Instrumentation on "Wouldn't It Be Nice"??

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Don Pearce wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 07:56:11 -0400, Jim Gilliland
> <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote:
>
>
>>playon wrote:
>>>
>>>No Mellotrons either.
>>
>>Are you sure about that? "Days Of Future Passed" came along in 1967.

> Pretty good history of the origins of the Mellotron here:
>
> http://www.mellotron.com/history.htm

Interesting stuff - I didn't know that much about the history of the
instrument. I remember Mike Pinder opening it up for me and showing me
the internals at a concert here back in the fall of 1968. (WHK
Ballroom, Cleveland).
 
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in article _c-dnY2BrL71qpfcRVn-vw@adelphia.com, Jim Gilliland at
usemylastname@cheerful.com wrote on 7/30/04 7:56 AM:

>> No Mellotrons either.
>
> Are you sure about that? "Days Of Future Passed" came along in 1967.

Mellotrons don't work very well for plucked or struck sounds.
Wouldn't it be Nice was tracked January 1966.

I agree with Guido - Vox Mandoguitar & Fender electric mandolin.
 
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umbriaco wrote:

> in article _c-dnY2BrL71qpfcRVn-vw@adelphia.com, Jim Gilliland at
> usemylastname@cheerful.com wrote on 7/30/04 7:56 AM:
>
>>>No Mellotrons either.
>>
>>Are you sure about that? "Days Of Future Passed" came along in 1967.
>
> Mellotrons don't work very well for plucked or struck sounds.
> Wouldn't it be Nice was tracked January 1966.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it had been used on "Wouldn't It Be
Nice". It's pretty obvious that that wasn't a Mellotron. I just
questioned that it hadn't been around in 1966.
 
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> Any die hard Beach Boys fans know what was used?

If I remember right from the Granata book on Pet Sounds (referred to
in another post), it's Billy Strange on a "detuned" guitar all by
himself.
 
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garthrr@aol.com (Garth) wrote in message news:<20040730042715.22164.00000083@mb-m05.aol.com>...
> In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
> <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
>
> >Animix wrote:
> >
> >> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back in 66?
> >
>
> I doubt it. One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is how Brian
> Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would consider to be)
> improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani etc. He was getting
> sounds that would, in later decades, be accessable mainly via synthesizers.
>
> Garth~


Thank goodness that Moog synthesizers were so rare in that day. Brian
Wilson was doing the accoustical version of that long before "Pet
Sounds".

He would so often 'ride' something on top of Carol Kaye's Fender bass
track, e.g. The opening to the song "Dance, Dance, Dance" was actually
an exception, where the plucked upright bass was incorporated, as
distinct from the electric bass there.

But otherwise, he would so often use horns, or bass saxes, or piano,
or harpsichord, note-for-note, to augment the bass line.

I used to think that the Beach Boys music had a bigger bass sound just
because it was louder. I learned later that the double low saxes in
"She's Not The Little Girl I Once Knew" or the horns also following
the bass line in "Here Today" on 'Pet Sounds' was such a big part of
that huge sound. (not to forget the harpsichord, changing the flavor
of the bass, yet again, near the end of that song)

I'm not even going to go into how some 20-23 year old who wrote only
simple popular tunes, with no musical theory training whatsoever,
could come up with 13'th chord harmony vocals and melodic, non-tonic
related bass lines.

It wobbles the mind.



JF
 
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> > Any die hard Beach Boys fans know what was used?
>
> If I remember right from the Granata book on Pet Sounds (referred to
> in another post), it's Billy Strange on a "detuned" guitar all by
> himself.


I just went to to Billy's website and left the question at his forum.
It certainly sounds like a fretted instrument to me. The "detuned"
guitar seems most likely.
 
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I was lucky enough to interview Brian Wilson for the Illinois Entertainer when
his "Imagination" album came out, and I asked him this very question. He said
it was two guitars, one of which was a Fender Mustang.

Matt
 
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Onajemvsic1@aol.com (JMS) wrote in message news:<acfc943a.0407310622.34cafaf6@posting.google.com>...
> > > Any die hard Beach Boys fans know what was vsed?
> >
> > If I remember right from the Granata book on Pet Sovnds (referred to
> > in another post), it's Billy Strange on a "detvned" gvitar all by
> > himself.
>
>
> I jvst went to to Billy's website and left the qvestion at his forvm.
> It certainly sovnds like a fretted instrvment to me. The "detvned"
> gvitar seems most likely.


Compliments of Carol Kaye via Rvss Wapensky:

Billy Strange and Jerry Cole on elec. 12-strings, here's Rvss
Wapensky's email that jvst came in (and he's qvoting from the Local 47
Recording Contracts which he alone has a data-base on - ovtside of the
Union)...

>>>>>Carol,
It was Billy Strange and Jerry Cole on electric 12s.
Rvss<<<<
 
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Garth wrote:
> In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
> <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> Animix wrote:
>>
>>> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back
>>> in 66?
>>
>
> I doubt it. One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is
> how Brian Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would
> consider to be) improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani
> etc. He was getting sounds that would, in later decades, be
> accessable mainly via synthesizers.


But did he even know he was doing it ?

geoff
 
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Altasrecrd wrote:
> I was lucky enough to interview Brian Wilson for the Illinois
> Entertainer when his "Imagination" album came out, and I asked him
> this very question. He said it was two guitars, one of which was a
> Fender Mustang.


Would he remember - or did that phase come later ?

geoff
 
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In article <cdf5c97b.0407302320.69a9904a@posting.google.com>,
jflx@earthlink.net says...
>
>
>garthrr@aol.com (Garth) wrote in message
>news:<20040730042715.22164.00000083@mb-m05.aol.com>...
>> In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
>> <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
>>
>> >Animix wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back in
66?
>> >
>>
>> I doubt it. One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is how
Brian
>> Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would consider to be)
>> improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani etc. He was getting
>> sounds that would, in later decades, be accessable mainly via synthesizers.
>>
>> Garth~
>
>
>Thank goodness that Moog synthesizers were so rare in that day. Brian
>Wilson was doing the accoustical version of that long before "Pet
>Sounds".
>
>He would so often 'ride' something on top of Carol Kaye's Fender bass
>track, e.g. The opening to the song "Dance, Dance, Dance" was actually
>an exception, where the plucked upright bass was incorporated, as
>distinct from the electric bass there.
>
>But otherwise, he would so often use horns, or bass saxes, or piano,
>or harpsichord, note-for-note, to augment the bass line.
>
>I used to think that the Beach Boys music had a bigger bass sound just
>because it was louder. I learned later that the double low saxes in
>"She's Not The Little Girl I Once Knew" or the horns also following
>the bass line in "Here Today" on 'Pet Sounds' was such a big part of
>that huge sound. (not to forget the harpsichord, changing the flavor
>of the bass, yet again, near the end of that song)
>
>I'm not even going to go into how some 20-23 year old who wrote only
>simple popular tunes, with no musical theory training whatsoever,
>could come up with 13'th chord harmony vocals and melodic, non-tonic
>related bass lines.
>
>It wobbles the mind.

He had a certain amount of theory training at his high school, IIRC. He was
also very into The Four Freshmen, and reportedly dissected their
vocal arrangements as part of his self-imposed musical education. Beach Boys'
harmonies were very influenced by Four Freshmen harmonies. Bringing chromatic,
jazz-influenced harmonies into the diatonic world of '60s rock 'n' roll was a
very radical thing at the time.
 
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"Geoff Wood" <geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam> wrote in message
news:ZzSPc.1597$zS6.195120@news02.tsnz.net...
> Garth wrote:
> > In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
> > <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
> >
> >> Animix wrote:
> >>> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back
> >>> in 66?

NO.

> > I doubt it

The Moog modular was the only option AFAIK.

TonyP.
 
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"Geoff Wood" <geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam> wrote in message news:<ZzSPc.1597$zS6.195120@news02.tsnz.net>...
> Garth wrote:
> > In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
> > <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
> >
> >> Animix wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back
> >>> in 66?
> >>
> >
> > I doubt it. One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is
> > how Brian Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would
> > consider to be) improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani
> > etc. He was getting sounds that would, in later decades, be
> > accessable mainly via synthesizers.
>
>
> But did he even know he was doing it ?
>
> geoff

are you joking, geoff? i can't tell if that's a joke based on his
later SMiLE era breakdown or if you're proposing that he
compositionally (or chemically) stumbled upon it. :)

just in case you weren't kidding around, everything i've read and
heard in both direct quotes by Brian Wilson and people around him at
the time paint the picture that everything he was doing on Pet Sounds
was very deliberate.

of course, the concept wasn't new. he was always sort of trying to
achieve his own take on the Phil Spector thing, but what he achieved
was certainly very much Brian Wilson.
 
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Robert Orban <donotreply@spamblock.com> wrote in message news:<7cadnes4qqqS1ozcRVn-qQ@giganews.com>...
> In article <cdf5c97b.0407302320.69a9904a@posting.google.com>,
> jflx@earthlink.net says...
> >
> >
> >garthrr@aol.com (Garth) wrote in message
> >news:<20040730042715.22164.00000083@mb-m05.aol.com>...
> >> In article <41093D1E.879E2E65@comcast.net>, Don Cooper
> >> <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Animix wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Oops........maybe Synclavier? Did they even have Synclavier's back in
> 66?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I doubt it. One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is how
> Brian
> >> Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would consider to be)
> >> improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani etc. He was getting
> >> sounds that would, in later decades, be accessable mainly via synthesizers.
> >>
> >> Garth~
> >
> >
> >Thank goodness that Moog synthesizers were so rare in that day. Brian
> >Wilson was doing the accoustical version of that long before "Pet
> >Sounds".
> >
> >He would so often 'ride' something on top of Carol Kaye's Fender bass
> >track, e.g. The opening to the song "Dance, Dance, Dance" was actually
> >an exception, where the plucked upright bass was incorporated, as
> >distinct from the electric bass there.
> >
> >But otherwise, he would so often use horns, or bass saxes, or piano,
> >or harpsichord, note-for-note, to augment the bass line.
> >
> >I used to think that the Beach Boys music had a bigger bass sound just
> >because it was louder. I learned later that the double low saxes in
> >"She's Not The Little Girl I Once Knew" or the horns also following
> >the bass line in "Here Today" on 'Pet Sounds' was such a big part of
> >that huge sound. (not to forget the harpsichord, changing the flavor
> >of the bass, yet again, near the end of that song)
> >
> >I'm not even going to go into how some 20-23 year old who wrote only
> >simple popular tunes, with no musical theory training whatsoever,
> >could come up with 13'th chord harmony vocals and melodic, non-tonic
> >related bass lines.
> >
> >It wobbles the mind.
>
> He had a certain amount of theory training at his high school, IIRC. He was
> also very into The Four Freshmen, and reportedly dissected their
> vocal arrangements as part of his self-imposed musical education. Beach Boys'
> harmonies were very influenced by Four Freshmen harmonies. Bringing chromatic,
> jazz-influenced harmonies into the diatonic world of '60s rock 'n' roll was a
> very radical thing at the time.

his dad was also a songwriter (though not NEARLY as good a one as his
son, which led to some ugly jealousy and bad treatment/manipulation
that fed into/created many of Brian's psychological problems) so he
did grow up around music...
 
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Geoff Wood wrote:

> > One of the coolest things about the album "Pet Sounds" is
> > how Brian Wilson got those unique sounds by combining (what I would
> > consider to be) improbable instruments such as accordions and tympani
> > etc. He was getting sounds that would, in later decades, be
> > accessable mainly via synthesizers.
>
> But did he even know he was doing it ?


I think he had a vision of the final product early on in the process.
Again, the "Pet Sounds" Box Set offers a wonderful glimpse into how
these sessions were conducted.
 
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Don Cooper <dcooper28800@comcast.net> writes:
>I think he had a vision of the final product early on in the process.
>Again, the "Pet Sounds" Box Set offers a wonderful glimpse into how
>these sessions were conducted.

Yeah. It's really something to hear this 20-something prodigy directing
the veteran LA session cats. He OBVIOUSLY knew what he was after.
 
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georgeh wrote:

> Yeah. It's really something to hear this 20-something prodigy directing
> the veteran LA session cats. He OBVIOUSLY knew what he was after.


The conversations through the talkback system are hysterical. He's
directing guys who are probably twice his age.

"What did he say? Whadda ya want here, Brian?"
 
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Don Cooper wrote:

> I think he had a vision of the final product early on in the process.
> Again, the "Pet Sounds" Box Set offers a wonderful glimpse into how
> these sessions were conducted.

That doesn't seem to be available any more. Anybody want to
sell theirs?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein