recording drums on two tracks

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> Nat, are you looking for ways to record the entire kit with 2 mics,
> or, are you trying to improve the stereo submix of drums that you're
> forced to do because you only have 8 tracks? I'm guessing it's the
> latter of the 2. One thing someone else touched on is getting a sense
> of how the drums sit with other instrumentation, even if just scratch
> tracks, in the mix. I mic drums with 3 mics and submix to a mono
> track, and I have found out the hard way that setting levels to what
> sounds like a 'real" kit when bouncing will leave your track kick shy
> and snare shy at mixdown. So I usually make the kick and snare a
> *little* louder in the bounce, to where it almost seems too loud, so
> that they don't disappear after I add 6 guitars, tambourine, handclaps
> and vocals!

Yeah, it's the latter. I understand that a lot of songs are recorded
starting with the drums, but I -- for better and worse -- have been
recording drums lately after I have other tracks down... I think my
drummer prefers it, and it has worked out so far. He's got good,
strict, click-track timing, so there's not too many timing problems
for me doing it that way. So, as of late, I actually have mixed most
of my drums in the context of the song itself. In the past, I've had
problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6236419.0408191827.7c15338@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:

> I -- for better and worse -- have been
> recording drums lately after I have other tracks down... I think my
> drummer prefers it, and it has worked out so far. He's got good,
> strict, click-track timing, so there's not too many timing problems
> for me doing it that way.

How do you get good, strict click-track timing without a drummer? Or
are your other tracks machine-generated? Most real musicians are much
more comfortable playing to a drummer than to a click track, even if
it's a drum machine.

> In the past, I've had
> problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
> if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
> hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.

That's it. But it may not be that the snare is too quiet, it could be
that something else is too loud, masking the snare. By raising the
level of the snare, you then have a "level spike" which, unless you
limit it, will reduce the maximum apparent loudness that you can
achieve. Maximum loudness may not be your goal, but it's the goal of
many.


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[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 19 Aug 2004 19:27:00 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

> So, as of late, I actually have mixed most
>of my drums in the context of the song itself. In the past, I've had
>problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
>if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
>hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.

Careful! That's thinking like a musician. They'll kick you out of
the Recording Engineers' Guild

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> How do you get good, strict click-track timing without a drummer? Or
> are your other tracks machine-generated? Most real musicians are much
> more comfortable playing to a drummer than to a click track, even if
> it's a drum machine.

I play most of the parts myself, and I don't mind playing to a drum
machine. Then my drummer comes in afterwards and lays drums to what
I've done with a click going. Thus far, it's worked.

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> but you could do a decent job with two mics. just make sure they are
> two good mics! set the first mic about 6 feet over the drummers head
> and about 8 feet in front of him. have him play loud. put the second
> mic on the kick drum.

Sadly, I'm always forced to tune out when people say "good mics." I
gotta do everything with my 57s and 58s. It's kinda fun, pretty
impossible. On many instruments and vocs I mic model, which is
cheating and probably pretty transparent, but it makes me feel like a
regular princess, changing from fancy mic to fancy mic at will.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Nat wrote:

> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting.

Use fewer mics.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen




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[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com>, Nat
<ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
> at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
> for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
> ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
> anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
> my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
> again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
> the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of us tracking drums with ever
more mics. My record was 22 on a metal record; top and bottom mics on
the toms (polarity flipped) with shell triggers keying gates etc.
Looking back it all seems absurd. My favorite drum recordings continue
to be a 2-3 mics in a nice room with high ceilings and of course a
great player. I get the impression you are recording in a small room.
Here is where close and multiple micing gets really ugly on anything
heavier than some light brush work. My personal feeling about this kind
of enviornment is to embrace it for what it is. A single radioshack PZM
on the wall (any wall for that matter) will give you a fat and honest
sound. It will sound distinct, organic and no one will confuse it with
a machine. Try it and let your drummer hear it. He may want to adjust
his dynamics but you may both be surprised. Then again it all depends
on the song along with countless other variables. Just keep trying and
dont rule anything out! There are no rules. Some of those mega-mic
setups in the 90s actually worked on occasion;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Sonicanuck wrote:

> Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of us tracking drums with ever
> more mics. My record was 22 on a metal record; top and bottom mics on
> the toms (polarity flipped) with shell triggers keying gates etc.
> Looking back it all seems absurd. My favorite drum recordings continue
> to be a 2-3 mics in a nice room with high ceilings and of course a
> great player. I get the impression you are recording in a small room.
> Here is where close and multiple micing gets really ugly on anything
> heavier than some light brush work. My personal feeling about this kind
> of enviornment is to embrace it for what it is. A single radioshack PZM
> on the wall (any wall for that matter) will give you a fat and honest
> sound. It will sound distinct, organic and no one will confuse it with
> a machine. Try it and let your drummer hear it. He may want to adjust
> his dynamics but you may both be surprised. Then again it all depends
> on the song along with countless other variables. Just keep trying and
> dont rule anything out! There are no rules. Some of those mega-mic
> setups in the 90s actually worked on occasion;-)

I'm with you there. One of the cleanest drum recordings I've ever
worked with was done in an 8x12 room with a 10' ceiling, assorted cheap
sound deadening (read: cardboard egg cartons on parts of the walls),
with a D112 on the kick, SM-58 on the snare, and a pair of RS PZMs, each
attached to a 2x2' piece of plywood and those arranged in a V shape,
hung about 4' above the drums, and panned hard left and right.

The balance of the toms and overheads was near-perfect and the stereo
image on cymbal washes and tom rolls was amazing. The 58 was blended in
just enough to add some 'snap' and body to the snare.

I've recently done an album with the same drummer (much newer and
better-maintained kit, fortunately) in which we used 11 mics on the kit
- double kicks, snare, one each for three rack toms and a floor tom, one
each for hat and ride, and an overhead pair. I can't say that the drums
turned out significantly better... sure there's more control, but
sometimes the overabundance of sources just leads to cancellation and
other problems too.


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