

[TrueMarine]

Germany has been crazy like this since WWII with the ending of the NAZI's. The government has had total control and do what ever they want at any given time. If you apply the freedom of the United States to the recipe. This is a complete control of freedom of speech and expression. If you side with the government you are probably a communist and would love to live in a padded room and treated like a dog. I for one enjoy my freedom and am willing to kill and die for it.

 

[69camaroSS]

[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]Both stealing and killing affect a non-consenting party. The fact of the matter is, everyone is consenting in this case. No one is being harmed against their will.Setting social guidelines is exactly what totalitarianism does. They tell you what is, and isn't social acceptable, then make it a punishable offense. The government shouldn't tell me what I can and cannot do socially.If you believe that, you really don't know what freedom is.They don't believe I should have the freedom to buy specific products. No matter what the reason, they are still taking away my freedoms by banning them.[/citation]
How about speeding? I guess we should be able to drive as fast as we want whenever we want. Again, silly. That would create negative consequences for everyone, just like exposing our minds to violence constantly.

Elected governments are given the right to make these decisions for their people. That is why they are there, to defend basic freedoms by limiting silly ones. There is no such thing as total freedom until you die. There is always a trade-off, a submission to law or rule. If not an elected government, then one run by fear or might or maybe even guilt.

So, instead of attacking their right to choose which was given to them by their people, why don't you actually discuss the issue and realize you simply disagree with their view on proper limits. Don't make them into evil dictating enemies. Show some evidence that violent video games don't have negative consequences. Prove them wrong. Don't just try to silence those you disagree with by calling them names and shouting at them.

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]How about speeding? I guess we should be able to drive as fast as we want whenever we want.[/citation]
Speeding increases the likelihood of harming a non-consenting party.

I have a feeling I'm going to be repeating myself quite a bit.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]That would create negative consequences for everyone, just like exposing our minds to violence constantly.[/citation]
You mean like how the News does everyday? Or reviewing history? Or better yet, living life? Every few days I see a dead animal on the road, or the side of the road.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Elected governments are given the right to make these decisions for their people. That is why they are there, to defend basic freedoms by limiting silly ones.[/citation]
"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither" -Benjamin Franklin

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]why don't you actually discuss the issue and realize you simply disagree with their view on proper limits[/citation]
If you'd like to simplify it to that.

It's wrong to censor expression. Do you think we should censor other famous art because of it's contents? It's one thing to say what's appropriate for certain ages, but to ban it is insane.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Don't make them into evil dictating enemies. Show some evidence that violent video games don't have negative consequences.[/citation]
When you make a claim, it's not my responsibility to prove you wrong, it's your responsibility to prove yourself right.

I'd love to hear about some studies that prove that violent video games cause a violent reaction from user more than any other form of media.

 

[69camaroSS]

[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]Speeding increases the likelihood of harming a non-consenting party.I have a feeling I'm going to be repeating myself quite a bit.You mean like how the News does everyday? Or reviewing history? Or better yet, living life? Every few days I see a dead animal on the road, or the side of the road."Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither" -Benjamin FranklinIf you'd like to simplify it to that.It's wrong to censor expression. Do you think we should censor other famous art because of it's contents? It's one thing to say what's appropriate for certain ages, but to ban it is insane.When you make a claim, it's not my responsibility to prove you wrong, it's your responsibility to prove yourself right.I'd love to hear about some studies that prove that violent video games cause a violent reaction from user more than any other form of media.[/citation]
The news shows violence as it truly is. Video games do not. People do not respawn when they die, they die. Some people would argue that to want to bury your head in senseless violence is insane.

If exposing youth to violence triggers psychotic tendencies in children, youth or adults, then non-consenting parties are hurt. That is the argument being made. Obviously, you do not accept the cause and effect relationship that Germany's government is trying to make a case for. Again, it boils down to a simple debate and has nothing to do with tyranny and evil dictators trying to take your rights away. They see non-consenting parties as being hurt, and you disagree with their interpretation of the facts.

Again, I'm not trying to prove anything except for the fact that if you want to change a law, do it logically and systematically. Attack the reason and logic behind the law, not the law-makers who are trying to respond to a tragic loss in their country. Stirring up anger and paranoid fantasies doesn't ever change anything for the better.

As for me, I would give up playing video games altogether, if I knew it would save just one child from death. I won't die for the right to play video games, nor would I want anyone else to. THAT WOULD BE SILLY!

Video games are a fantasy form of entertainment, not a human right. And if you think they are a human right, maybe you should spend the rest of your life working for the OLPC program and make sure that all the starving kids in Africa can play Halo 3 using their wind-up computers.

 

[69camaroSS]

"According the American Psychological Association, violent video games can increase children's aggression. Dr. Phil explains, "The number one negative effect is they tend to inappropriately resolve anxiety by externalizing it. So when kids have anxiety, which they do, instead of soothing themselves, calming themselves, talking about it, expressing it to someone, or even expressing it emotionally by crying, they tend to externalize it. They can attack something, they can kick a wall, they can be mean to a dog or a pet." Additionally, there's an increased frequency of violent responses from children who play these kinds of video games."

 

[69camaroSS]

There is a lot of evidence if you actually want to know the truth.

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]The news shows violence as it truly is.[/citation]
Does it? I'm easily desensitized to death by the News. They don't always identify with the people killed, instead treating them as a statistic as a number. I don't see how that's any different from a frag count. Neither one identifies any gravitas.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Video games do not. People do not respawn when they die, they die.[/citation]
In quite a few games, people don't respawn when they die, they die. There are plenty of games out there with character development and depth that gives a lot more meaning to actions. Some games may trivialize it, but how it that different from any other media?

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]If exposing youth to violence triggers psychotic tendencies in children, youth or adults, then non-consenting parties are hurt.[/citation]
I don't remember hearing about 10 million psychotic breaks after the release of Grand Theft Auto 4.

The fact of the matter is, the people who have psychotic breaks don't have mental problems because of video games. A game my exacerbate severe mental problems, but that's what a rating system is for. If something that is essentially part of human life causes you to lose touch with reality, then you shouldn't living in society.

People who have psychotic breaks so easily shouldn't be out and about. Children who have psychotic breaks shouldn't be able to get these product if they have responsible parents.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Obviously, you do not accept the cause and effect relationship that Germany's government is trying to make a case for.[/citation]
That all of their citizens are to stupid to deal with violence of any sort?

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]They see non-consenting parties as being hurt, and you disagree with their interpretation of the facts.[/citation]
What facts? That school shootings happen when kids get bullied, and ignored, then people point the finger at everyone except themselves? Psychotic children shouldn't be playing violent video games.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]"According the American Psychological Association, violent video games can increase children's aggression. Dr. Phil explains, "The number one negative effect is they tend to inappropriately resolve anxiety by externalizing it. So when kids have anxiety, which they do, instead of soothing themselves, calming themselves, talking about it, expressing it to someone, or even expressing it emotionally by crying, they tend to externalize it. They can attack something, they can kick a wall, they can be mean to a dog or a pet." Additionally, there's an increased frequency of violent responses from children who play these kinds of video games."[/citation]
These products aren't appropriate for children. That's the point of the rating system. If this were just about children, I wouldn't care. But this about my freedom as an adult consumer, and the freedom of developers to express themselves how they please.

 

[pocketdrummer]

This isn't a matter of censorship, really...

It has everything to do with society's inability to pinpoint the cause of human behavior. People find outlets for their aggression in many different activities. Movies, games, and music tend to be the focal point of the media (ironically). But, murder has been around for centuries! Cave men murdered other cave men, and I guarantee it wasn't over counter-strike. Likewise, before video games even existed, there were gangs, mafia, and "regular" everyday killers.

Movies, music, and games don't create killers. These people would have done it anyway, even if they had clung to football as opposed to a game. No mentally fit individual would kill another human being simply from playing a video game. There are external, human influences that trigger this kind of behavior. We cannot allow ourselves to be so naive.

 

[whiz]

In ancient times, children sometimes were forced to see acts of violence as a part of their day-to-day lives. Raids, war, HUNTING, violent games - They saw death and knew the value of life. A stuck up kid that only goes where his parents were told he should go, and only does things the way their parents and the rest of the social stigma implies it should do, raises a person with no respect for life. Can you believe how powerless must've that kid felt, to say "F*k it there's nothing better to do with my life anyway." to himself?

And you blame video games. And of all - CS? Every second dude that's half-touched a PC ever plays CS. But that wasn't my point at all.

 

[whiz]

Just to pass some information regarding, psychotic people - Austria (where i currently live) increased the requirements for hospitalising mentally ill patients some while ago. Now the streets are really crawling with crazy people.


They don't dive a shit.

 

[whiz]

[citation] Video games are a fantasy form of entertainment, not a human right. And if you think they are a human right, maybe you should spend the rest of your life working for the OLPC program and make sure that all the starving kids in Africa can play Halo 3 using their wind-up computers.[/citation]

Video games are just as much of a human right as reading books.