Newbie help needed - Recording two shows at once

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
> subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.

Development costs money and subs help fund it. Thanks for doing your part.

> I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
> dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?

G'head and wait, meanwhile the rest of us value being able to use it now and
don't mind the small fee.

 

[frank]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
of cause with you?

If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
subscription cost, right?

If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
just won't be making a purchase right now.

As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.

I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.

I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
1% of.



On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:21:02 -0400, "wkearney99"
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
>> subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.
>
>Development costs money and subs help fund it. Thanks for doing your part.
>
>> I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
>> dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?
>
>G'head and wait, meanwhile the rest of us value being able to use it now and
>don't mind the small fee.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <fkt3e1lrjcstve2qi7fio776m36afjlmi1@4ax.com>, Frank
<Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:

> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
> way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
> presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
> of cause with you?
>
> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
> subscription cost, right?
>
> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

They sell you their razor at a loss because they want to keep selling
you their blades at a profit. This is not a complicated concept.

You're insisting that a company that makes a machine you clearly don't
want follow an amateurish business model of your own devising simply
because you think things should be that way. The important thing to
most TiVo users is not the machine, but the service. I think it's well
worth the price. You don't. You should seek out and buy a machine
that will do what you want it to do the way you want to do it, or just
keep on using your VCRs.

> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.

> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
> just won't be making a purchase right now.
>
> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

Fine. Go and do that. Have a ball. I did what you're doing for a
couple of decades. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore, but that's
me.

> I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
> want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
> utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
> I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
> record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
> miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
> I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
> rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
> doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
> 1% of.

Then don't buy a TiVo. I really don't know why you keep hammering away
at this. If you don't want a TiVo, don't buy one. No one's forcing a
TiVo on you, and I imagine they'd rather not sell you a TiVo if you're
not going to subscribe to the service. There are DVR alternatives to
TiVo. Your time would be much better spent seeking them out.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank wrote:
> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
> way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
> presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
> of cause with you?

Part of it, I think, is a reaction to your demand that Tivo deliver up a
device "your way", and being angry when they don't. That doesn't excuse
a harsh reply, but it may prompt one. If you don't like or agree with
TIvo's business model (and we've had this discussion here many times),
then you are free to purchase elsewhere, they're far from a monopoly.

> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
> subscription cost, right?

Actually, that's totally incorrect. If Tivo incorporated the entire
hardware and hardware development cost into the hardware price, it would
be so expensive that few people would purchase it, even though it would
drive the subscription price down. So Tivo subsidizes the hardware cost
through the subscription. This lowers the entry price to owning a Tivo,
which enables more people to purchase one. For those that are more
financially capable, they offer a lifetime subscription. The
interesting thing here is that w/ a lifetime subscription, you avoid
monthly subscription prices altogether. This would seem to fit your
requirement, yet you don't want to do that? Why? Too expensive?
Understand that that's much closer to the *real* cost of the hardware
and software and development costs than the subsidized retail price.

>
> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

Actually if you want an Apples to Apples comparison, then just use
Apple! If you want to buy an Apple computer, you get the Apple
operating system. You've paid for both the hardware and software
development costs whether you want to or not. No, there isn't a
continuing subscription cost, but there isn't for a Tivo either if you
pay lifetime. And it's still cheaper!

Also, the subscription is just for the guide service. Tivo "rents" you
their software, part of which includes the guide info. You don't own
the software. If you want to format the harddrive, you are welcome to
keep your hardware. Just don't expect it to actually do anything. But
if you want to write your own software and OS for it, go ahead.

> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
> just won't be making a purchase right now.

And it won't fit your requirements in the future, unless you are willing
to pay lifetime or you drop your requirements for no subscription. This
is Tivo's business model, and it's unlikely to change. If it does not
agree with you, then shop elsewhere. I'm not telling you that you're
wrong, or stupid, or incorrect. Only that Tivo doesn't offer what you want.

>
> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.
>
> I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
> want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
> utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
> I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
> record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
> miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
> I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
> rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
> doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
> 1% of.

I think you will find that most people who have used Tivo products will
tell you that the sum of its features are much greater than their
individual benefits added together. For most, it takes using a Tivo for
several weeks before the benefits are fully apparent, and it's not
something easily explained.

I personally *hate* running monthly charges. I would much rather pay a
larger upfront fee instead, because I know businesses use monthly fees
to get more money out of people without their realizing it. But even I
think Tivo is worth it. And the lifetime sub is there if you *really*
want to avoid the monthly fee (*lots* of people buy it).

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
>development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
>software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
>subscription cost, right?

No, it doesn't HAVE to be marketed that way, and it often isn't.
You can put all the development cost as well as the hardware cost
into the subscription (see cell phone marketing) or you could put
all the development cost as well as the cost of running the service
into the hardware (some automobiles are being sold with all maintenance
included except "gas and tires", some non-TiVo PVRs have a guide
with no subscription cost, and TiVo has the alternative of lifetime
subscription).

I don't think there is a clear division of "guide software" vs.
"non-guide software" development costs. Nor is there a clear
division of "guide-related incorporated hardware" (IS there any?)
I don't think the auto companies divide out "smoking-related interior
design cost", either, and I've never heard of a car sold without
ashtrays, even though there are plenty of non-smoking families.

>If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

If what you want is a sufficiently small share of the market, there
may be no one willing to market a product exactly like you want,
or maybe not even something remotely close. For example, having
two tuners is more of a high-end feature, and no guide is a low-end
(lack of) feature. You may well not find them in the same product.

On the other hand, a company's marketing plan is not a law. If I
want to buy TiVos to smash roaches, TiVo can't force me to buy a
subscription (clearly pointless for the intended use) unless they
won't sell me the hardware without a contract that includes one
(which is how cell phone companies deal with the issue). But TiVo
doesn't want to force me to sign a contract when I buy a TiVo (and
the retail stores probably wouldn't stock them if they had to enforce
that).


>You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
>Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

But if you want certain applications, or certain hardware which has
only Windows drivers and no drivers for the alternative OSs, you
may be stuck with it.

>Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
>use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
>think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
>wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me.

I do know that time-and-channel recording has a fairly high malfunction
rate (because I used it a lot in the past, as you do now) due to
short-notice screwing around with the schedule by TV stations and/or
networks. Now, even the TiVo guide screws up (unavoidably) when
the notice is too short or nonexistent. And it doesn't protect
against power failures that prevent recording. But using the guide
has cut the malfunction rate way down.

>If buying this
>equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
>just won't be making a purchase right now.
>
>As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
>least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
>to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

The urgent need may be approaching. Do your VCRs have digital
tuners? Can they control another box that does have a digital
tuner? If the answer to both questions is NO, you may soon (at the
analog shutoff in a few years) be reduced to "time with manually
set channel" recording. It's going to be a problem with my TiVo,
also, unless someone can teach it how to control a digital receiver.

>I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
>want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
>utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
>I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
>record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
>miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
>I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
>rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
>doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
>1% of.

To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
don't even have a separate price tag.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <11e69c2do29g5db@corp.supernews.com>, Gordon Burditt
<gordonb.m6uc0@burditt.org> wrote:

> To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
> don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
> don't even have a separate price tag.

They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
serves as a convenient power tap.

Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
seat.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
>>don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
>>don't even have a separate price tag.
>
>
> They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
> to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
> serves as a convenient power tap.
>
> Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
> seat.

Well, it's only my Fiancee and I, but we've found a use for the back
seat a couple of times. ;-)

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <dbvsu8$1392$3@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>, Randy S.
<rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> >>To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
> >>don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
> >>don't even have a separate price tag.
> >
> >
> > They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
> > to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
> > serves as a convenient power tap.
> >
> > Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
> > seat.
>
> Well, it's only my Fiancee and I, but we've found a use for the back
> seat a couple of times. ;-)


Hey, we were young once. Just not recently!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-23, Randy S. <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> Frank wrote:
>
>> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
> Also, the subscription is just for the guide service. Tivo "rents" you
> their software, part of which includes the guide info. You don't own
> the software. If you want to format the harddrive, you are welcome to
> keep your hardware. Just don't expect it to actually do anything. But
> if you want to write your own software and OS for it, go ahead.

One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
software at all, you need to pay for a subscription. This even involves
just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
and for that, you have to pay.

--
This is my .sig

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
> only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
> be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
> to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
> you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
> software at all, you need to pay for a subscription. This even involves
> just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
> still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
> to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
> not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
> to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
> and for that, you have to pay.
>

Very true. Unfortunately, I think the limited availability of Tivo
Basic (on DVD recorder integrated boxes) adds confusion to that concept.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would

On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.

>be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
>to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
>you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
>software at all, you need to pay for a subscription.

Then why was I able to buy the box without signing a contract for
a subscription? If TiVo wants to sell it that way, it has to *SELL
IT THAT WAY*. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on TiVo's part.

Does the software license for a Series 2 actually SAY I have to
have a subscription to use it?

>This even involves
>just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
>still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
>to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
>not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
>to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
>and for that, you have to pay.

It's TiVo's fault the license does not say you have to have a
subscription to use it, and that they'll sell you a TiVo without
having you sign a contract for a subscription. A marketing plan
is not a law or a contract.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-24, Gordon Burditt <gordonb.qx2a6@burditt.org> wrote:
>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>
> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.

*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.

>>be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
>>to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
>>you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
>>software at all, you need to pay for a subscription.
>
> Then why was I able to buy the box without signing a contract for
> a subscription?

Um, because you don't need a subscription to own the hardware.

> If TiVo wants to sell it that way, it has to *SELL
> IT THAT WAY*. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on TiVo's part.

Um, they do sell it that way. If someone is buying the TiVo for the
hardware, I don't think they're making a wise buying decision since you
can get most of the parts yourself for cheaper. But, you can certainly
buy just the hardware if that's what you want.

> Does the software license for a Series 2 actually SAY I have to
> have a subscription to use it?

For the software licenses that you have to pay for, yes. For the software
licenses you don't have to pay for, no (like the S1 SATiVos or TiVo Basic
boxes).

>>This even involves
>>just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
>>still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
>>to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
>>not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
>>to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
>>and for that, you have to pay.
>
> It's TiVo's fault the license does not say you have to have a
> subscription to use it, and that they'll sell you a TiVo without
> having you sign a contract for a subscription. A marketing plan
> is not a law or a contract.

I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.

Just because you buy the box does NOT give you a legal right to access
TiVo's IP in terms of the software on the box. Likewise, you are under NO
obligation to pay for the software if you aren't going to use.

What part of this is in question?

--
This is my .sig

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>>
>> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.
>
>*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
>of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
>percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
>only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.

Tivo's definition of the TiVo Service on their own website (see
TiVo Service Agreement on http/www.tivo.com/ ) seems to limit it
to guide information, season pass, wishlist, smart recording
(adjusting to schedule changes), suggestions, and parental controls.

Quote:

3. The TiVo Service. The TiVo service consists of program guide
information and the following features: (a) Season Pass - automatically
finds and records every episode of a series all season long; (b)
WishList - finds and records programs that feature your favorite
actor, director, team or even topic; (c) Smart Recording - automatically
detects program line-up changes for your cable/ satellite provider
and adjusts recording times so you don't have to worry about the
details; (d) TiVo Suggestions - TiVo can be programmed to suggest
and auto-record programs that may match your interests; and (e)
Parental Controls-lock channels or set ratings limits based on
content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The
"TiVo service" means these features and any additional features and
functionality of the TiVo DVR that TiVo may, at its discretion and
from time to time, offer.

End quote.

Later sections talk about the networked functions and TiVoToGo.

This does not include using such features as watching TV, manually
changing channels, pausing live TV, and time-and-channel recording
as part of the TiVo service.

Incidentally, can a Series 2 pause live TV, manually change channels,
or let you view TV without a subscription?

>I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
>use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
>service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.

No, it says if you use the *SERVICE* you agree that you are a user of the
TiVo service and are bound by the terms of that agreement.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-24, Gordon Burditt <gordonb.vo5ne@burditt.org> wrote:
>>>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>>>
>>> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.
>>
>>*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
>>of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
>>percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
>>only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.
>
> Tivo's definition of the TiVo Service on their own website (see
> TiVo Service Agreement on http/www.tivo.com/ ) seems to limit it
> to guide information, season pass, wishlist, smart recording
> (adjusting to schedule changes), suggestions, and parental controls.

You don't believe recording like a VCR falls under "functionality of the
TiVo DVR that TiVo...offer(s)"? I believe it would (obviously IANAL).

> Incidentally, can a Series 2 pause live TV, manually change channels,
> or let you view TV without a subscription?

No.

>>I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
>>use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
>>service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.
>
> No, it says if you use the *SERVICE* you agree that you are a user of the
> TiVo service and are bound by the terms of that agreement.

Using their software IS using their service. The software isn't yours,
it's TiVos and they are providing it for your use as a service.

--
This is my .sig

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

gordonb.vo5ne@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:11e7ujuaf3ap322
@corp.supernews.com:

> content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The

Which part of 'part of' confused you? This may help:

http/dictionary.reference.com/search?q=part

Your claim that TiVo is 'limiting' the definition is clearly false, your own
quote destroys your own words.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply?

There's nothing nasty about it, you want something the Tivo doesn't offer.
That you have other granidiose ideas about what is or isn't realistic
doesn't mean anyone in their right mind would try to sustain a business that
way.

The Tivo won't do what you want, question answered.

 

[frank]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>
>> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
>> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
>> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
>> subscription cost, right?
>>
>> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
>They sell you their razor at a loss because they want to keep selling
>you their blades at a profit. This is not a complicated concept.

No, it's not, but not a valid comparison. Tivo hardware can be
purchased by several different manufacturers.

If I buy a razor I know I need blades. The razor is useless without
them. However, there are 3rd party blades available that are
compatible available at a discount if you so choose. So there are
"alternatives."

I want an "alternative" to purchasing the sub service.

>
>You're insisting that a company that makes a machine you clearly don't
>want follow an amateurish business model of your own devising simply
>because you think things should be that way. The important thing to
>most TiVo users is not the machine, but the service. I think it's well
>worth the price. You don't. You should seek out and buy a machine
>that will do what you want it to do the way you want to do it, or just
>keep on using your VCRs.

What is the "amateurish business model" I devised? I am simply a
consumer (a stubborn one) who doesn't want to play nice like these
companies want me to. F 'em.

Your last sentence sums up the situation perfectly I must say. I am
going to be doing just that. I will be posting an ending to this saga
by week's end and hopefully it will help others in my situation who
have stumbled across this newsgroup.

>
>> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
>> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.
>
>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.

So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
are claiming.

>
>> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
>> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
>> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
>> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
>> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
>> just won't be making a purchase right now.
>>
>> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
>> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
>> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.
>
>Fine. Go and do that. Have a ball. I did what you're doing for a
>couple of decades. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore, but that's
>me.

I agree, I am tired of doing it. Video tapes are large and
cumbersome, and the picture quality is terrible. I want to migrate to
DVD, but on MY terms.



Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-25, Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> No, it's not, but not a valid comparison. Tivo hardware can be
> purchased by several different manufacturers.
>
> If I buy a razor I know I need blades. The razor is useless without
> them. However, there are 3rd party blades available that are
> compatible available at a discount if you so choose. So there are
> "alternatives."
>
> I want an "alternative" to purchasing the sub service.

If you demand to buy TiVo hardware, then the only alternative to
purchasing a sub service is to write your own software to control the
hardware.

The simpler solution would be to get a non-TiVo DVR that does what you
want.

Or, get a TiVo that has basic service included.


--
This is my .sig

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <hh09e1dd63fq5aieaed8bb6higeft6fnut@4ax.com>, Frank wrote:
>>
>>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.
>
> So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
> loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
> are claiming.
> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

Last quarterly financial statement of TiVo:
http/a423.g.akamai.net/7/423/1788/3509b471119b56/www.tivo.com/pdfs/reports/10q_20050609.pdf


Hardware revenues 10,526,000
Cost of hardware revenues 5,6422,000

That's not including the $3,638,000 in rebates, or the $8,866,000 in
costs to service the accounts (mostly subscription info), or the
$10,900,000 in research and development, or the general overhead, or the ...

Chris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <slrnde9q0c.c7g.chrisb@balder.sabir.com>, Chris Buckley wrote:
> In article <hh09e1dd63fq5aieaed8bb6higeft6fnut@4ax.com>, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>>>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.
>>
>> So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
>> loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
>> are claiming.
>> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
>
> Last quarterly financial statement of TiVo:
> http/a423.g.akamai.net/7/423/1788/3509b471119b56/www.tivo.com/pdfs/reports/10q_20050609.pdf
>
>
> Hardware revenues 10,526,000
> Cost of hardware revenues 5,6422,000
>
> That's not including the $3,638,000 in rebates, or the $8,866,000 in
> costs to service the accounts (mostly subscription info), or the
> $10,900,000 in research and development, or the general overhead, or the ...


Whoops, in copying the figures I mistyped and left out a very important '1':
It's
Hardware revenues 10,526,000
Cost of hardware revenues 15,642,000

Sorry about that!
Chris