HE2005 Show Questions

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Ernst Raedecker <ernstr@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 15 Feb 2005 03:50:17 GMT, "Michael McKelvy" <deskst49@peoplepc.com>
> wrote:

> >True, because accusations of who skipped out on what debate had been going
> >for too long IMO, I wanted it closed.

> Good idea.

> >Hopefully, some people will get an earful of what's wrong with the way audio
> >equipment is reviewed and what can help in the process.

> I quit reading audio equipment reviews, AND (classical) music reviews,
> a long time ago. There are so many aspects involved in audio
> equipment, and so many details make a difference, that it is virtually
> impossible to do a serieus review of some component.

> The same holds true for music reviews.
> I have read many articles claiming that this or that cd is suberb,
> suberb interpretation, suberb recording, etc. And when I order the cd,
> it turns out to be a huge disappointment, because the recording is not
> good at all and the interpretation is bizarre.

> So you have to do the listening yourself.

> >It would be wonderful if more people were exposed to a DBT for example or if

> Given the fact that nobody who is involved with dbt's will ever
> explains what he means by "hearing", the dbt's as they are executed
> are no more than hobby work, nice try.

Indeed? Researchers in psychoacoustics, who certainly employ double-blind
protocols, might disagree with you on that one.

> For a scientist, a physicist, words like "work" and "energy" mean
> something completely different than for the lay man. So the SCIENTIFIC
> meaning of certain words is many times very different from the NAIVE
> meaning.

Indeed. And scientists researching *hearing* use double blind trials
too. As do designers and developers of audio components and software.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

> I would think that Arny would be in hostile territory-no wonder John
> invited him to a debate. Seems like a more fair venue would have been
> better. Sort of like a debate between a liberal vs. a conservative at
> the National Rifle Association meeting.

Heaven forbid there should be a debate on audio issues when there are
actually audiophiles around!

Vade Forrester

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Theporkygeorge@aol.com writes:
> dpierce@cartchunk.org wrote:
>
> > In my opinion, this debate is little more than an inconsequential
> > p*ssing match whose outcome, at best, will be ambiguous, which
> > will have no effect on the factious "war" that exists between the
> > proponents of each camp, will convince no one of anything and
> > will simply provide empty bragging rights for each side's spin-
> > meisters.

If just a few people hear a different opinion and say to themselves
"yes, that makes sense; I hadn't thought of that" then a debate is
worthwhile.

> I agree. If it happens it will be no different than just about every
> other debate on the subject in the past. It won't be any different in
> it's effect than the thousands of such debates that have transpired
> here on RAHE.
>
> > Most assuredly, it will do nothing whatsoever to clear the air
> > and, most importantly, won't push the industry one iota closer to
> > satisfying peoples' desire of the enjoyment of music in their
> > homes.
>
> Yep just like most of the debates on RAHE it will not likely make
> anyone think or act differently. It certainly won't have any affect
> on the design and production of high end equipment or recordings.

I think you're underestimating the effect that reading forums like this
one has on people.

Please don't assume that writing here is a waste of time and
influences no-one. This group has a huge readership -- probably
bigger than any Hi-Fi magazine, although it's impossible to know for
sure.

The Hi-Fi press is remarkably uniform in its opinions, and the only
place you'll see any real debate is on the net, especially in this
forum. When someone posts here, they don't get special respect
because of their job or their paper qualifications or how many
advertisers they have. They have to establish their credibility by
the quality of their posts.

If it were not for RAHE and similar forums I would not have had the
opportunity to hear opinions that differ from those in the Hi-Fi
press, and would not have been prompted to read psychoacoustics texts
to find out some more.

Andrew.

 

[ban]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

arahe@littlepinkcloud.com wrote:
>>
>> Yep just like most of the debates on RAHE it will not likely make
>> anyone think or act differently. It certainly won't have any affect
>> on the design and production of high end equipment or recordings.
>
> I think you're underestimating the effect that reading forums like
> this one has on people.
>
> Please don't assume that writing here is a waste of time and
> influences no-one. This group has a huge readership -- probably
> bigger than any Hi-Fi magazine, although it's impossible to know for
> sure.
>

I second that from my own experience. I had been believing in a lot of
imaginative things, and I was happy to find so well informed and educated
people here like Stewart Pinkerton(I see him now also on ABSE) or Chung.
Now I don't repeat parrotlike what others have said, but I do my own tests
and comparisons. Not always to the DBT standard, but with the intention to
find out the truth.
I could eliminate a lot of garbage believes that I had collected. And yes, I
am an electronic engineer and I worked in the recording studio business and
I play musical instruments. So all this doesn't make you immune to
imagination.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Ban wrote:
> arahe@littlepinkcloud.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Yep just like most of the debates on RAHE it will not likely make
> >> anyone think or act differently. It certainly won't have any
affect
> >> on the design and production of high end equipment or recordings.
> >
> > I think you're underestimating the effect that reading forums like
> > this one has on people.
> >
> > Please don't assume that writing here is a waste of time and
> > influences no-one. This group has a huge readership -- probably
> > bigger than any Hi-Fi magazine, although it's impossible to know
for
> > sure.
> >
>
> I second that from my own experience.

As will I. I first started reading RAHE (long before I began posting
here), because I was hoping for some enlightenment about what to listen
for when comparing, say, amps, which just didn't sound all that
different to me.

bob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

arahe@littlepinkcloud.com wrote:
> Theporkygeorge@aol.com writes:
> > dpierce@cartchunk.org wrote:
> >
> > > In my opinion, this debate is little more than an
inconsequential
> > > p*ssing match whose outcome, at best, will be ambiguous, which
> > > will have no effect on the factious "war" that exists between
the
> > > proponents of each camp, will convince no one of anything and
> > > will simply provide empty bragging rights for each side's spin-
> > > meisters.
>
> If just a few people hear a different opinion and say to themselves
> "yes, that makes sense; I hadn't thought of that" then a debate is
> worthwhile.

I suppoose there is some outside chance that someone who has never been
aware of the different POV held by objectvisist and subjectivists might
stumble into this event. I think it is unlikely that anyone there will
hear anything they haven't heard beofre on the subject.



>
> > I agree. If it happens it will be no different than just about
every
> > other debate on the subject in the past. It won't be any different
in
> > it's effect than the thousands of such debates that have
transpired
> > here on RAHE.
> >
> > > Most assuredly, it will do nothing whatsoever to clear the air
> > > and, most importantly, won't push the industry one iota closer
to
> > > satisfying peoples' desire of the enjoyment of music in their
> > > homes.
> >
> > Yep just like most of the debates on RAHE it will not likely make
> > anyone think or act differently. It certainly won't have any
affect
> > on the design and production of high end equipment or recordings.
>
> I think you're underestimating the effect that reading forums like
this
> one has on people.

Possibly.



>
> Please don't assume that writing here is a waste of time and
> influences no-one. This group has a huge readership -- probably
> bigger than any Hi-Fi magazine, although it's impossible to know for
> sure.


I doubt that very very much.




>
> The Hi-Fi press is remarkably uniform in its opinions,



No.



and the only
> place you'll see any real debate is on the net, especially in this
> forum.


I quite disagree again.



When someone posts here, they don't get special respect
> because of their job or their paper qualifications or how many
> advertisers they have. They have to establish their credibility by
> the quality of their posts.



One can read a great deal into that. I wonder what affect false claims
that an industry pro has been fired from his job will have on that
poster's credibility?



>
> If it were not for RAHE and similar forums I would not have had the
> opportunity to hear opinions that differ from those in the Hi-Fi
> press, and would not have been prompted to read psychoacoustics texts
> to find out some more.


You mean you have never read Stereo Review or other objectivist audio
magazines?

Scott Wheeler