Microsoft Envisions a World Without Flash, Plugins

[gm0n3y]

[citation][nom]koga73[/nom]As a Flash developer... I see everyone just expects everything to go the way of HTML 5 and JavaScript... They need to make a real programming language to build web apps. I'm sorry but JavaScript is such a poor shitty language with no support for classes and architecture other than having to do nasty things with prototypes and namespaces. No typed variables. No constants. No security for compiled code besides obfuscation. The problems with JavaScript as a language go on and on...var javascript = PROGRAMMING_HELL; //Wait... you can't do that in javascript as it doesn't support constants.Not something I want to code in.[/citation]
I second the motion for a good client side programming language. Javascript is ok for some things and JQuery has made it a lot better, but it still sucks compared to modern languages.

 

[jacobdrj]

Computers are becoming sufficiently powerful, and Adobe is making sufficient progress towards making Flash palpable on smart-phone hardware... This is becoming less of an issue every day... Flash still sucks, but it's out there. Now it is just time for the wireless service providers to have an infrastructure that can handle the bandwidth, and not charge us an arm and a leg for it...

 

[jacobdrj]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Flash is only a resource hog for people with shitty PCs, everyone else in the world hardly even notices. And since when does hating Apple make me wrong, using inreducable complexity is never a good way to try and win an arguement.Apples beef with Flash was motivated purely by self interest, not the greater good, otherwise it would have allowed Flash as an App and let the customer decide.[/citation]
No. This has to do with mobile devices and battery life. Besides, I have had issues running flash on a Core 2 Quad with 4 Gigs of RAM and a 8800GT/4770 before... That is unacceptable. Not to mention they didn't have a 64 bit player until YouTube made their videos available in HTML5, threatening their market dominance...

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]jacobdrj[/nom]No. This has to do with mobile devices and battery life. Besides, I have had issues running flash on a Core 2 Quad with 4 Gigs of RAM and a 8800GT/4770 before... That is unacceptable.[/citation]
Let me guess, before hardware acceleration right? So that your super-duper setup was irellevant.
Have you tried it since?

 

[junixophobia]

Adobe is evil for making flash a resource hug but also for being a security nightmare and taking a month to fix that security hole

Apple is evil for selling a slow device and blaming resource hug apps (like flash) and pretending to care that they want to revolutionize web by html5

microsoft is proven evil (antitrust case) and you need the likes of apple to shun windows propagating its dominance in mobile and browsers.

As always, it is better that these company are fighting neck in neck that no one dominates. It spurs better thing for end users... imagine if they always get along together....

Look at what happened to OPEC, they always agree to raise the price of oil 8-|

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]jacobdrj[/nom]No. This has to do with mobile devices and battery life. Besides, I have had issues running flash on a Core 2 Quad with 4 Gigs of RAM and a 8800GT/4770 before... That is unacceptable. Not to mention they didn't have a 64 bit player until YouTube made their videos available in HTML5, threatening their market dominance...[/citation]
I suppose Flash for Android is universally derided as being rubbish?
http/techcrunch.com/2010/10/14/flash-for-android-hits-1-million-downloads/

Seems that 8% of capable handsets downloaded it in the first month of availability, I wonder how many it is now it has been a calendar year?

If Flash is so bad for mobile devices it appears users are voting with their feet.

 

[sundragon]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]So how is the current version of Flash, smaller, faster, more secure.OK where is the Apple App now?Won't ever be one, motivated self interest.[/citation]

Please elaborate or restate your point.
Apple has already stated what needs to change - Last year.
Microsoft just did the same.

 

[Ratsnackbar]

Apple trashed Flash because had they included it into their iOS it would have made the their App store pointless.

Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon because they were trying to push Silverlight as a Flash replacement.

Both of those technologies make the developer and thus the end user dependent upon the vendors (in this case Apple and Microsoft's) platforms.

Flash is independent of any particular OS or Platform. So it's possible to code an application one time and have it run on any operating system or browser. This opens up to application developers the ability to design an application once and market it to users of Windows, Mac, Linux and many flavors of Unix. This scares the crap out of Apple and Microsoft. Imagine an office application that works well on all platforms and what that would do to Microsofts cash cow Office? Or if Flash App stores started popping up everywhere and you had no need to purchase specifically from Apples cash cow "The App Store".

Both Apple and Microsoft have spent a great deal of time and I imagine money, towards marketing in an attempt to destroy Flash.

If they truly believed that HTML 5 was a better solution than they would both have simply focused on improving that technology and let the markets decide. But instead they are on a campaign to destroy flash.

This all leads me to believe that there is a long term strategy involved that can only see success if Flash is removed from the market as a competitor.

Anyone who truly understands the technologies involved, if honest, will tel you that Flash / AIR / AS3 is currently the better solution over HTML5 / JavaScript and Far better than Silverlight. The HTML 5 standard is moving too slowly to ever be able to compete with the abilities of Flash now or in the future.

My guess is that Apple and Microsoft both want to destroy flash in favor of HTML 5 for the moment. Then in a Post Flash world (they hope) when it turns out that HTML 5 just does not produce the desired results, When customers are looking for More, both companies plan introduce their own versions of software that in effect does the same thing Flash that locks you into their particular platforms.

 

[sundragon]

[citation][nom]Ratsnackbar[/nom]Apple trashed Flash because had they included it into their iOS it would have made the their App store pointless.Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon because they were trying to push Silverlight as a Flash replacement.Both of those technologies make the developer and thus the end user dependent upon the vendors (in this case Apple and Microsoft's) platforms.Flash is independent of any particular OS or Platform. So it's possible to code an application one time and have it run on any operating system or browser. This opens up to application developers the ability to design an application once and market it to users of Windows, Mac, Linux and many flavors of Unix. This scares the crap out of Apple and Microsoft. Imagine an office application that works well on all platforms and what that would do to Microsofts cash cow Office? Or if Flash App stores started popping up everywhere and you had no need to purchase specifically from Apples cash cow "The App Store".Both Apple and Microsoft have spent a great deal of time and I imagine money, towards marketing in an attempt to destroy Flash.If they truly believed that HTML 5 was a better solution than they would both have simply focused on improving that technology and let the markets decide. But instead they are on a campaign to destroy flash.This all leads me to believe that there is a long term strategy involved that can only see success if Flash is removed from the market as a competitor.Anyone who truly understands the technologies involved, if honest, will tel you that Flash / AIR / AS3 is currently the better solution over HTML5 / JavaScript and Far better than Silverlight. The HTML 5 standard is moving too slowly to ever be able to compete with the abilities of Flash now or in the future.My guess is that Apple and Microsoft both want to destroy flash in favor of HTML 5 for the moment. Then in a Post Flash world (they hope) when it turns out that HTML 5 just does not produce the desired results, When customers are looking for More, both companies plan introduce their own versions of software that in effect does the same thing Flash that locks you into their particular platforms.[/citation]

Good point, MS's Silverlight is obviously a direct competitor to Flash but why didn't they attack Flash when they first introduced Silverlight? Why now?

And what is the Apple - Flash connection? Other than not wanting to support Flash which works pretty badly on portable devices such as Android phones - it sucks battery life and opens the door to malicious attacks.

Apple does not not make money on HTML 5, it doesn't have a Flash alternative. Saying the App store will have issues with Flash content makes no sense - Apple makes money on every app sold - They also manage the quality of the apps and prevent most of the useless ones from getting into customers hands (though they can be heavy handed with their restraint).




MS and Apple are both investing in HTML 5 with their browsers.

 

[sundragon]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]I suppose Flash for Android is universally derided as being rubbish? http/techcrunch.com/2010/10/14/f [...] downloads/Seems that 8% of capable handsets downloaded it in the first month of availability, I wonder how many it is now it has been a calendar year?If Flash is so bad for mobile devices it appears users are voting with their feet.[/citation]

Flash is not rubbish, and but Adobe needs to do a better job of updating and optimizing because it's so popular. The alternative is to move another technology. I hear the developers and their cry for something easier to write than Java - Hopefully Adobe will start putting some $$ into Flash and optimize it for the graphics chips in Android/iOS phones and make it more secure by design.

On a personal note - I have seen Flash implemented on Android phones first hand - drains battery like a vampire. Friends who have Android phones have mentioned how much it affects their battery life. My mom's dual core Android tablet - It has a battery large enough that you don't notice it.

So many people are downloading it, because it's an option - which is great - but it's a battery drain.

 

[someoneelse]

The only reason I have flash installed is to watch videos on Youtube.

Once they get the video tag and codec in html 5 I won't need Flash. I know flash can do wonderful complex things but I don't care. I only use flash for video.

However I will miss taking a copy of a flash videos out of the video cache using nirsoft videocacheview.