High End Audio: A Non-Consumer Show

[Tomsguiderachel]

The "High Performance Audio" wing of CES lets pricey loudspeaker and amplifier companies glad-hand distributors. What happens when a non-audiophile walks in?

High End Audio: A Non-Consumer Show : Read more

 

[Guest]

Bose, Monster Cable, Pass and many others prey on peoples' ignorance and pride. The quotes from them in the article should be your first clue. The speakers are NOT worth that much. They are scamming people who have more money than sense. With an audio backround I can tell you, there just isnt that much missing in reproduction from 'decent' equiptment. Regardless of what they cost too produce (use your imagination) the difference is likely mostly subjective. Any objective increase in accuracy, imaging, distortion, etc is going to be very marginal. Yes, let you ears be the judge, forget and ignore price (for the sound judging part) and you will find it is all an ugly game.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

Thanks Vor. There's something to your argument, but I hesitate to lump Pass in with Monster and Bose--I think they're trying for something a little bit different, a different game. Believe me, these Pass speakers sounded better than any Bose product I've ever heard. Noticeably. But $24k better? Not so sure. For a person with normal hearing and a budget, its hard to recommend a product like that.

Rachel Rosmarin, Editor of Tom's Guide

 

[Tekkamanraiden]

Worth is relative to the person buying. I've held $10,000 audio cables in my hand. Even if they were made from 24 kart gold there was no way they were worth $10,000. If some rich guy thinks a pair of 2ft $10,000 cables makes his audio setup sound better who am I to disagree. I'd happily take his money any day.

 

[Codesmith]

They did a test where experts listened to the same sounds repeated on various audio cables. The experts had various opinions on which cable brought out which quality. Then they revealed that they never swapped cables.

People often hear what they expect to hear.

The speakers .... I am skeptical how they would stand up to a $5000 speaker in a blind test with hard-core audiophile. I'd have trouble finding flaws with a $1000 speaker.

 

[knutjb]

ry going to a silly money store with your own music and listen to a spendy system for as long as you can, an hour or 2. Better stores will do this. Then go home and listen to your own system. You be the judge. It's like playing a game on a 4870 X2 vs an integrated graphics. Some people can't understand why you would want to drop $500 on such a card. Audio is the same thing just quite a bit spendier...

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

knutjb--that's exactly what I'm saying. However, you can still buy "very good" speakers for around $1000 that will make a huge difference in your life vs. your iPod dock, know what I mean? I'm arguing that the $25k speakers don't add too much value above the "very good" speakers.

 

[vash21]

vor and tekkamanraiden have been reading too much engadget lately, the recent assault on retail level products from Monster has nothing to do with this level of quality. There is the difference between the 1K and 25K products that if you are not "In The Know", you would probably think they are scamming you. I love the way knutjb put it, but his sense of scale is a little off, i would call the GTX 295 the 1K level and the Telsa Personal Supercomputer to the 25K speakers. When you are somewhat "In the Know" but don't even have the level of wealth of the 1K high end to throw around, it can be quite irritating.

 

[Tomsguiderachel]

Vash21,

Thanks for your comment. Is the difference between a $1k system and a $25k system more being "in the know" or having super-human hearing abilities? That is what I haven't been able to determine. Also, is a $25k system 25x better than a $1k system, or just somewhat better (like, say 3x better)? If it is only 3x better, then it is hard to argue that the value is there.

 

[Guest]

Pass Labs is NOT like Bose and Monster, whose designs are dubious at best, and (in the case of Bose) obviously sound like crap.

As for whether or not $25k speakers add enough value, that depends on who is buying. However, the difference is there. You can compare various aspects of the playback, but for me, the most important thing once you get past the $1k mark is: when you close your eyes, how close do the speakers come to making you believe the musicians are in the room? My $1.5k Mirages sound great, but don't measure up to the $10k Wilson Audio WATT/Puppies (both at 1990 prices) in that regard, which came *very* close to fooling me. Still, I wouldn't pay that much for speakers unless I were a millionaire.

P.S.: Fancy audiophile cables are snake oil, especially Monster, which are garbage. Just get some Mogami or something, and solder on some good connectors, and that's all anyone needs.

 

[pwjone1]

I guess I look at the $25k speaker pair the same way I might a $250k Lamborghini or Bentley automobile. Some of what they're selling may be legitimate, some of it may just be image. There are people out there where a $25k speaker is nothing (heck, there are speakers out there like Wilson or MBLs that get into the $100k to $250k EACH range). Bill Gates is probably going to spend a nanosecond pondering a $25k speaker. But for most of us, in today's economy, $25k is a little out of our price range. That doesn't mean that it's not pretty easy to find something a LOT better than peddled down at the local Best Buy or Circuit City, that's become mostly bass heavy or loud so it stands out in the dreck, or in the case of Bose interior-designer preferred equipment. There's reasonably priced speakers from B&W, PSB, Paradigm, Definitive Tech, MartinLogan, Magnepan, etc., that are a little more equivalent to buying BMW or Lexus in lieu of Ford/Chevy. And these are legitimate, measurable differences in accuracy, sound stage/off axis performance, distortion, etc. Doesn't mean that BB & CC haven't done a good job of driving the price (after inflation) point down on speakers, they have, just maybe a tad too far. iPODs (and I have 4 now) haven't helped. But I suspect that as flash storage prices continues to drop, and you can get your whole legitimate library onto an iPOD in an essentially lossless environment, you'll eventually want (and be able to get) lower storage DAC stages, buds and eventually speakers.

 

[noahjwhite]

Speakers are worth exactly what people are willing to pay for them. Sound is very subjective. One thing that I've noticed while visiting higher end audio gear retailers is that the speakers are set up properly in a room specifically built for listening. The physical properties of the room and any sound treatments can make a huge difference.

 

[knutjb]

In my experience the small high end stores can provide a better bang for the buck. They can help you with a properly set up system and how to get the most out of it in your home usually for less than the megamart, where, once you check out its yours. SOL if it sucks.

Yes it is subjective but if you listen to the silly money stuff first for a point of reference you can train, yes train, the grey matter what it should be listening for. I have listened to a few systems that cost more than my house and a few of my neighbors too. I then found a system that got me 90% of it for 3k.

Small stores usually carry used equipment for a fair discount. I have upgraded that way till I found what I wanted. If you read a power supply article it reads like highend audio. They tear it apart to see whats inside and then tell you how well they used the components inside and if its worth your hard earned cash.

Go try it you'll be surprised

 

[mtriples]

A few notes...

1. Bose...theres a saying, no highs, no lows, must be Bose. They're great at putting decent sound into a tiny package...but thats about it. Just consumer hype otherwise.

2. Monster...There's a slight difference between some $20 HDMI cable and a high end cable like Monster advertises...however the average person wouldn't notice it unless they knew how to look. Most don't. In audio terms, buy the right size conductors for the application...oversizing by 2 wire guages (from a 16 or a 14, 14 to 12, hell, even 10 to 8 AWG, for those with very high current amps) might be slightly beneficial, since the higher the impedence, the more susceptable to noise you are. Again, though...most people wouldn't notice the difference.

3. $25k speakers (per pair)...not worth it in my books. If I had that much to put into a home theater system, I'd spend that kind of money getting the room designed for the desired acoustics, soundproofed, and then a high end 5.1 or 7.1 system in the ballpark of $5-10k.