GM Prepares for Bankruptcy; Borrows Another $4B

[fooldog01]

Wow. This thread got out of hand in a hurry. Why exactly is this news being posted on Tom's anyway? Serious question.

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]UR_a_retard[/nom]@Chripuck: It was the Republican congress who repealed the Glassner-Steagall Act, which was put in place after the Great Depression. It was the product of vast amounts of research into WHY the Great Depression happened. Fast forward to the 90s/00s, where the Gingrich/Limbaugh/Bush Republicans feel that the rich ought not be subjected to regulation and laws. Look at the average salary of a CEO, when Reagan took office, it was 40x the salary of an average employee at the same company. Now it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 500x the average salary of an employee at the same company. Cleary the "Grand Old Party(of greed and stupidity)" are squarely to blame for this mess.[/citation]

The Graham Leach Bliley act was meant to open up financial institutions ability to own other financial institutions ala BOA buying up Merril Lynch.

By the way it passed the senate 90-8-1, the house 362-57 and democratic president Bill Clinton signed it into law, so even if it was to blame, it was as much the Democrats as Republicans.

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]joeman42[/nom]Ridiculously uninformed. The money is being spent, perhaps futilely, to preserve the jobs and the segment of the economy that depends on auto production. Remember, if they are out of jobs, they don't pay taxes (and consume unemployment and other services). The cost of negligence would be magnitudes greater, and permanent if they industry dies. Blame the previous administration for profiteering and incompetent oversight for allowing the conditions to develop when it could have been prevented.[/citation]

How? By making them by law make more fuel efficient vehicles? By requiring them to spend their money a certain way? This isn't the USSR, companies are allowed to spend their money as they see fit. If they spend it wrong they fail and that's what is happenning here.

Maybe if they fail the UAW's gestapo grasp will actually loosen up abit...

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]EnFoRceR22[/nom]The usless trillians spent in iraq didnt help. If i didnt just wake up i would shell out alot more of that idiot monkeys mistakes but TBH he was a waste on the country. it would be a much shorter list and way easyer to tell me what the dip nut did right and DIDNT do to tank the econemy.[/citation]

Give me 3 examples of what he did wrong to screw up the economy, especially prior to 2005 as you said. I would agree with his last year in office, but that was after the decline had already started.

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]doctorpink[/nom]25 BILLIONS divided to all the people having difficulties paying their house would help much more![/citation]

If you assume 200 million tax paying Americans its $125 a piece, which isn't enough to cover the taxes going to escrow each month, much less make a full mortgage payment one month.

 

[Guest]

@Chipruck: 1 Democrat(Clinton) signs a bill, and therefore it's equally Democrats at fault? Clinton was a closet Republican when it comes to bending over for corporate America, hence NAFTA, etc... I wish we had some liberals in Congress, rather than 2 conservative parties and one that pretends to be liberal to give the illusion of a choice.

I take it you're either a member of the RNC, some kind of intelligence analyst, some kind of corporate espionage employee, or you have GIYUS installed on your PC.

 

[deltatux]

Only if GM would have stopped producing subpar vehicles and paid their workforce a lot more than the competition, they wouldn't be jammed in this pickle. You don't see any European or Asian automakers in a jam like the American auto industry. Granted, this recession was triggered by the housing market, but that still doesn't mean that these automakers should have been arrogant and continually making crappy cars and paying high wages to their labour force.

 

[descendency]

Another 4 billion while we KNOW they are going to go bankrupt?

For what? Chinese Plants? Wake up and let them go bust or we'll pay for the move to China.

 

[cletus_slackjawd]

I fear for the future of America. Chronic short term thinking in corporations and government, lack of values and ethics, people who don't want to be informed or get involved. Before America completely collapses, I'm sure we'll start a war with China so we won't have to pay back all our debt aka Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]SubprimeFanboy[/nom]Thank goodness we loaned them 20 billion a few months back so that they could survive *intense sarcasm*This is like the sub-prime crisis, Bush had successfully wrecked the economy by 2005, so the banks were so kind as to agree to extend huge credit lines to people who couldn't possibly pay it back, in exchange for being bailed out later. Had the banks not done this, we would've had a Soviet-style collapse well before the end of Bush's 2nd term, however, all of our "career politicians" will do anything to stay in power one more day, even if it leaves us much worse off when that day does come...[/citation]
Funny, I seem to remember Clinton and his pals in the 90s enacting and enforcing legislation which forced banks to make a large percentage of their lending to low-income families and minorities.

http/articles.latimes.com/1999/may/31/news/mn-42807?pg=1

Gee whiz! It looks like your precious Clinton "Golden Years" had a few hidden surprises that nobody seemed to notice. Here's a hint: The economy didn't fall apart over night. A lot of the causes of the mess came around well before Bush. Unfortunetely Bush never bothered to improve the situation. Even McCain eventually came out and said that freddie and fannie were in a bad way and something needed to be done, and the democrats waved him off, declaring that freddie and fannie were strong and sound.

Meanwhile in the background George Soros is tugging strings with glee, after his success with the Bank of England he's moved on to a bigger challenge and he's doing quite well.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]Bugermass[/nom]What pisses me off is that GM COULD HAVE been at the forefront.. They had the Saturn EV1 and they puposely abandoned and destroyed any chance for it to grow into somthing more mainstream. Also thanks to the great CARB board for lifting the mandate that set a timeline at which all auto manufacturers were required to have a certain % of electric vehicles.[/citation]You realize that GM wasn't the only one with an electric vehicle, and they werent the only one to scrap it, right? They only did EV because california wanted them to. They sold them at a huge loss! Then when EVs were proven to be less-than-viable with the technology of the era, california (briefly) came to its senses and GM (and other automakers, yes even the japs) got rid of their EV program.

GM also had to scrap all existing EV1s, because there are laws that would force them to provide parts and service for I believe 5 years, and no waiver would hold up in court. They weren't willing to waste any more money in that unsuccessful program.

 

[tank]

My biggest concern is that this isn't capitalism. GM planned poorly so they should disappear and or figure something out other than taking a loan from the government on such huge proportions. So now that the government has got GM by the nose, or whatever you want to say. The government is already dictating policy of fuel efficiency. By 2016 the average of trucks and sedans will be something like 35 MPG. Before GM and other companies kicked and bucked but now they just roll over and say ok, because the government "owns" them in a certain sense. Since when could the government dictate things like that. On top of all of this, their were rumors that the government was going to buy out GM. This isn't a direct buy out but a government agency was in negotiations do such a thing.

What i am worried about is the fact that government is stepping in and doing more and more things. It feels as if we are on our to becoming a socialist country. I agree that their is still alot to happen, but the turn of events definitely unsettles me.

 

[Honis]

To those who think 20 million is overpaid for a CEO...

Usually your pay reflects the impact your decisions can make on the company. When run a multi-billion dollar company, paying the head honcho 20 mil makes sense. Did the GM CEO make some bad decisions? hell yeah he did. Will he ever be a CEO again? nope!

His company was going to die since they begged for $ from the government in the first place. Obama should have let them file chapter 11 6 months ago instead of spending my money on a failing company and them still falling into chapter 11. I was buying a car back then, and when I found out they were getting hand outs, regardless of quality GM fell off my list.

 

[saljr]

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Monday that Germany aims to loosen European unit Opel's ties with troubled parent General Motors Corp. ahead of a possible Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing by GM.

The government says it is up to GM and the U.S. administration to choose an investor, while Germany will decide whether and how to lend financial support.

Opel employs some 25,000 people in Germany, nearly half GM Europe's total work force.

 

[Caffeinecarl]

GM's best hopes are to scrape by until Ford (which is going basically gangbusters compared to the rest of the auto companies) can scoop them up. I'd be up for Ford doing this with both GM and Chrysler, then when the time comes, pay off the anti-trust lawsuits that would inevitably follow and spin them back off on their own... with some good, stable Ford management at the helm!

 

[Guest]

Let them go bankrupt, some over-seas automaker will buy their plants and make cars, even higher the same workers most likely! Just at a much lower cost than the UAW have them at now. I'm ok with any Japanese/Korean/European automaker replacing GM in North America, hell they can replace Chrysler as well... neither have been worth a damn for years.

 

[Guest]

What i am worried about is the fact that government is stepping in and doing more and more things. It feels as if we are on our to becoming a socialist country. I agree that their is still alot to happen, but the turn of events definitely unsettles me.

Considering to how poorly the USA's debt crisis and billion dollar companies going under and taking the entire country with them... let alone your cost of health care etc.
I'd say socialism looks pretty damn good compared to your failing capatalism.

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]ImOn2you[/nom]@Chipruck: 1 Democrat(Clinton) signs a bill, and therefore it's equally Democrats at fault? Clinton was a closet Republican when it comes to bending over for corporate America, hence NAFTA, etc... I wish we had some liberals in Congress, rather than 2 conservative parties and one that pretends to be liberal to give the illusion of a choice.I take it you're either a member of the RNC, some kind of intelligence analyst, some kind of corporate espionage employee, or you have GIYUS installed on your PC.[/citation]

Did you not notice the senate and house votes? Republicans never held over a 55% control of either the house or the senate, even at their peak in the 90's. Therefore in the senate there was at least 35 of the 45 democratic senators who voted for the repeal of the act.

When will you sheeple get it? Democrats and Republicans alike act like they differ so much in public, but in reality there all in this together. Obama will turn out to be no different... look at his first 3 months in office. Not once has that hope he presented during his campaign came out since he won. No, instead he's been gloom and doom for the most part because rather than being a leader he's playing the part of the politician, managing people's expectations.

You can't win the argument that Bush and the republican's ruined this country. I realize the perception in the general public is that, but there is no founded arguments as such. Like I said to another poster, give me 3 precise examples of what Bush and the Republicans did prior to them losing power in 2006 that caused this whole issue...

And don't say the war in Iraq, while I wholey agree that we SHOULDN'T have ever went in, we carried on a cold war for decades with defecit spending and it didn't sink our economy.

 

[chripuck]

[citation][nom]C4N4D1AN[/nom]What i am worried about is the fact that government is stepping in and doing more and more things. It feels as if we are on our to becoming a socialist country. I agree that their is still alot to happen, but the turn of events definitely unsettles me.Considering to how poorly the USA's debt crisis and billion dollar companies going under and taking the entire country with them... let alone your cost of health care etc.I'd say socialism looks pretty damn good compared to your failing capatalism.[/citation]

No offense but you're not making sense there. By assisting these failing companies with tax payer dollars we are embracing socialism. Your proposal of let them fail is actually very pro and very pure capitalism.

So what do you want? The government helping these companies out in a socialistic manner, what's good for one group is best for the country? Or do you think they should fail because they couldn't make a good product e.g. capitalism.

 

[enforcer22]

Actualy chirpuck the econemy was tanking big time at in the 80's till bushs 8 years of terror it was the biggest defacit in american history. Iraq is a perfect argument. We shouldnt be there and its blowing gobs of money for no reason so why not add that to the list? along with the billions (probly trillions) hes barrowing from china just adding to that with compound interest. how about destroying any stability in a region we have investid interest in causing gas prices to sore to $5 a gallon which of course he was in no hurry to put down as his familiy and corperate buddys were making a killing. which btw hurt americans more then most things that have happened causing EVERYTHING to sky rocket in price. What did he do that helped me one bit? the stimulas check? well great a one time what was it $600 ? did make up for the thousands i lost because of that monkey. Was clinton better? who knows really but hell at least when he was in office some kid could get a job at burger king for $10 a hour. Now the same place wont even hire anyone. Is obama better? how the hell would anyone know he hasnt been i office long enough to really do anything. bush was a failure plain and simple i honestly cant think of one thing he did right aside finaly leaving office. but this isnt even the topic of this thread. GM holds tons of jobs in this country do i want it to go under? hell no! managed better ? god yes. stop bailing them out give some corperate welfare reform in here. Regulate thier ass's if you have to. Big companys going under like GM is really bad for this country but having them waste our money isnt good for it either.