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[citation][nom]aaron88_7[/nom]How many times have we read stories of blatant hacking by the Chinese government and our politicians keep acting like they are our best pals? The hackers in China really don't need anonymity and wouldn't really benefit from it.[/citation]
Considering how much US have in debts to China the politicians do what they can. What is the chooice? I dont say its right to hack anyone but what possition do you think US would be in today if China demanded the debts to be paid (As of Nov 2010 it was 1,160 billion dollars!). Sadly screwed either way, the politicians choose the less painful way of getting screwed!
Considering how much US have in debts to China the politicians do what they can. What is the chooice? I dont say its right to hack anyone but what possition do you think US would be in today if China demanded the debts to be paid (As of Nov 2010 it was 1,160 billion dollars!). Sadly screwed either way, the politicians choose the less painful way of getting screwed!
[citation][nom]Cats_Paw[/nom]"You want sony hacked more?" Lol. Anyway, i hope they dont target PCs, consoles are already taking away the gaming manufacturers.[/citation]
PC game sales grow nicely each year, 20% growth last month compared to the year before. The only reason it appears that the consoles grow faster is because steam sales (estimated at about 50-75% of the total pc sales) aren't included in the sales numbers and the retailers shelf space isn't as big due to it. They don't want to promote a platform that are more likely to advance into the future of digital distribution faster making the retail distribution die (much like the retail music industry).
PC game sales grow nicely each year, 20% growth last month compared to the year before. The only reason it appears that the consoles grow faster is because steam sales (estimated at about 50-75% of the total pc sales) aren't included in the sales numbers and the retailers shelf space isn't as big due to it. They don't want to promote a platform that are more likely to advance into the future of digital distribution faster making the retail distribution die (much like the retail music industry).
Thor
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- Jan 5, 2004
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What's happen it's rich control all except the Internet (well not at 100% for now).
So they use their puppets ( politician) to create a lot of hack of web site.
So after that , puppet will say to People, hey Internent is full on "Terrorist"
so we make some law to put a chip inside or your body to be sure you are cool.
And People say: Yes its good.
Same than two tower at NY. Want make laws to spy everybody all time,
How do that? Well build terrorist. If some people die they don't care.
Orwell is small compare to what they come...
So they use their puppets ( politician) to create a lot of hack of web site.
So after that , puppet will say to People, hey Internent is full on "Terrorist"
so we make some law to put a chip inside or your body to be sure you are cool.
And People say: Yes its good.
Same than two tower at NY. Want make laws to spy everybody all time,
How do that? Well build terrorist. If some people die they don't care.
Orwell is small compare to what they come...
[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]Considering how much US have in debts to China the politicians do what they can. What is the chooice? I dont say its right to hack anyone but what possition do you think US would be in today if China demanded the debts to be paid (As of Nov 2010 it was 1,160 billion dollars!). Sadly screwed either way, the politicians choose the less painful way of getting screwed![/citation]
Well if our politicians had any balls they'd know China's growing economy could be hurt much worse if we defaulted on them. We still have bigger guns, let them try to come and collect 😉
Well if our politicians had any balls they'd know China's growing economy could be hurt much worse if we defaulted on them. We still have bigger guns, let them try to come and collect 😉
You can try to defend hacking as much as you like and suggest that they're doing the world some kind of service, but the reality should be that it's never acceptable.
An open door to somebody's house on a warm Summer day isn't an invitation to go inside and steal all of their stuff - just because the door was open.
I actually hope Nintendo get the law involved, just like Sony. What a slap in the face that would be.
An open door to somebody's house on a warm Summer day isn't an invitation to go inside and steal all of their stuff - just because the door was open.
I actually hope Nintendo get the law involved, just like Sony. What a slap in the face that would be.
[citation][nom]WhySoBluePandaBear[/nom]I know, and that's the point. They're paying the wrong people. They need to find these people and pay THEM to hack each other, finding holes and fixing them internally. The people they have hired and pay now, are dumb asses. Allow me to be in charge of the Government security, and I'll find the absolute best in the world, who constantly are working to break our own system. I know they're doing things along those lines now, but apparently they're failing, because some guy from Russia, on a $500 Dell computer from 2004, shouldn't be able to access these systems.[/citation]
Do you have any idea of the work that goes into Network Defense or Penetration Testing? Have you ever heard of the NSA Red Cell aka "Tiger Team"? I guess not.
These guys do exactly what you say they should do. They hack their own systems and patch the holes they find. New exploits are found everyday and patches to these holes are rolled out. Do you think a system can ever be secure? Perhaps if the system in question never has any additional connections being added to the original Campus network or the users of the network don't foolishly click on links in Phishing emails.
But this is inherently impossible as both occur everyday. New, possibly infected, computers are connected that were overseas months before, a flash drive with an inadvertent trojan embedded in it may be plugged in, or someone checking their email gets caught in a Man-in-the-Middle attack.
Plus, when have we been talking about the US Government? This is Sony and Nintendo, not the Pentagon for crying out loud. And secondly as someone previously posted, any good hacker wouldn't tell the person they are hacking what systems they had gone into; that defeats the whole purpose of hacking the target in the first place.
Please do some research before tossing out the blame at people whom you seem to not have any appreciation for what they do.
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
Do you have any idea of the work that goes into Network Defense or Penetration Testing? Have you ever heard of the NSA Red Cell aka "Tiger Team"? I guess not.
These guys do exactly what you say they should do. They hack their own systems and patch the holes they find. New exploits are found everyday and patches to these holes are rolled out. Do you think a system can ever be secure? Perhaps if the system in question never has any additional connections being added to the original Campus network or the users of the network don't foolishly click on links in Phishing emails.
But this is inherently impossible as both occur everyday. New, possibly infected, computers are connected that were overseas months before, a flash drive with an inadvertent trojan embedded in it may be plugged in, or someone checking their email gets caught in a Man-in-the-Middle attack.
Plus, when have we been talking about the US Government? This is Sony and Nintendo, not the Pentagon for crying out loud. And secondly as someone previously posted, any good hacker wouldn't tell the person they are hacking what systems they had gone into; that defeats the whole purpose of hacking the target in the first place.
Please do some research before tossing out the blame at people whom you seem to not have any appreciation for what they do.
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
[citation][nom]WhySoBluePandaBear[/nom]Ok, lemme lay the perspective out as an analogy of my entire argument. You have an Elite US Navy Seal; pretty much some badass who would beat down a group of 5 guys at once. Now you have some fat ass Mcdonalds slob with a large Dr. Pepper that cost $1.00. Mcdonalds slob, who is inferior in every way, beats the shit out of the Elite Navy Seal, who was supposed to be better in every way and have access to FAR more equipment and training. Same situation here. Government or corporation alike, you have beyond more money and buying power to obtain the best. Your best, fails against people who live in a $50,000 house and rely on scamming credit card information to live. It's F'ing pathetic. That's my point slick.[/citation]
I understand where you're coming from now and I agree with you 100%. You are completely right; it is absolutely pathetic that these million (or even billion) dollar corporations or government entities cannot always protect themselves from these no-name Script kiddies, let alone other governments or corporations.
But we don't always hear the whole story when it comes to hacking, nor can we. Perhaps Nintendo or Sony did something not related to GeoHot? Perhaps they had an insider? What if these attacks are meant to serve as a diversion from an even bigger threat? There are thousands of reasons as to why some attacks are published and some aren't. It's all war games.... and it is whoever has infiltrated deeper that will do the most damage...
The Cyber War that will happen in the not-too-distant future is going to be unlike anything this world has ever seen.... I just hope that our financial institutions, governments, and global allies are prepared enough and have the countermeasures to survive through it. Cyber-terrorism is, and will be, a growing threat as the world becomes more and more connected. (see article about World Internet Population at 2 billion).
I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble and I'm not attacking you personally. I personally think cracking is morally and ethically wrong on all sides. It will be up to the White-hats and some gray-hats of current and future generations to protect us from our economic and political demise.
I understand where you're coming from now and I agree with you 100%. You are completely right; it is absolutely pathetic that these million (or even billion) dollar corporations or government entities cannot always protect themselves from these no-name Script kiddies, let alone other governments or corporations.
But we don't always hear the whole story when it comes to hacking, nor can we. Perhaps Nintendo or Sony did something not related to GeoHot? Perhaps they had an insider? What if these attacks are meant to serve as a diversion from an even bigger threat? There are thousands of reasons as to why some attacks are published and some aren't. It's all war games.... and it is whoever has infiltrated deeper that will do the most damage...
The Cyber War that will happen in the not-too-distant future is going to be unlike anything this world has ever seen.... I just hope that our financial institutions, governments, and global allies are prepared enough and have the countermeasures to survive through it. Cyber-terrorism is, and will be, a growing threat as the world becomes more and more connected. (see article about World Internet Population at 2 billion).
I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble and I'm not attacking you personally. I personally think cracking is morally and ethically wrong on all sides. It will be up to the White-hats and some gray-hats of current and future generations to protect us from our economic and political demise.
Yuka
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- May 3, 2007
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There is a thin red line between a "good" hacker and a "bad" hacker. Don't go putting them all in the same bag!
Just remember the word "hack" shouldn't have a bad meaning to it; hackers are people that love changing things on their own (for their own), but with no bad meaning/intentions behind it.
So, I'd say those kiddies of lulz sec are somewhere in the middle. If they ever go out selling the information they get from their hacking, may hell burst on their ars*s their gonads rot slowly; if they just "poke" at those companies security policies and nothing else, they should be spanked, yes, but not hardly condemned IMO. They're actually doing a favor to us consumers telling those bureaucratic big fat companies that fix their stuff ASAP instead of making PR contingency.
For anyone who uses the argument "but they should do it in another way"; yeah sure, try sending an email and wait sitting on your sofa for a fix. Not the best way, but the most efficient without a doubt =/
Cheers!
Just remember the word "hack" shouldn't have a bad meaning to it; hackers are people that love changing things on their own (for their own), but with no bad meaning/intentions behind it.
So, I'd say those kiddies of lulz sec are somewhere in the middle. If they ever go out selling the information they get from their hacking, may hell burst on their ars*s their gonads rot slowly; if they just "poke" at those companies security policies and nothing else, they should be spanked, yes, but not hardly condemned IMO. They're actually doing a favor to us consumers telling those bureaucratic big fat companies that fix their stuff ASAP instead of making PR contingency.
For anyone who uses the argument "but they should do it in another way"; yeah sure, try sending an email and wait sitting on your sofa for a fix. Not the best way, but the most efficient without a doubt =/
Cheers!
guardianangel42
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- Jan 18, 2010
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[citation][nom]captaincharisma[/nom]i guess they are going after xbox live next. god knows how many security holes are in those servers[/citation]
Actually, though I don't disagree with your sentiment, I noticed an interesting Xbox update the other day. I have no idea what it was for but it was a full Xbox update, not a game update or anything like that.
As soon as I logged in to my profile, I had to wait like ten minutes for the update to download and complete.
As I have no idea what the update was for I can only speculate. I just find it interesting that it followed right after Sony's PSN started coming back online.
Maybe MS got a head start on protecting their network while Sony was dealing with its problems.
Also, the comments by Lulzsec just prove they're a bunch of immature hackers out for the publicity. They have a twitter account for god's sake.
Actually, though I don't disagree with your sentiment, I noticed an interesting Xbox update the other day. I have no idea what it was for but it was a full Xbox update, not a game update or anything like that.
As soon as I logged in to my profile, I had to wait like ten minutes for the update to download and complete.
As I have no idea what the update was for I can only speculate. I just find it interesting that it followed right after Sony's PSN started coming back online.
Maybe MS got a head start on protecting their network while Sony was dealing with its problems.
Also, the comments by Lulzsec just prove they're a bunch of immature hackers out for the publicity. They have a twitter account for god's sake.
First of all these guys aren't idiots (will for the most part the guys that work actual network security). They can only do so much.. Hackers will always find a way, some do it just to try and get hired. But like anything else there will always be somebody better that pops up.
If anything you're the idiot for only looking at one variable of the situation. You don't know the work environment/loads, how these hackers managed to do it, or anything of the actual situation other then they were hacked, so they must suck and be complete failures.
If anything you're the idiot for only looking at one variable of the situation. You don't know the work environment/loads, how these hackers managed to do it, or anything of the actual situation other then they were hacked, so they must suck and be complete failures.
O and the whole navy seal vs a fat slob isn't even close to accurate. This would be more like a navy seal against somebody who has been in training for the sole purpose of training for the better part of his life. But chooses not to fight, instead works a regular job doing something he enjoys. They get into it, and the seal loses.. Guess what in real life being a navy seal doesn't automatically mean you can take on any one or anything. But in real life and not in your make believe fantasy world they know this. Also unlike what you may have been told chuck norris's tear wouldn't care cancer.
Not to mention who are to call these guys no names. You probably wouldn't be able to hack through a paper bag. Ever think these guys don't want to be known by you, me, or anybody else for that matter. It's only good business to be know if you're looking for a job, or if you get a major ego. It's just like dealing, it's good not to be known.
Not to mention who are to call these guys no names. You probably wouldn't be able to hack through a paper bag. Ever think these guys don't want to be known by you, me, or anybody else for that matter. It's only good business to be know if you're looking for a job, or if you get a major ego. It's just like dealing, it's good not to be known.
@whysobluepandabear
You seem to make the assumption that this is one hacker, based solely on your navy seal analogy, and that appears to be an incorrect assumption. Given one on one the seal wins every time, given 100 on one with the right equipment and conditions the seal usually wins, given 500 on one and this time the mcdonald's kids are armed and organized the seal fails every time. I seriously doubt this hacker group sat down one night and said "Hey lets hack Sony" and got through on the first try. It took months of planning, failed attempts, chipping away at the firewalls and security systems, learning to avoid intrusion protection devices, and then they hit sony with an organized effort that knew all the holes and weaknesses going in.
Sony is large enough to have a full time 24 hour security staff for every server farm, but the sad truth of the matter is CEO/CFOs typically will only invest heavily into security after the fact. Case in point I once had to reload every signal PC in a customers because his office was infected with a simple but very hard to remove virus. The virus was easy to prevent, install anti-virus software, any anti-virus software, but the owner of this company had never "seen" anti-virus stop anything so he uninstalled it on all his computers a month before. Moral of the story is the people who make the decisions only throw money at things they feel have a tangible benefit and most of these people have no clue what it takes to secure a system. It is obvious that Sony's attitude about about security is different then Nintendo, by the fact that Nintendo fixed the holes as soon as they found them and Sony waited until they were overrun. Attitude reflects leadership.
Lastly the only security policy that gives a true reflection of what it takes to secure a network is accepting the fact that you cannot secure a system against every attack. You can apply every known fix to every known hole in all of your systems and by the time you report to your boss that the system is secured someone will have found a new hole, most likely on some other system, and then try it out on your super secure system just to see if they can. If's like the seal wore full body armor but the kid brought his homemade sonic weapon you cannot predict the future. Every person brings a new perspective every hacker brings a different approach to the same system.
You seem to make the assumption that this is one hacker, based solely on your navy seal analogy, and that appears to be an incorrect assumption. Given one on one the seal wins every time, given 100 on one with the right equipment and conditions the seal usually wins, given 500 on one and this time the mcdonald's kids are armed and organized the seal fails every time. I seriously doubt this hacker group sat down one night and said "Hey lets hack Sony" and got through on the first try. It took months of planning, failed attempts, chipping away at the firewalls and security systems, learning to avoid intrusion protection devices, and then they hit sony with an organized effort that knew all the holes and weaknesses going in.
Sony is large enough to have a full time 24 hour security staff for every server farm, but the sad truth of the matter is CEO/CFOs typically will only invest heavily into security after the fact. Case in point I once had to reload every signal PC in a customers because his office was infected with a simple but very hard to remove virus. The virus was easy to prevent, install anti-virus software, any anti-virus software, but the owner of this company had never "seen" anti-virus stop anything so he uninstalled it on all his computers a month before. Moral of the story is the people who make the decisions only throw money at things they feel have a tangible benefit and most of these people have no clue what it takes to secure a system. It is obvious that Sony's attitude about about security is different then Nintendo, by the fact that Nintendo fixed the holes as soon as they found them and Sony waited until they were overrun. Attitude reflects leadership.
Lastly the only security policy that gives a true reflection of what it takes to secure a network is accepting the fact that you cannot secure a system against every attack. You can apply every known fix to every known hole in all of your systems and by the time you report to your boss that the system is secured someone will have found a new hole, most likely on some other system, and then try it out on your super secure system just to see if they can. If's like the seal wore full body armor but the kid brought his homemade sonic weapon you cannot predict the future. Every person brings a new perspective every hacker brings a different approach to the same system.
[citation][nom]gerchokas[/nom]funny thing is that they put all their efforts and skills to hack gaming related networks, and we never see some bank or some politically powerful company hacked. i wonder what these guys are really up to..[/citation]
Thats actually not true, search for gary mckinnon. Its just that when it does happen these things have a way of going away 😉
Thats actually not true, search for gary mckinnon. Its just that when it does happen these things have a way of going away 😉
[citation][nom]alexkitch[/nom]You can try to defend hacking as much as you like and suggest that they're doing the world some kind of service, but the reality should be that it's never acceptable.An open door to somebody's house on a warm Summer day isn't an invitation to go inside and steal all of their stuff - just because the door was open.I actually hope Nintendo get the law involved, just like Sony. What a slap in the face that would be.[/citation]
And if that house is owned by and evil, nasty person with complete disregard to anyone else (talking about sony here) you will find that most people in that neighbourhood are not sympathetic to their situation.
And if that house is owned by and evil, nasty person with complete disregard to anyone else (talking about sony here) you will find that most people in that neighbourhood are not sympathetic to their situation.
legacy7955
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- May 16, 2011
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I think it is the efforts of and by the Chinese gov't..
Yep. I do think they are sending a message to the US gov't.
The US needs to IMMEDIATELY STOP ALL TRADE WITH CHINA...and restore manufacturing here in the USA.
China---you will lose.
Of course we need to Sh** can all of the US gov't lackies that agreed with ILLEGAL TRADE AGREEMENTS LIKE NAFTA, GATT, AND WTO. I say send them to China and let them live on a dirt floor working 12 hour days 6 days a week.
Yep. I do think they are sending a message to the US gov't.
The US needs to IMMEDIATELY STOP ALL TRADE WITH CHINA...and restore manufacturing here in the USA.
China---you will lose.
Of course we need to Sh** can all of the US gov't lackies that agreed with ILLEGAL TRADE AGREEMENTS LIKE NAFTA, GATT, AND WTO. I say send them to China and let them live on a dirt floor working 12 hour days 6 days a week.
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