fluppeteer
Distinguished
- Jul 6, 2006
- 15
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- 18,560
I don't know whether anyone's still lurking on this thread, but I've got a few more things to add for anyone who is (or the aether if nobody is - but at least I'll get it off my chest...)
Firstly, I finally managed to have a play with a Psion 5 (and an mx) last weekend, albeit without batteries - so only the physical design. I unequivocally withdraw my requests for a larger keyboard; I'm not sure whether it was using the Libretto that has trained me to it or whether my fingers have got thinner over time (unlikely - the rest of me hasn't), but I have no problem at all typing on it. My recollection of hating the bit of plastic in front of the space bar was accurate, though - because I hit the space bar with the side of my thumb, when it sinks into the keyboard my thumb rubs against the (relatively) sharp side of the case. If the rim of the keyboard was recessed, and the screen had a corresponding lip so that the case still closed fully, this wouldn't be an issue. I'm also a little unconvinced by the unconventional positions of the comma and period, but I don't have a better alternative, and I'd probably get used to it (just like I'll probably work out how to open it without trying to hold it by the keyboard while lifting the screen).
In terms of size... it *is* about an inch narrower than my Libretto's 70CT's keyboard; it's about as deep as the keyboard itself, and as thick as the Libretto minus the screen. The latter two comparisons are significant: the Libretto's screen, being fully backlit, is much thicker than the Psion's, and the entirety of the Libretto in front of the keyboard is taken up by its battery. This means the electronics of the Libretto - nearly ten years old - pretty much would fit inside the Psion's case. (The Libretto has space for a full PC Card and a 2.5" x 9.5mm hard disk, too.)
I want to have another stab at the ARM-based PDA viewpoint of this discussion. While I'm certainly not going to claim that an all-new Psion wouldn't be a cool piece of kit, and I appreciate all the opportunities presented by VNC and the like without it being a "real" PC, I wanted to say:
1) Without EPOC on it, it won't be a "real" Psion.
2) Keyboarded Windows Mobile variants have never been hugely popular; a keyboard makes people pine for the "real thing". I'm not convinced that this has changed over time.
3) I'm a Linux hacker, but even I don't think a Linux-based system is wise. Part of the problem is "which Linux?" - the first thing some people do with a Windows PDA is put a version of Linux on it, but the first thing people do with a Linux PDA is put a *different* version of Linux on it (see the Zaurus). There's a lot to be said for getting a funded company to do the hard work of the GUI, however much of a hash you think they're making of it. Don't get me wrong - I'd still stick Linux on it myself, but that's the point...
4) As far as I know, there's never been a very successful Linux-based keyboarded PDA. On the other hand, there's not been a popular Windows-based one either (since the Journada). Even the netbook.
5) Even though I now know that the keyboard on the Nokia 9000 series isn't usable (and I'm not sure that *that* is a huge seller), there's going to be competition in the consumer mind with the "big name" Nokia products. Smaller companies do seem to be trying to produce competitors, too. I now know I was wrong to consider this a viable alternative to a 5mx, but consumers aren't known for picking products on the basis of whether the keyboard (or anything else) is actually usable. I honestly doubt it'll sell, for psychological reasons.
If it's going to be done, I'd be strongly in favour of an e-Ink display and a slow processor, giving it a stab at the thin screen and battery life of the original. It wouldn't be cheap to develop, but component cost might be reasonable.
On the other hand, this might interest some who were looking at this thread:
http
/www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/24/htc_athena_to_ship_as_t-mobile_ameo/
Which, I'm afraid, brings me back to the "tiny PC" argument. I genuinely think that this would be a unique product; the only things like it are the oqo and Sony UX series, and they have thumb boards instead of keyboards, intended for mid-air typing. The Psion is actually usable for touch-typing on a table, which makes it a whole different proposition. The UMPCs are, generally, bigger and more unwieldy - and less pocketable. They do, however, have one thing right: they're intended to be much more affordable than the oqo and UX ranges.
Now I've finally got a Psion in front of me, though, I can see some major obstacles to the PC approach as well:
1) The aspect ratio of the screen is really odd. I've had trouble finding the screen size on-line, but I measure it at about 5 1/2" by 2 7/16". Obviously, 640x240 is 8/3, but it fills the case much better than I'd realised. A 7.2" 15:9 screen (like the 1280x768 one from the Libretto U100) is 3.7" tall, and - even allowing for the space on the Psion taken up by the fixed icons - that's a huge difference. My apologies to anyone to whom this was obvious when I started ranting about it before. The 2.275"-tall screen from the UX180P does, however, fit easily - although it hardly fills the lid. As I mentioned before, 1024x600 is a bit small for Windows; I'd be much happier with a few more dpi in the same size.
2) I'd not really appreciated how small the UX180P (etc.) is. If this Psion project doesn't happen, I may have to get one. We're talking about a similar-sized device, albeit with a better keyboard. However, it's quite expensive, and has a lot of R and D in it. Talking Sony into producing a variant with a new case, while cost-effective, probably won't wash.
3) Vista is now out. Even if Vista is a stupid thing to run on this device, it's distinctly devalued if it can't cope, even if it runs it badly. That may include Aero Glass, especially since a scalable GUI is desirable. This ups the CPU requirement (although a 1.2GHz Core Solo would probably still be adequate), the memory requirements (suddenly 2GB doesn't seem so silly, and 1GB is a definite minimum - swapping kills the battery) and, especially, the graphics.
In my book, there are two reasons the oqo and UX series don't sell better. The first is the keyboard, which we're talking about fixing. The second, a problem shared by the Libretto range and various small Lifebooks, is the price. I'm convinced that a completely stripped down PC in a Psion form-factor, launched at the price of a high-end PDA, would sell. This is bad for margins and makes it high risk, of course (which is why all small PCs are so expensive), but that's life. By being a generic PC, with (importantly) a BIOS and standard components, one can run Linux (if you're a hacker), XP (for the majority), or Vista (if you want the dynamic scaling and like bandwagons) and a lot of the development work is already done.
From this point of view, I'm strongly against using any exotic technology that would push the price up (OLED, entirely flash storage) and, indeed, anything that makes it more complex than necessary. I'm dubious even about a compact flash slot, now - I'd sooner see the space taken by more battery.
It might be possible to base it on some standard board (which may mean resorting to a slower processor):
http/www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5882
I stand by the previous suggestion that almost anything can be added via USB. The only reason (after engaging my brain) that I'd like to see a video output rather than relying on an external USB device is that the on-board video is likely to have one anyway; this would be a good candidate for an HDMI 1.3 type C connector, although there's a lot to be said for VGA as well. I'd concede that an SD-card reader would probably be useful (and it's small), but anything bigger seems more like a waste of limited space. I'm not sure how fast SD cards are, but they might allow Vista-style ReadyBoost, which could help both with power consumption and performance compared with running the disk. Not many USB ports are needed (a couple might be nice) - mini hubs are cheap.
Just because it's so useful, I think 802.11 is necessary, and bluetooth makes a lot of peripherals (most notably a cell phone and therefore wireless modem) available. Notably they're both internal, although the aerial takes up space - the fewer external connectors, the busier the outside of the case is, and the more likely it is for something to break or get something stuck in it. For this reason, I'm inclined to let people buy their own wired ethernet and modem USB adaptors, even though they're generally useful - I *would* carry one myself, and I always have an ether PC card in my Libretto, so I'm not just discounting things I'd use. If anything had to go, I'd make it the 802.11 - USB adaptors are cheap and small-ish.
The sliding keyboard of the 5 and 5mx are significant because they allow the screen to be completely solid against the back of the case. This makes it a feasible touch screen, although it rules out a rotating hinge and PDA-esque usage. I think something in this form factor is hurt by trying to be all things to all men, and it's better to aim for a pure laptop that's pocketable than to try to make it a PDA as well (however good a one it is). I don't know how much a touch screen adds to the price (or space), but if it's significant, I'd be interested in how usable a pop-out trackpad would be. The screen will be much thicker than the 5's anyway, if it's a proper backlit colour job, so the rest of the system already needs to be thinner (the keyboard sticks quite a long way into the lid on the original).
Having done the maths, such a device isn't going to recharge in a useful amount of time over a USB socket; nor are AA batteries going to do much. That means stuffing it full of Li-ion battery; a car lighter adaptor would be a nice touch, though, and a compatible rechargable optional extra battery (ideally with a long cable so it can stay in a pocket) might solve the demands for multi-hour use.
I really will try to get a diagram drawn soon. Still, my thoughts are congealing. Actually seeing a real Psion is quite instructive.
Thank you for listening (if anyone did). Is this actually going to happen, or is it just a theoretical exercise? I'm still quite interested in what happens next.
Firstly, I finally managed to have a play with a Psion 5 (and an mx) last weekend, albeit without batteries - so only the physical design. I unequivocally withdraw my requests for a larger keyboard; I'm not sure whether it was using the Libretto that has trained me to it or whether my fingers have got thinner over time (unlikely - the rest of me hasn't), but I have no problem at all typing on it. My recollection of hating the bit of plastic in front of the space bar was accurate, though - because I hit the space bar with the side of my thumb, when it sinks into the keyboard my thumb rubs against the (relatively) sharp side of the case. If the rim of the keyboard was recessed, and the screen had a corresponding lip so that the case still closed fully, this wouldn't be an issue. I'm also a little unconvinced by the unconventional positions of the comma and period, but I don't have a better alternative, and I'd probably get used to it (just like I'll probably work out how to open it without trying to hold it by the keyboard while lifting the screen).
In terms of size... it *is* about an inch narrower than my Libretto's 70CT's keyboard; it's about as deep as the keyboard itself, and as thick as the Libretto minus the screen. The latter two comparisons are significant: the Libretto's screen, being fully backlit, is much thicker than the Psion's, and the entirety of the Libretto in front of the keyboard is taken up by its battery. This means the electronics of the Libretto - nearly ten years old - pretty much would fit inside the Psion's case. (The Libretto has space for a full PC Card and a 2.5" x 9.5mm hard disk, too.)
I want to have another stab at the ARM-based PDA viewpoint of this discussion. While I'm certainly not going to claim that an all-new Psion wouldn't be a cool piece of kit, and I appreciate all the opportunities presented by VNC and the like without it being a "real" PC, I wanted to say:
1) Without EPOC on it, it won't be a "real" Psion.
2) Keyboarded Windows Mobile variants have never been hugely popular; a keyboard makes people pine for the "real thing". I'm not convinced that this has changed over time.
3) I'm a Linux hacker, but even I don't think a Linux-based system is wise. Part of the problem is "which Linux?" - the first thing some people do with a Windows PDA is put a version of Linux on it, but the first thing people do with a Linux PDA is put a *different* version of Linux on it (see the Zaurus). There's a lot to be said for getting a funded company to do the hard work of the GUI, however much of a hash you think they're making of it. Don't get me wrong - I'd still stick Linux on it myself, but that's the point...
4) As far as I know, there's never been a very successful Linux-based keyboarded PDA. On the other hand, there's not been a popular Windows-based one either (since the Journada). Even the netbook.
5) Even though I now know that the keyboard on the Nokia 9000 series isn't usable (and I'm not sure that *that* is a huge seller), there's going to be competition in the consumer mind with the "big name" Nokia products. Smaller companies do seem to be trying to produce competitors, too. I now know I was wrong to consider this a viable alternative to a 5mx, but consumers aren't known for picking products on the basis of whether the keyboard (or anything else) is actually usable. I honestly doubt it'll sell, for psychological reasons.
If it's going to be done, I'd be strongly in favour of an e-Ink display and a slow processor, giving it a stab at the thin screen and battery life of the original. It wouldn't be cheap to develop, but component cost might be reasonable.
On the other hand, this might interest some who were looking at this thread:
http
/www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/24/htc_athena_to_ship_as_t-mobile_ameo/Which, I'm afraid, brings me back to the "tiny PC" argument. I genuinely think that this would be a unique product; the only things like it are the oqo and Sony UX series, and they have thumb boards instead of keyboards, intended for mid-air typing. The Psion is actually usable for touch-typing on a table, which makes it a whole different proposition. The UMPCs are, generally, bigger and more unwieldy - and less pocketable. They do, however, have one thing right: they're intended to be much more affordable than the oqo and UX ranges.
Now I've finally got a Psion in front of me, though, I can see some major obstacles to the PC approach as well:
1) The aspect ratio of the screen is really odd. I've had trouble finding the screen size on-line, but I measure it at about 5 1/2" by 2 7/16". Obviously, 640x240 is 8/3, but it fills the case much better than I'd realised. A 7.2" 15:9 screen (like the 1280x768 one from the Libretto U100) is 3.7" tall, and - even allowing for the space on the Psion taken up by the fixed icons - that's a huge difference. My apologies to anyone to whom this was obvious when I started ranting about it before. The 2.275"-tall screen from the UX180P does, however, fit easily - although it hardly fills the lid. As I mentioned before, 1024x600 is a bit small for Windows; I'd be much happier with a few more dpi in the same size.
2) I'd not really appreciated how small the UX180P (etc.) is. If this Psion project doesn't happen, I may have to get one. We're talking about a similar-sized device, albeit with a better keyboard. However, it's quite expensive, and has a lot of R and D in it. Talking Sony into producing a variant with a new case, while cost-effective, probably won't wash.
3) Vista is now out. Even if Vista is a stupid thing to run on this device, it's distinctly devalued if it can't cope, even if it runs it badly. That may include Aero Glass, especially since a scalable GUI is desirable. This ups the CPU requirement (although a 1.2GHz Core Solo would probably still be adequate), the memory requirements (suddenly 2GB doesn't seem so silly, and 1GB is a definite minimum - swapping kills the battery) and, especially, the graphics.
In my book, there are two reasons the oqo and UX series don't sell better. The first is the keyboard, which we're talking about fixing. The second, a problem shared by the Libretto range and various small Lifebooks, is the price. I'm convinced that a completely stripped down PC in a Psion form-factor, launched at the price of a high-end PDA, would sell. This is bad for margins and makes it high risk, of course (which is why all small PCs are so expensive), but that's life. By being a generic PC, with (importantly) a BIOS and standard components, one can run Linux (if you're a hacker), XP (for the majority), or Vista (if you want the dynamic scaling and like bandwagons) and a lot of the development work is already done.
From this point of view, I'm strongly against using any exotic technology that would push the price up (OLED, entirely flash storage) and, indeed, anything that makes it more complex than necessary. I'm dubious even about a compact flash slot, now - I'd sooner see the space taken by more battery.
It might be possible to base it on some standard board (which may mean resorting to a slower processor):
http
/www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5882I stand by the previous suggestion that almost anything can be added via USB. The only reason (after engaging my brain) that I'd like to see a video output rather than relying on an external USB device is that the on-board video is likely to have one anyway; this would be a good candidate for an HDMI 1.3 type C connector, although there's a lot to be said for VGA as well. I'd concede that an SD-card reader would probably be useful (and it's small), but anything bigger seems more like a waste of limited space. I'm not sure how fast SD cards are, but they might allow Vista-style ReadyBoost, which could help both with power consumption and performance compared with running the disk. Not many USB ports are needed (a couple might be nice) - mini hubs are cheap.
Just because it's so useful, I think 802.11 is necessary, and bluetooth makes a lot of peripherals (most notably a cell phone and therefore wireless modem) available. Notably they're both internal, although the aerial takes up space - the fewer external connectors, the busier the outside of the case is, and the more likely it is for something to break or get something stuck in it. For this reason, I'm inclined to let people buy their own wired ethernet and modem USB adaptors, even though they're generally useful - I *would* carry one myself, and I always have an ether PC card in my Libretto, so I'm not just discounting things I'd use. If anything had to go, I'd make it the 802.11 - USB adaptors are cheap and small-ish.
The sliding keyboard of the 5 and 5mx are significant because they allow the screen to be completely solid against the back of the case. This makes it a feasible touch screen, although it rules out a rotating hinge and PDA-esque usage. I think something in this form factor is hurt by trying to be all things to all men, and it's better to aim for a pure laptop that's pocketable than to try to make it a PDA as well (however good a one it is). I don't know how much a touch screen adds to the price (or space), but if it's significant, I'd be interested in how usable a pop-out trackpad would be. The screen will be much thicker than the 5's anyway, if it's a proper backlit colour job, so the rest of the system already needs to be thinner (the keyboard sticks quite a long way into the lid on the original).
Having done the maths, such a device isn't going to recharge in a useful amount of time over a USB socket; nor are AA batteries going to do much. That means stuffing it full of Li-ion battery; a car lighter adaptor would be a nice touch, though, and a compatible rechargable optional extra battery (ideally with a long cable so it can stay in a pocket) might solve the demands for multi-hour use.
I really will try to get a diagram drawn soon. Still, my thoughts are congealing. Actually seeing a real Psion is quite instructive.
Thank you for listening (if anyone did). Is this actually going to happen, or is it just a theoretical exercise? I'm still quite interested in what happens next.
mifritscher
Distinguished
- Nov 27, 2006
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- 18,510
I've set up a wiki here:
http/psionfx.cspsx.de/wiki/Main_Page
So we can collect the details more easily
http
/psionfx.cspsx.de/wiki/Main_PageSo we can collect the details more easily
mifritscher
Distinguished
- Nov 27, 2006
- 6
- 0
- 18,510
NEW PSION 5MX
Before I put forward all my suggestions I think it would be a good idea to mention type of person I am so that the reasoning behind the suggestions I give are understood.
I am a 46-year-old electronics technician who has started up and run my own business for 18 years. My friends call me the gadget man. I buy and try out all the latest convenient life helping devices and toys. I have seen or tried or bought many mini notebooks / palmtops from almost every company around. I am a typical business person who uses needs all my info on me at all times from costing spread sheets to general correspondence to my contacts data base to my agenda to in fact almost everything. I use my 5MX for all but the presentations, artwork and CAD (these are not really possible on a small screen device).
New Psion (here after NP) should be as follows
1. Overall size
This is one of the 4 reasons the 5MX became so popular so as I see it the present size is ideal. Make NP smaller and you may as well get a Nokia 9500. Make NP bigger then you may as well get a Psion 7 or any of a range of products from many other companies out there.
2. Keyboard
The keyboard is another reasons 5MX became so popular. Even now, 9 years later there is still no keyboard to come close to this. If this gets changed in any way it will not be usable. For this reason the size must not be made smaller either.
3. Screen size
Another reason for the 5MX being so popular. If possible though, I suggest take away the icons on the bottom and the left as this would make the visible size bigger. Also make screen 640 x 360 or if possible make 800x 480. (How many truly pocket palmtops have decent viewable screens as big as the original 5MX?)
4. Screen color
Leave as monochrome because color screens will chew batteries. Even if screen was full color little would be gained as not much could be achieved on such a small screen as far as presentations or art work. Only go color if a minimum of 20 hours run time is possible on batteries.
5. Screen back lighting
For screen back lighting use white LED’s as these are now common, cheap and very power efficient. This should allow almost no battery life penalty when using the NP at night on back light.
6. Touch screen and stylus
Keep the touch screen feature as this makes file browsing and general limited drawing etc very easy. I suggest also make the stylus using a Parker pen refill on the one end. This would give the benefit of having a stylus that could also be a pen on the other end. At the office and home desk, I have a stylus made from a plastic hose pipe clip, which I stick on my forefinger. This clip has a small plastic stick sticking out of it. This allows me to type and also quickly use the touch screen with out having to pickup the stylus when I need it.
7. Battery life
Should be minimum 20 hours. Some flights are long. It is not always possible to get recharging done at the airport. That is why I suggest mono screen (see above).
Note: - Put an option in software that will allow charging from a PC USB or mains supply if fitted with NiMh batteries (see 5 below). Batteries must of a standard version such as AA or other common easily purchasable batteries so that if need be they can be bought over the counter anywhere (if luck has it that the power has died at a most inconvenient time). Also use 5 volts not 6 volts for the external supply / charging as this is far more common these days. As an idea also bring out a small solar panel the same size as NP so that back packers / campers / fishermen etc can just open up the solar panel (2 panels same size as NP but with fold so can be opened up to get a large panel). Again this panel should also be able to charge up internal batteries.
8. Memory
Change Compact flash to SSD. This is now available in 8 gig which is plenty more than ever needed. Bigger SD’s will be available in years to come. I would not recommend using a HD. It draws too much current and is not very solid. My Psion gets bashed around a lot and I don't see a HD surviving this. SD is also far smaller than Compact flash. If Compact flash is needed to be read, it can be read via a reader connected to the USB port.
9. USB Connectivity
Add 2 USB ports so that it can be backed up to or read any USB memory device. Also use USB connection to printers as serial is getting out dated. Note it should also be usable with a PC for backup and data transfer. While connected to a PC it recharges the Psion as mentioned in no 6 above. Also as the NP has USB ports and lots of memory it can be used to connect to a memory stick / portable HD. Note this does mean that it must a full size connector as mem sticks use USB1 connectors.
Space USB ports away from each other so that a USB multi card reader and memory stick can both be put in together at the same time.
10. IR and RS232/parrallel Connectivity
IR is great, as it is small & easy to include. Cost is minimal compared to RF. Keep it but push speed to 512Kb or more. I still see lots of equipment with IR from printers to cell phones and modems etc. Keep RS232 /parallel as it is for compatibility with older equipment. As a technical person I also know it will not cost much to include these.
11. Operating system
Despite Epoc being good and reliable and safe it has not got the following or growth that Linux has. I suggest going to Linux as my preference. With the greater following it will also open up a market by Linux fans. MickySoft CE(sorry I mean Microsoft is not a safe & reliable operating system. Remember, if it is going to be used by people like me who are always on the move, we cannot tolerate a loss of data in any way. We need reliability. If using Linux as the op sys for NP then divers for printers and cameras will be available from the manufacturers as Linux is getting popular.
12. Casing
The original 5MX casing was well thought out. It stands firm when using the stylus. The minor internal changes done in the MC218 version for Ericsson helped the problem of screen cables breaking. Change this in any way and the touch screen will not feel solid anymore. This really is the top of the list of reasons for the 5MX being so unique. Another casing format is the type used in the Vadem Clio PC. This should also work well with a stylus.
13. Sound recorder
The sound recorder has been great for note taking in a meeting. But make it a stereo with headphones as well and a mic input as in most PC’s. Airplane entertainment sucks. Use MP3/ ORG Vobis compatibility (just software). Put in features such as crop a small section in the middle of a file instead of just the end only, i.e. allow a proper editing of sound. Also put in a Voice operated on/off (VOX) feature to the recorder option. Keep a set of buttons on the outside for quick operation.
14. LED keyboard lighting and torch
If white LED’s were places at the end of the lid (just above the screen) then when the back light is on these LED’s would be able to light up the keyboard and maybe some surrounding table space. This would allow it to be very usable in darkness or power failure situations.
Include a white LED or 2 on the one end for a torch. I have on times been dropped into total darkness during a power outage and only my key ring torch gave me light. If there could be a switch on one end of the casing for this and also a software feature to activate this when the case is opened to light up the room.
15. Camera
If it was to include a camera then it would need the color screen for any sort of viewing. It then may as well be used for watching films from memory, which would need a HD for the bigger files, bigger batteries and all the rest bla bla, ie a complete different machine!! If a camera was to be fitted use a Sony or Panasonic chip (i.e. do the job properly) as nothing is more disappointing than a lousy picture. Also allow the use of a proper external camera via USB port and also allow for down loading from the camera to the NP for back up (via USB or video input sockets). Allow for a simple viewer in mono if mono screen is used.
16. Price
With all the above features a max price of around USD700 for end user price with a mono screen and basically with only updates on all the electronics this should be a reachable target. If using color then USD900, as more cost would be incurred. These prices are for end user prices.
In general
If it is made bigger then you may as well get a Psion 7 or net book or NEC 900. There are plenty of products from well know companies out there with products in that range. Make it smaller and it competes with smart phones (e.g. Nokia 9500). The Psion 5MX was a true pocket sized palmtop computer/assistant with plenty creature comforts.
The long battery life, big touch screen, great keyboard, sound recorder and general software features just made it what it was. Once a person started using it, there was nothing to compare even now. With the new Psion, just update it with the latest connectivity, newer memory format, bigger & wider screen by using the whole of the lid, better sound and several other features and you have a winner. Just remember to market and distribute it properly this time as I feel this was one of the let downs when Psion made the 5MX. If Linux was to be used a big following would also result and therefore a good supply of software will be guaranteed.
Before I put forward all my suggestions I think it would be a good idea to mention type of person I am so that the reasoning behind the suggestions I give are understood.
I am a 46-year-old electronics technician who has started up and run my own business for 18 years. My friends call me the gadget man. I buy and try out all the latest convenient life helping devices and toys. I have seen or tried or bought many mini notebooks / palmtops from almost every company around. I am a typical business person who uses needs all my info on me at all times from costing spread sheets to general correspondence to my contacts data base to my agenda to in fact almost everything. I use my 5MX for all but the presentations, artwork and CAD (these are not really possible on a small screen device).
New Psion (here after NP) should be as follows
1. Overall size
This is one of the 4 reasons the 5MX became so popular so as I see it the present size is ideal. Make NP smaller and you may as well get a Nokia 9500. Make NP bigger then you may as well get a Psion 7 or any of a range of products from many other companies out there.
2. Keyboard
The keyboard is another reasons 5MX became so popular. Even now, 9 years later there is still no keyboard to come close to this. If this gets changed in any way it will not be usable. For this reason the size must not be made smaller either.
3. Screen size
Another reason for the 5MX being so popular. If possible though, I suggest take away the icons on the bottom and the left as this would make the visible size bigger. Also make screen 640 x 360 or if possible make 800x 480. (How many truly pocket palmtops have decent viewable screens as big as the original 5MX?)
4. Screen color
Leave as monochrome because color screens will chew batteries. Even if screen was full color little would be gained as not much could be achieved on such a small screen as far as presentations or art work. Only go color if a minimum of 20 hours run time is possible on batteries.
5. Screen back lighting
For screen back lighting use white LED’s as these are now common, cheap and very power efficient. This should allow almost no battery life penalty when using the NP at night on back light.
6. Touch screen and stylus
Keep the touch screen feature as this makes file browsing and general limited drawing etc very easy. I suggest also make the stylus using a Parker pen refill on the one end. This would give the benefit of having a stylus that could also be a pen on the other end. At the office and home desk, I have a stylus made from a plastic hose pipe clip, which I stick on my forefinger. This clip has a small plastic stick sticking out of it. This allows me to type and also quickly use the touch screen with out having to pickup the stylus when I need it.
7. Battery life
Should be minimum 20 hours. Some flights are long. It is not always possible to get recharging done at the airport. That is why I suggest mono screen (see above).
Note: - Put an option in software that will allow charging from a PC USB or mains supply if fitted with NiMh batteries (see 5 below). Batteries must of a standard version such as AA or other common easily purchasable batteries so that if need be they can be bought over the counter anywhere (if luck has it that the power has died at a most inconvenient time). Also use 5 volts not 6 volts for the external supply / charging as this is far more common these days. As an idea also bring out a small solar panel the same size as NP so that back packers / campers / fishermen etc can just open up the solar panel (2 panels same size as NP but with fold so can be opened up to get a large panel). Again this panel should also be able to charge up internal batteries.
8. Memory
Change Compact flash to SSD. This is now available in 8 gig which is plenty more than ever needed. Bigger SD’s will be available in years to come. I would not recommend using a HD. It draws too much current and is not very solid. My Psion gets bashed around a lot and I don't see a HD surviving this. SD is also far smaller than Compact flash. If Compact flash is needed to be read, it can be read via a reader connected to the USB port.
9. USB Connectivity
Add 2 USB ports so that it can be backed up to or read any USB memory device. Also use USB connection to printers as serial is getting out dated. Note it should also be usable with a PC for backup and data transfer. While connected to a PC it recharges the Psion as mentioned in no 6 above. Also as the NP has USB ports and lots of memory it can be used to connect to a memory stick / portable HD. Note this does mean that it must a full size connector as mem sticks use USB1 connectors.
Space USB ports away from each other so that a USB multi card reader and memory stick can both be put in together at the same time.
10. IR and RS232/parrallel Connectivity
IR is great, as it is small & easy to include. Cost is minimal compared to RF. Keep it but push speed to 512Kb or more. I still see lots of equipment with IR from printers to cell phones and modems etc. Keep RS232 /parallel as it is for compatibility with older equipment. As a technical person I also know it will not cost much to include these.
11. Operating system
Despite Epoc being good and reliable and safe it has not got the following or growth that Linux has. I suggest going to Linux as my preference. With the greater following it will also open up a market by Linux fans. MickySoft CE(sorry I mean Microsoft
is not a safe & reliable operating system. Remember, if it is going to be used by people like me who are always on the move, we cannot tolerate a loss of data in any way. We need reliability. If using Linux as the op sys for NP then divers for printers and cameras will be available from the manufacturers as Linux is getting popular.12. Casing
The original 5MX casing was well thought out. It stands firm when using the stylus. The minor internal changes done in the MC218 version for Ericsson helped the problem of screen cables breaking. Change this in any way and the touch screen will not feel solid anymore. This really is the top of the list of reasons for the 5MX being so unique. Another casing format is the type used in the Vadem Clio PC. This should also work well with a stylus.
13. Sound recorder
The sound recorder has been great for note taking in a meeting. But make it a stereo with headphones as well and a mic input as in most PC’s. Airplane entertainment sucks. Use MP3/ ORG Vobis compatibility (just software). Put in features such as crop a small section in the middle of a file instead of just the end only, i.e. allow a proper editing of sound. Also put in a Voice operated on/off (VOX) feature to the recorder option. Keep a set of buttons on the outside for quick operation.
14. LED keyboard lighting and torch
If white LED’s were places at the end of the lid (just above the screen) then when the back light is on these LED’s would be able to light up the keyboard and maybe some surrounding table space. This would allow it to be very usable in darkness or power failure situations.
Include a white LED or 2 on the one end for a torch. I have on times been dropped into total darkness during a power outage and only my key ring torch gave me light. If there could be a switch on one end of the casing for this and also a software feature to activate this when the case is opened to light up the room.
15. Camera
If it was to include a camera then it would need the color screen for any sort of viewing. It then may as well be used for watching films from memory, which would need a HD for the bigger files, bigger batteries and all the rest bla bla, ie a complete different machine!! If a camera was to be fitted use a Sony or Panasonic chip (i.e. do the job properly) as nothing is more disappointing than a lousy picture. Also allow the use of a proper external camera via USB port and also allow for down loading from the camera to the NP for back up (via USB or video input sockets). Allow for a simple viewer in mono if mono screen is used.
16. Price
With all the above features a max price of around USD700 for end user price with a mono screen and basically with only updates on all the electronics this should be a reachable target. If using color then USD900, as more cost would be incurred. These prices are for end user prices.
In general
If it is made bigger then you may as well get a Psion 7 or net book or NEC 900. There are plenty of products from well know companies out there with products in that range. Make it smaller and it competes with smart phones (e.g. Nokia 9500). The Psion 5MX was a true pocket sized palmtop computer/assistant with plenty creature comforts.
The long battery life, big touch screen, great keyboard, sound recorder and general software features just made it what it was. Once a person started using it, there was nothing to compare even now. With the new Psion, just update it with the latest connectivity, newer memory format, bigger & wider screen by using the whole of the lid, better sound and several other features and you have a winner. Just remember to market and distribute it properly this time as I feel this was one of the let downs when Psion made the 5MX. If Linux was to be used a big following would also result and therefore a good supply of software will be guaranteed.
fluppeteer
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- Jul 6, 2006
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Hi Horsey. Welcome to the discussion (as someone who's posted here too much - I've no authority!) There's a lot I want to put on the wiki, but I wanted to reply to your post first. It's going to sound like I disagree with you a lot, which isn't the case; every decision is a trade-off, so I just want to point out the disadvantages, as well as benefits, as I see them in your suggestions for the purposes of discussion. Assume I'm playing devil's advocate at least some of the time.
To give an equivalent bit of background, I'm a software engineer. I've been using various bits of kit for years, but I never owned a Psion (although I've currently got one on loan for examination), so I defer to other people's direct experience. I've used a Newton, Palm (III, IIIc), Zaurus (briefly) and two Sony Ericsson smart phones (P800, currently P910i) in my time. I also carry an old Libretto (x86 ultraportable), and own a couple of others.
That's a little harsh - I don't think we need to be absolutely rigid about the size. So long as the keyboard and screen aren't restricted, and so long as it's about as pocketable, we're in the same spirit. A 5MX that's a few mm thinner won't turn it into a 9500; a couple of mm longer won't make it a NetBook. Something close enough to be "the same form factor" is all I'm bothered about, and I don't want to lose out on technology just to make it fit in a 5mx carry case. (My Libretto fits in my Newton's carry case, FWIW.) I certainly don't think we should be aiming much bigger or smaller, though.
Again, I know the keyboard is the famous feature of the 5 series, but I'm not so religious about keeping it entirely unmodified. The important thing is to make something equally usable. It's not as nice as the Libretto's (which is, to be fair, quite a bit larger). Most significantly, dealing with the rim under the space bar, which rubs the side of my thumb then I hit space, would be good. The 5's keyboard is hugely better than the direct competition, though (even the Revo), and I absolutely agree that it's the primary distinguishing factor of this over every other PDA on the market.
I agree about removing the icons and having a bigger screen. Upping the resolution helps (I'm a pixel junkie, so if there were no downside I'd be pushing for silly resolution), although it adds to the cost. I gather (from what else you say) that you're in the "PDA with a decent keyboard" camp rather than the "pocketable PC" camp; given this, the benefits to extra resolution are relatively limited. I agree that modern technology ought to make a better resolution - and certainly better contrast - possible though.
A colour screen makes a massive difference in the ultraportable PC space, which is one of the reasons for the relative drop in battery life compared with a PDA. The Psion's screen isn't actually much smaller than my Libretto's, so I'm not sure I'd argue that there are limits to what can be done on it artistically - and higher resolution helps. Almost every modern PDA has a full colour screen with decent backlighting, and there's a danger that not being able to match this will make a new Psion seem outdated. In the PDA space, I suspect the practical consideration comes down to whether a better web browsing experience is worth sacrificing run-time; clearly you feel it isn't. A decent colour screen has a serious overhead in lighting (and a transflective one is inherently dimmer than a monochrome one). I'm wary of over-dependency on the ability to use AA batteries; it's very convenient, but you can get a lot of power in a lithium ion pack that can be hidden in the main unit more easily (and there's always the option of an AA backup for an extra hour or so when the internal battery dies).
For the most readable display per unit power consumption, if colour isn't an issue, we're probably looking at eInk. It's a new technology and probably not that cheap (or available as a commodity), though.
My concern is that a distinguishing feature of the 5's screen is how extremely thin it is; this is partly because of the E-L backlight. So long as LED lighting doesn't cause an issue here (and a "decent colour" screen will be thicker anyway) I agree that white is nicer than green. With eInk, there's the option of front-lighting.
Interesting. The Libretto has a joystick (although there are touch-screen variants) which I concede is a bit of a pain, but having a keyboard makes a bit difference in usability so long as the UI works with it. I've always been a bit wary of touch-screen GUIs, especially when one is expected to use a finger to make smeary marks over the screen (hear that, Apple?) but I don't have much of a feel for how useful the touch-screen is on the Psion. I'm always annoyed to have to use it on my P910; the keyboard and the scroll wheel are almost, but not quite, enough (e.g. you can write a text message, but not send it without the stylus). Speaking of which, a scroll wheel on the side is very handy, in my experience.
In the PDA form factor, the touch screen is probably more useful than the micro-laptop - desktop operating systems aren't really designed for touch-screen use, and having decent resolution makes the touch-screen harder to use. While I'm not going to go against the touch-screen idea for a PDA, I'm wary of whether it would cost more (probably not so much if you're not trying to retrofit one to a laptop screen) or impact on the screen quality/thickness.
Seriously, you'd use this constantly for 20 hours in a row without bringing spare power? I still argue that there are two separate usage scenarios: you want something small to use for a long time, or you want something tiny that you can carry everywhere. Carrying a spare case the size of the Psion that's entirely battery and lets you run for a month, or even a set of replacement (rechargable) batteries, wouldn't be ridiculous if you know you're going to be on the go for 20 hours. You don't want to be weighed down by this all the time, but unless you frequent lifts that get stuck I doubt it's often that a 20-hour job will sneak up on you. However, everyone has their own requirements, so the fact that I'm surprised doesn't mean your requirements are invalid.
A PDA-style Psion can reasonably be charged (or even run) from a USB dongle, although the power available is limited if staying within spec is important. It may be practical to support AA batteries as a back-up to an internal device; I remain a bit dubious about running for 20 hours on traditional cells alone without severe limitations on the performance of the device. If battery life is more important than anything else, this is not necessarily a problem, but obviously it's not going to make the device good for browsing flash-heavy web pages. Note that you can buy AA batteries with integrated USB connectors, from which they can be recharged (neat, but expensive). There is no standard for rechargable lithium ion batteries in conventional sizes, as far as I know; less charge density will be available from NiMH. I see no problem with a solar cell optional extra, although you'd need very good sunlight if it were used for running as well as charging.
The reason for sticking with compact flash is precisely that it's big, and therefore it can be used for multiple devices. You can get readers for all the other common formats that fit in a compact flash slot. You can get video cards, modems and ethernet adaptors that fit in a compact flash slot. You can get wifi and bluetooth, although I admit that they're available in SD too (although last I looked - admittedly years back - they weren't so standardised as the CF versions). Unlike USB, they're generally designed to be very low power. That said, I admit that an SD reader would be smaller, and USB sockets would solve the problem almost as well and more flexibly. I quite like my idea of having a spare (Li-poly) battery that could fit in the CF slot, but I may be biased because I came up with it. Some additional storage is good, but if we go with SD we'll alienate users of other storage types (hello, Sony). If space is a limitation, why not go for MiniSD or MicroSD?
I'll concede that SD is the format I'd most back as an alternative to CF, though, partly because of it supporting both MiniSD and MicroSD via adaptors. I recommend the SanDisk SD cards with integrated USB connectors, but having something inside the case for long term use has some appeal.
A HD is vital for the micro-laptop view of this item; 8GB is small for a PC, and hard disks are vastly more economical per unit price. The same isn't true on a PDA, especially one incapable of media playback. Laptop hard disks are surprisingly robust, but I concur that in a PDA it's probably unwise.
I agree (although I'm wary of covering the outside with too many connectors when very small USB hubs are available, partly because the more exposed connectors the more there is to get gummed up). If you're serious about the AA batteries, be wary of how long you can use a powered USB socket for. External hard disks often need two USB sockets to pull enough power; unless an extra source is available, this may be an issue. There's an argument for allowing two inputs from a PC, one only doubling the power available, to allow for powering a pass-through device.
Re. serial... *getting* out-dated? Not that parallel was ever a practical options. Serial is useful for some people using Psions in custom projects, but there's always the USB to RS232 dongle approach.
I'm a fan of IR on the principle that my older laptops support it, and giving them anything else is a pain. Also I seem to have bad luck with BlueTooth. If it doesn't add to the size, it's good (and you can use the device as a TV remote), although it's not like USB->IrDA dongles are hard to come by. BlueTooth and 802.11 are extremely useful (even more so for a PC, but useful even on a PDA), especially for internet and hands-free connectivity - and for a full keyboard. If they can be added, I think they should be, even though USB dongles are available.
RS232 may be cheap, but bear in mind it'd need a proprietary connector (unless the size of a 9-pin D is acceptable, which seems doubtful). I guess the dongle could be sold separately. I'm sure parallel has gone the way of the dodo for anything this device needs.
Have you ever used one of Sony-Ericsson's smart phones? I wouldn't use the phrases "good", "reliable" or "safe" about them (nor "fast" or "intuitive"). Just "better than the alternative", which is why I've got them (and I dislike Microsoft on principle).
I suggest going to Linux as my preference. With the greater following it will also open up a market by Linux fans. MickySoft CE(sorry I mean Microsoft
Hmm. I'm a fan of Linux. In something that looks like a PC, it's good. In something that's proprietary, it's a lot of work. Qt isn't, in my experience, brilliant, and X11 isn't necessarily a starting point for a PDA. There's no one standard (nor even one standard basic distribution) which people are using for PDAs. Sharp launched the Zaurus with Linux on it, and the first thing that people did was replace it with their own build of Debian. Nor is Linux, generally, necessarily designed to work well in a PDA in the way that EPOC32 was. I doubt Microsoft would be willing to do the hard work for us, especially for a monochrome screen (and after what we just said about them), and likewise those responsible for Symbian, so I don't see an obvious alternative to Linux (especially for the money), but it's not going to be cheap, and the GUI isn't going to be standard. Of course, since most PDA GUIs stink (IMHO) that's not catastrophic, but designing the whole UI and application suites from scratch is a big ask. Linux gets you drivers, but if you have your own GUI then what you have it the ability to run as many command line utilities as you like; that suits me fine (give me xemacs and I'm happy, even without X support), but probably won't appeal to Joe Public. Running Gnome/KDE on it isn't likely to be practical.
Don't get me wrong, I'd enjoy the challenge of coding up a PDA OS from scratch (I like OS development, and I'm an ARM hacker), but I'd want paying and a lenient schedule.
Absolutely - this being the main reason for the weird sliding keyboard.
Glad to hear that; it didn't sound insurmountable.
I'm not into undue reverence here. Resting the screen against the back of the case so that it's got a lot of leverage holding it firm is the important thing. I don't think copying the exact mechanism is vital so long as the effect is the same.
I feel the attempt to support the tablet PC format as well is detrimental to stability and size of a number of devices (notably the JasJar). The Vadem Clio seems to have relatively enormous hinges around the side of the screen compared with the Psion; it seems unlikely to be as sturdy, and the Psion's arrangement keeps the whole of the front of the screen area free. I think that's important; laptops can get away with sturdy screen hinges, but Psions are inherently flimsy and need some geometry to make things solid.
I'm sure the software features aren't a problem (h.264 is ain't). Why would you need a stereo mike? A headphone socket would be good; microphone may be overkill (audio sockets stick a long way into the case and take up space). There's always the ability to use a BlueTooth headset.
I'm afraid I'm dubious. Generally, when looking at a none-too-bright screen, the last thing I want is my dark adaptation ruined by something bright reflecting off the keys. I may be too much of a touch-type snob, though.
You can get USB lights. I admit that it's not going to cost much to add, but I'd hope the screen lighting would be of some use (maybe it could be deflected). I'll admit to using my phone's backlight as an illumination source, although I too have a key fob LED. I doubt it'd do much better than a key ring LED, though - putting lots of LEDs starts to take up space and suck power.
I'm inclined to agree. If this isn't going to double as a phone, a lot of phones have cameras in anyway. Using it to drive a web cam has some appeal. There's an argument for always having a camera on your PDA, but it's pretty much the same argument as having one on your phone - and I agree about the screen. The fewer the bells and whistles, the easier it is to make this affordable - especially in low volumes.
I think that's possible. Would anyone buy it, though? I'd find it interesting, but I'm not sure I'd need one. The PDA market is, as far as I've seen, shrinking in comparison with the smart phone market (in spite of manufacturers attempting to mess up the smart phones). With the price trimmed enough I might be more tempted, but you need to sell a lot for that to happen.
Actually, interesting - as someone who dislikes Microsoft (and is based in Europe), I was unaware of the NEC. It does, at least, validate the USB idea. However, I agree that it's huge (it's quite a lot bigger than my Libretto, for example), and once you've got to that kind of size I've always thought you're better off with a "real" PC.
I agree - I believe there's a current gap in the market. Of course, I also think there's a gap for a cheap PC in this form factor with a decent keyboard, but that doesn't invalidate the PDA thoughts.
I was with you right up to the last sentence.
Firstly, I agree that there's probably a gap for something capable of running for a very long time on batteries, since that seems to be something you're after; however, it's always going to look a bit less glossy to the general public, so - however useful - it may do better in industrial sales than as a consumer item.I'm wary about Linux giving it a big following, even as someone who uses it all the time (including on my Libretto): there have been a lot of Linux PDAs, but they've not taken over from Symbian or WinCE yet. Barring big money support I don't have a better option, but nor do I think Linux would mean that the software would magically appear (at least at the user application level). Yes, you could port X11 and OpenOffice, but whether that's a viable alternative to some "proper" PDA apps is another matter.
But I could be talking nonsense, and naturally be a pessimist...
--
Fluppeteer
Hi Horsey. Welcome to the discussion (as someone who's posted here too much - I've no authority!) There's a lot I want to put on the wiki, but I wanted to reply to your post first. It's going to sound like I disagree with you a lot, which isn't the case; every decision is a trade-off, so I just want to point out the disadvantages, as well as benefits, as I see them in your suggestions for the purposes of discussion. Assume I'm playing devil's advocate at least some of the time.
To give an equivalent bit of background, I'm a software engineer. I've been using various bits of kit for years, but I never owned a Psion (although I've currently got one on loan for examination), so I defer to other people's direct experience. I've used a Newton, Palm (III, IIIc), Zaurus (briefly) and two Sony Ericsson smart phones (P800, currently P910i) in my time. I also carry an old Libretto (x86 ultraportable), and own a couple of others.
That's a little harsh - I don't think we need to be absolutely rigid about the size. So long as the keyboard and screen aren't restricted, and so long as it's about as pocketable, we're in the same spirit. A 5MX that's a few mm thinner won't turn it into a 9500; a couple of mm longer won't make it a NetBook. Something close enough to be "the same form factor" is all I'm bothered about, and I don't want to lose out on technology just to make it fit in a 5mx carry case. (My Libretto fits in my Newton's carry case, FWIW.) I certainly don't think we should be aiming much bigger or smaller, though.
I agree about the trade offs. Every one would love all and everything in a match box that with one push of a secret button suddenly expands to a full blown note book with 6 months battery life, 200watt sound bla bla etc. Reality says we still live in early 20xx so it ain’t going to happen.
If you had ever tried the Psion Revo you will realise that this was a mistake by Psion. The Libretto was as you say is a good size. A few mm either way is not a big deal but it must be pocket sized (my Psion 5MX has shiny corners and edges from living in my pocket for all these years (8 years to be exact).
Again, I know the keyboard is the famous feature of the 5 series, but I'm not so religious about keeping it entirely unmodified. The important thing is to make something equally usable. It's not as nice as the Libretto's (which is, to be fair, quite a bit larger). Most significantly, dealing with the rim under the space bar, which rubs the side of my thumb then I hit space, would be good. The 5's keyboard is hugely better than the direct competition, though (even the Revo), and I absolutely agree that it's the primary distinguishing factor of this over every other PDA on the market.
You have not typed out 48000 documents/faxes/ quotes etc on this PDA. I have and there is nothing to match this. I found the Libreto lousy in comparison when typing for long periods. I have done more documents/ files on my 5MX than on my PC and only because it is so much faster and more reliable.
I agree about removing the icons and having a bigger screen. Upping the resolution helps (I'm a pixel junkie, so if there were no downside I'd be pushing for silly resolution), although it adds to the cost. I gather (from what else you say) that you're in the "PDA with a decent keyboard" camp rather than the "pocketable PC" camp; given this, the benefits to extra resolution are relatively limited. I agree that modern technology ought to make a better resolution - and certainly better contrast - possible though.
Definitely in the PDA with good KB camp. I use it for typing documents while standing in queues at the bank or shopping malls (here in SA we have lousy service providers) or during ad breaks while watching F1. Its ready in an instant. I don’t see the need for being able to do a CAD or graphic on a PDA. It’s screen by virtue of what it is, is not really intended for this kind of use. If you want to use it for presentations / graphics then get a bigger screened item such as a notebook.
A colour screen makes a massive difference in the ultraportable PC space, which is one of the reasons for the relative drop in battery life compared with a PDA. The Psion's screen isn't actually much smaller than my Libretto's, so I'm not sure I'd argue that there are limits to what can be done on it artistically - and higher resolution helps. Almost every modern PDA has a full colour screen with decent backlighting, and there's a danger that not being able to match this will make a new Psion seem outdated. In the PDA space, I suspect the practical consideration comes down to whether a better web browsing experience is worth sacrificing run-time; clearly you feel it isn't. A decent colour screen has a serious overhead in lighting (and a transflective one is inherently dimmer than a monochrome one). I'm wary of over-dependency on the ability to use AA batteries; it's very convenient, but you can get a lot of power in a lithium ion pack that can be hidden in the main unit more easily (and there's always the option of an AA backup for an extra hour or so when the internal battery dies).
For the most readable display per unit power consumption, if colour isn't an issue, we're probably looking at eInk. It's a new technology and probably not that cheap (or available as a commodity), though.
I have read about eInk. Will be amazing if they get the technology right.
Having played with the Nokia 9500 and the Libereto, I see the difference with mono to color, but at the expense of battery power, I don’t really know if I would go the color route.
My concern is that a distinguishing feature of the 5's screen is how extremely thin it is; this is partly because of the E-L backlight. So long as LED lighting doesn't cause an issue here (and a "decent colour" screen will be thicker anyway) I agree that white is nicer than green. With eInk, there's the option of front-lighting.
LED’s the size of pin heads can be fitted at the edge of the screen so no space is taken up, in fact the space saved (in screen thickness due to the E-L and the PCB space used by the E-L driving circuit) would make the screen thinner and allow more PCB space on the motherboard. LED’s are also far more efficient then E-L so saving battery power.
Interesting. The Libretto has a joystick (although there are touch-screen variants) which I concede is a bit of a pain, but having a keyboard makes a bit difference in usability so long as the UI works with it. I've always been a bit wary of touch-screen GUIs, especially when one is expected to use a finger to make smeary marks over the screen (hear that, Apple?) but I don't have much of a feel for how useful the touch-screen is on the Psion. I'm always annoyed to have to use it on my P910; the keyboard and the scroll wheel are almost, but not quite, enough (e.g. you can write a text message, but not send it without the stylus). Speaking of which, a scroll wheel on the side is very handy, in my experience.
In the PDA form factor, the touch screen is probably more useful than the micro-laptop - desktop operating systems aren't really designed for touch-screen use, and having decent resolution makes the touch-screen harder to use. While I'm not going to go against the touch-screen idea for a PDA, I'm wary of whether it would cost more (probably not so much if you're not trying to retrofit one to a laptop screen) or impact on the screen quality/thickness.
I agree, the Psion would have been thinner but only by a few mm if the touch screen was taken out. File searching on a good touch screen it just so incredibly fast. If you get a good accurate touch screen monitor on a PC you may just change your mind about touch screens. I nearly doubled my work output on CAD and graphics work just by having a touch screen on my PC. This should stay. Also the pen inside the stylus should stay. It works for me. One less item to carry around.
Seriously, you'd use this constantly for 20 hours in a row without bringing spare power? I still argue that there are two separate usage scenarios: you want something small to use for a long time, or you want something tiny that you can carry everywhere. Carrying a spare case the size of the Psion that's entirely battery and lets you run for a month, or even a set of replacement (rechargable) batteries, wouldn't be ridiculous if you know you're going to be on the go for 20 hours. You don't want to be weighed down by this all the time, but unless you frequent lifts that get stuck I doubt it's often that a 20-hour job will sneak up on you. However, everyone has their own requirements, so the fact that I'm surprised doesn't mean your requirements are invalid.
A PDA-style Psion can reasonably be charged (or even run) from a USB dongle, although the power available is limited if staying within spec is important. It may be practical to support AA batteries as a back-up to an internal device; I remain a bit dubious about running for 20 hours on traditional cells alone without severe limitations on the performance of the device. If battery life is more important than anything else, this is not necessarily a problem, but obviously it's not going to make the device good for browsing flash-heavy web pages. Note that you can buy AA batteries with integrated USB connectors, from which they can be recharged (neat, but expensive). There is no standard for rechargable lithium ion batteries in conventional sizes, as far as I know; less charge density will be available from NiMH. I see no problem with a solar cell optional extra, although you'd need very good sunlight if it were used for running as well as charging.
There is a 3,6V Li Ion battery the size of 2 x AA batteries in length. If this was used as the general batteries then if they go flat they could be replaced with 2 x AA if need be. Also spare 3v6 or 2 could be taken along if need be. So maybe 20 hours is a bit long but definitely not less then 10 hours. I know that I am in regular contact on an average day with some kind of power source (car lighter or USB from a PC etc) so for most days I am ok. Just long trips without power tend to be ackward (camping, hiking etc). A USB port from a PC should be able to supply 0,5 amp. If we only draw 0,3 amp we are well within the limits. Also the 3v6 Li Ion battery I spoke about come in a 3,5Ahr type. Should keep the NP going for 10 hours. The 5MX only uses about 65mA by comparison and that is why it get 40 hours out of a set of AA batteries.
The reason for sticking with compact flash is precisely that it's big, and therefore it can be used for multiple devices. You can get readers for all the other common formats that fit in a compact flash slot. You can get video cards, modems and ethernet adaptors that fit in a compact flash slot. You can get wifi and bluetooth, although I admit that they're available in SD too (although last I looked - admittedly years back - they weren't so standardised as the CF versions). Unlike USB, they're generally designed to be very low power. That said, I admit that an SD reader would be smaller, and USB sockets would solve the problem almost as well and more flexibly. I quite like my idea of having a spare (Li-poly) battery that could fit in the CF slot, but I may be biased because I came up with it. Some additional storage is good, but if we go with SD we'll alienate users of other storage types (hello, Sony). If space is a limitation, why not go for MiniSD or MicroSD?
I'll concede that SD is the format I'd most back as an alternative to CF, though, partly because of it supporting both MiniSD and MicroSD via adaptors. I recommend the SanDisk SD cards with integrated USB connectors, but having something inside the case for long term use has some appeal.
A HD is vital for the micro-laptop view of this item; 8GB is small for a PC, and hard disks are vastly more economical per unit price. The same isn't true on a PDA, especially one incapable of media playback. Laptop hard disks are surprisingly robust, but I concur that in a PDA it's probably unwise.
Now I know why the battery won’t last long. Blue tooth and wifi use plenty power. I don’t see the Li Ion 3v6 mentioned above lasting over 5 or 6 hours with these on board. Also the extra circuitry for this is bigger than having a connector on the board. As full sized keyboard (don’t really see the need though) is right next to the NP why not just use the USB plug? Use the second USB plug for the fone if you want to get on the net.
As for memory, the SD is only going to get better and bigger (16gig coming soon) and more of a standard than the Sony or any other formats( sorry Sony, just the truth) so this is my format.
I agree (although I'm wary of covering the outside with too many connectors when very small USB hubs are available, partly because the more exposed connectors the more there is to get gummed up). If you're serious about the AA batteries, be wary of how long you can use a powered USB socket for. External hard disks often need two USB sockets to pull enough power; unless an extra source is available, this may be an issue. There's an argument for allowing two inputs from a PC, one only doubling the power available, to allow for powering a pass-through device.
Re. serial... *getting* out-dated? Not that parallel was ever a practical options. Serial is useful for some people using Psions in custom projects, but there's always the USB to RS232 dongle approach.
Ideally the only sockets / peripherals on the NP should be plugs as any extra add on’s or dongles are just extra luggage. That is why 2 USB ports min but maybe even 3. 1 for fone & 1 for printer and/or 1 for keyboard (don’t know why). Or 1 for bigger screen & 1 for printer and 1 for fone. Also needed are audio & RS232 (may be?)
I'm a fan of IR on the principle that my older laptops support it, and giving them anything else is a pain. Also I seem to have bad luck with BlueTooth. If it doesn't add to the size, it's good (and you can use the device as a TV remote), although it's not like USB->IrDA dongles are hard to come by. BlueTooth and 802.11 are extremely useful (even more so for a PC, but useful even on a PDA), especially for internet and hands-free connectivity - and for a full keyboard. If they can be added, I think they should be, even though USB dongles are available.
RS232 may be cheap, but bear in mind it'd need a proprietary connector (unless the size of a 9-pin D is acceptable, which seems doubtful). I guess the dongle could be sold separately. I'm sure parallel has gone the way of the dodo for anything this device needs.
RS232 technology just needs software as almost all processors can cater for this. Just the socket is the issue as you stated. As to IR it is still used and works for me. It is very easy to implement, it is small and costs next to nothing.
Have you ever used one of Sony-Ericsson's smart phones? I wouldn't use the phrases "good", "reliable" or "safe" about them (nor "fast" or "intuitive"). Just "better than the alternative", which is why I've got them (and I dislike Microsoft on principle).
I suggest going to Linux as my preference. With the greater following it will also open up a market by Linux fans. MickySoft CE(sorry I mean Microsoft
Hmm. I'm a fan of Linux. In something that looks like a PC, it's good. In something that's proprietary, it's a lot of work. Qt isn't, in my experience, brilliant, and X11 isn't necessarily a starting point for a PDA. There's no one standard (nor even one standard basic distribution) which people are using for PDAs. Sharp launched the Zaurus with Linux on it, and the first thing that people did was replace it with their own build of Debian. Nor is Linux, generally, necessarily designed to work well in a PDA in the way that EPOC32 was. I doubt Microsoft would be willing to do the hard work for us, especially for a monochrome screen (and after what we just said about them), and likewise those responsible for Symbian, so I don't see an obvious alternative to Linux (especially for the money), but it's not going to be cheap, and the GUI isn't going to be standard. Of course, since most PDA GUIs stink (IMHO) that's not catastrophic, but designing the whole UI and application suites from scratch is a big ask. Linux gets you drivers, but if you have your own GUI then what you have it the ability to run as many command line utilities as you like; that suits me fine (give me xemacs and I'm happy, even without X support), but probably won't appeal to Joe Public. Running Gnome/KDE on it isn't likely to be practical.
Don't get me wrong, I'd enjoy the challenge of coding up a PDA OS from scratch (I like OS development, and I'm an ARM hacker), but I'd want paying and a lenient schedule.
I tried Ubuntu recently. This is one cool distro. It won several awards lately. As I am only a recent convert (mainly due to Ubuntu), I am not sure of the impact of getting this onto the NP. I just see is as the only real way forward. Mr Amits (Average Man I The Street) will in years to come be seeing more of Linux as the world moves away from MS. Linux for firmware has already been available for a few years now in around 2 or 3 meg files. I realise that there will be different distros on the machines as people change them, but this is only superficial as it is still Linux reliability underneath but I bow to superior knowledge here.
Absolutely - this being the main reason for the weird sliding keyboard.
Glad to hear that; it didn't sound insurmountable.
I'm not into undue reverence here. Resting the screen against the back of the case so that it's got a lot of leverage holding it firm is the important thing. I don't think copying the exact mechanism is vital so long as the effect is the same.
I feel the attempt to support the tablet PC format as well is detrimental to stability and size of a number of devices (notably the JasJar). The Vadem Clio seems to have relatively enormous hinges around the side of the screen compared with the Psion; it seems unlikely to be as sturdy, and the Psion's arrangement keeps the whole of the front of the screen area free. I think that's important; laptops can get away with sturdy screen hinges, but Psions are inherently flimsy and need some geometry to make things solid.
I never really got to play with the Clio much but it felt neat when I first saw it on a show stand some years ago. You may have a point here.
I'm sure the software features aren't a problem (h.264 is ain't). Why would you need a stereo mike? A headphone socket would be good; microphone may be overkill (audio sockets stick a long way into the case and take up space). There's always the ability to use a BlueTooth headset.
All mike sockets are mono including PC mike inputs. I only use it for dictation purposes. I have an in the “ear with a short boom mike” piece I use on my PC (its small and neat). Would like to use this for dictation when in noisy environments. The MP3 is for listening to commentary or recorded meetings and also some occasional music. Blue tooth uses battery power and PCB space (more than a 3,5mm socket would take). You may as well get a proper notebook if you want this feature. Also Blue tooth is not always allowed on planes. Not being to clued up on compression formats, is h264 a difficult format?
I'm afraid I'm dubious. Generally, when looking at a none-too-bright screen, the last thing I want is my dark adaptation ruined by something bright reflecting off the keys. I may be too much of a touch-type snob, though.
I have tried this and the concept does work. As the edge of the screen is so far away from the KB it does not reflect from the KB (the reflected angle is way off). It also lights up some of the space around the KB, which had my notes or document lying on it.
You can get USB lights. I admit that it's not going to cost much to add, but I'd hope the screen lighting would be of some use (maybe it could be deflected). I'll admit to using my phone's backlight as an illumination source, although I too have a key fob LED. I doubt it'd do much better than a key ring LED, though - putting lots of LEDs starts to take up space and suck power.
USB torch is just another add on to lug around. I have played with 3 mm and even some SMD LED’s. 2 of these at 10mA each are very bright (should last for 175 hours with the 3v6 Li Ion bat). If just needing a torch to get around in darkness then this is all that is needed and I would rather not have to open the NP just to find the torch function.
I'm inclined to agree. If this isn't going to double as a phone, a lot of phones have cameras in anyway. Using it to drive a web cam has some appeal. There's an argument for always having a camera on your PDA, but it's pretty much the same argument as having one on your phone - and I agree about the screen. The fewer the bells and whistles, the easier it is to make this affordable - especially in low volumes.
Totally agree with you. Use the USB to back up a decent SLR camera and leave it at that.
I think that's possible. Would anyone buy it, though? I'd find it interesting, but I'm not sure I'd need one. The PDA market is, as far as I've seen, shrinking in comparison with the smart phone market (in spite of manufacturers attempting to mess up the smart phones). With the price trimmed enough I might be more tempted, but you need to sell a lot for that to happen.
Smart fones are for people who can’t afford a decent PDA (I expect to get slugged for this statement). PDAs are for people who do not always lug their notebook around with them but don’t want to be out of touch with their info. Mine goes shopping with me, to the local pub etc. I got married with it in my pocket (had my speech in it). I get my best ideas while driving so I just pick it up and start dictating. I only have my 5MX, a leatherman, my wallet and my keys in my pockets.
Actually, interesting - as someone who dislikes Microsoft (and is based in Europe), I was unaware of the NEC. It does, at least, validate the USB idea. However, I agree that it's huge (it's quite a lot bigger than my Libretto, for example), and once you've got to that kind of size I've always thought you're better off with a "real" PC.
I agree - I believe there's a current gap in the market. Of course, I also think there's a gap for a cheap PC in this form factor with a decent keyboard, but that doesn't invalidate the PDA thoughts.
I was with you right up to the last sentence.
Firstly, I agree that there's probably a gap for something capable of running for a very long time on batteries, since that seems to be something you're after; however, it's always going to look a bit less glossy to the general public, so - however useful - it may do better in industrial sales than as a consumer item.I'm wary about Linux giving it a big following, even as someone who uses it all the time (including on my Libretto): there have been a lot of Linux PDAs, but they've not taken over from Symbian or WinCE yet. Barring big money support I don't have a better option, but nor do I think Linux would mean that the software would magically appear (at least at the user application level). Yes, you could port X11 and OpenOffice, but whether that's a viable alternative to some "proper" PDA apps is another matter.
But I could be talking nonsense, and naturally be a pessimist...
I am now getting the impression that Linux would take some work to get it to fit into the NP. Well if it can be found in a casing design as good as the NP how long will it be before other PDA’s follow, then next the smart fones?? Move over MS CE
Alternatively the NP may just need a full blown mini PC to get Linux on it easy.
As an ARM chip hacker have you seen the latest ARM chip. I saw something on an ARM chip from Atmel (I think) a few weeks ago. It had onboard SD eemem IO, wifi IO, keyboard port, LCD port, 802,11 port, camera (also a version available without camera) and a whole load of other extras. I can hunt down the part no if you need?
mifritscher
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Chris Cooper
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