Judge: ISP Not Responsible for Illegal Downloads

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aethm

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[citation][nom]azxcvbnm321[/nom]Some sort of enforcement has to be found. Just looking at the entitlement attitude of these pirates shows that they'll accept no business model other than one that gives it to them for free, and throws in early release as well.[/citation]

I agree that some sort of enforcement should + could be implemented. The problem is that the entertainment industry is not willing to foot the cost of doing so.. they want to pass it on to taxpayers, ISP's, anyone but them. If someone steals a gumball from Walmart you can guarantee Walmart will be prosecuting. If someone is suspected of blatant piracy than said 'party of interest' should get a warrant, legally get permission to tap a persons internet use, catch said person in the act, then prosecute accordingly.
 

zak_mckraken

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In other news: contrary to the popular belief, car manufacturers are NOT responsible for people driving at 70 in a school zone.

Or, for our texan friends: Guns don't kill people, people kill people!

Who would have known?
 

brendano257

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Oh good lord! You mean they downloaded TV that's available steaming on line? How dare they!

/sarcasm

They need to get their heads out of their asses and realize how much money they make per year compared to the average bit torrent user. It's absurd, and their blunderings about lost profits are the result of an incredibly aged business model relying on filler songs, records, cd's and tapes. It doesn't work that way anymore, sorry.
 

annymmo

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That is a good judge, we need more of those!

Those greedy movie studio's are so stupid.
They don't realize the people pirate because their legally purchased DVD's and stuff don't play because the key is cracked.
In reality the customer still has paid for the DVD. Independent of the key. This system sucks and hopefully they'll provide something better. Death to DRM (Digital Rights, actually Restrictions Management) !!!!!!!!!

The best would be DVD's and other information carriers with a don't copy flag on it.
 

annymmo

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ISP's shouldn't bother with the customers data.
Also STFU about tier plans. We pay for the infrastructure, so DELIVER!!
There are also a lot of resources required that hold up all traffic to inspect that, currently that would cost the ISP's an insane amount of money to do this globally or on one continent.
 

sykozis

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[citation][nom]smashley[/nom]Interesting that they sued an Australian ISP. I'm just wondering if this is actually setting a precedent or not, or whether this would have gone the same way in an American court. Another question is that since ISPs aren't technically liable, are they then going to be expected to monitor what is downloaded and report illegal use to the authorities? Being from Canada for the most part, from my understanding is that downloading itself is fine, but uploading copyrighted material is where you can get into trouble.[/citation]


Well, in the case of Movie Studios v. US ISP, the FCC would have probably been involved at some point. Under US law, the ISPs can be forced to act upon their terms of service in cases of illegal downloads. In either case, I don't see the outcome really being much different unless the movie studios were to pay off the judge...which is nothing uncommon. If you look at scenerios, the affore mentioned scenerios of "drug trafficers use public roads" and the original post of a drunk driver in a Ford, the situation really is identical. The local and federal governments built the roads that drunk trafficers use...so, they've provided a path of travel for the drug trafficers, same as an ISP does for those downloading content illegally. How can you hold an ISP responsible for illegal downloads without holding local/federal gov't responsible for drug trafficing, or car manufacturers responsible for auto accidents or auto and alcohol makers responsible for alcohol related accidents? Ruling that the ISP is responsible for illegal downloads would set a precident in every case....suddenly the beer/liquor industry would be directly responsible for drunk drives...and the auto industry would be directly responsible for accidents.
 

tommysch

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[citation][nom]MDillenbeck[/nom]I see a lot of these types of analogies - but also consider:In the United States, if a bartender (equivalent to the ISP) serves drinks (equivalent to packets from a know torrent site containing pirated material) endlessly to a person who gets drunk and then gets in an accident when driving (equivalent to using pirated material), then it is possible that both the business AND the individual can be sued.So there are some cases where we say the provider of a service does have some liability. Another instance in the states would be the gun dealer who knowingly sells weapons without the required background check or filing the proper paper work.As to piracy itself, I believe it occurs due to outdated business models. For example, regional licensing means the BBC can only provide certain shows for streaming to UK IPs. Does this mean signing up for a proxy service in another country means you are engaging in piracy - and does that change whether you are a foreign national or a UK citizen who is currently abroad?There is also frustration and confusion with high-cost media, such as blu-ray or DVDs that now sell at a premium with a "digital copy". What do you own? Do you buy the physical disk, the right for you as an individual to watch the movie, or something else? If I buy a DVD, I can loan it to a friend - but if I buy a digital copy, it is tied to a specific machine and I can't even port it to another machine in another room of my own house!Thus I think the discussion needs to shift its focus on who is liable for what (although that is still an important discussion) to what is a reasonable business model along with what is reasonable limits to intellectual property.[/citation]

Your analogy is not accurate, the bartender is ACTIVELY serving you drinks. The dug dealer/public roads is a much more accurate analogy.

Its not like the ISP is actively putting illegal content in your hands.
 

randomizer

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[citation][nom]aethm[/nom]I'm not condoning piracy, but when I see the entertainment industry posting record profits year after year and still doing quite well in a recession, I don't "Feel for them"[/citation]
They are still entitled to their profits, regardless of how much they already make. I have no issue with the film industry or music industry making massive profits as long as they do so in a somewhat ethical way. Forever being in court is not the right way.

By the way, if you're looking for an independent study, there's one done by the author of Tweak Guides here. It's specifically aimed at game piracy, but the same principles apply in many cases.
 

grieve

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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]If child pornography is acquired by post, is the post responsible for not checking first? Should they be forced by law to inspect every parcel and letter (breaching privacy laws unless those are also changed), thereby increasing the costs of providing their service by orders of magnitude?[/citation]
That is the perfect example ^

I own two movies and make 20 copies... I mail these to 20 friends. Is the mail company responsible? I THINK NOT! clearly in this situation the mail company is the EXACT same as the ISP.
 

Hilarion

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[citation][nom]MDillenbeck[/nom]I see a lot of these types of analogies - but also consider:In the United States, if a bartender (equivalent to the ISP) serves drinks (equivalent to packets from a know torrent site containing pirated material) endlessly to a person who gets drunk and then gets in an accident when driving (equivalent to using pirated material), then it is possible that both the business AND the individual can be sued.So there are some cases where we say the provider of a service does have some liability. Another instance in the states would be the gun dealer who knowingly sells weapons without the required background check or filing the proper paper work.As to piracy itself, I believe it occurs due to outdated business models. For example, regional licensing means the BBC can only provide certain shows for streaming to UK IPs. Does this mean signing up for a proxy service in another country means you are engaging in piracy - and does that change whether you are a foreign national or a UK citizen who is currently abroad?There is also frustration and confusion with high-cost media, such as blu-ray or DVDs that now sell at a premium with a "digital copy". What do you own? Do you buy the physical disk, the right for you as an individual to watch the movie, or something else? If I buy a DVD, I can loan it to a friend - but if I buy a digital copy, it is tied to a specific machine and I can't even port it to another machine in another room of my own house!Thus I think the discussion needs to shift its focus on who is liable for what (although that is still an important discussion) to what is a reasonable business model along with what is reasonable limits to intellectual property.[/citation]
This is a bad analogy also. In the cases you mention there are tort laws involved which are actually bad law (my opinion.) As stated by the previous person that you quoted it is the equivalent of suing the town/state for providing the road that the drunk driver was on when they collided with you and killed your family member. It is the overreach of the media companies trying to cut people off without due process/expense in a court of law as required by (US at least) copyright law.
 
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