recording drums on two tracks

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ha ha. Yeah, it can be tough. What you want to try to do is to mix the drums
correctly *before* you actually start recording them. I'm sorry, but what
you're doing just sounds stupid. There are actually a couple of other
newsgroups that are tailor-made for newbies and/or people that just seem to
grasp the basics. Check out harmony central, and you'll be able to find a
newsgroup more suited to your limited needs. We don't really deal with
questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope this
helps. And good luck!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What you may want to try to achieve is a way of mixing the drums with some
reference of the other instruments and vocal. This will not lock you into
having to cater to a mediocre drum mix. I couldn't be sure what kind of
equipment you have or what level you are at, but you should most certainly
get yourself at least an inexpensive multitrack DAW, which will complement
your analog recorder or maybe even render it obsolete! Some of the powerful
Software packages can be a little intimidating if you're new to it all but
it's the ticket to pro sounding mixes if you're eager to spend the time.

Neil R

"Youngsexcandy" <youngsexcandy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040816010108.24921.00001082@mb-m20.aol.com...
> Ha ha. Yeah, it can be tough. What you want to try to do is to mix the
drums
> correctly *before* you actually start recording them. I'm sorry, but what
> you're doing just sounds stupid. There are actually a couple of other
> newsgroups that are tailor-made for newbies and/or people that just seem
to
> grasp the basics. Check out harmony central, and you'll be able to find a
> newsgroup more suited to your limited needs. We don't really deal with
> questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
this
> helps. And good luck!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:

> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness.

Then what do you call recording the whole band on two, or even one
track? They did that for a long time, and I'll bet you've even heard
some of those recordings and liked the sound.

> Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> machines that let you just record on two tracks.

I'll admit that when you're trying to record multitrack, being able to
record only two tracks at once is a hard way to go, but that isn't
really multitrack recording, it's one- or two-track recording with a
lot of overdubbing and mixing later.

> Maybe if I was good
> at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief.

That's the ticket!


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

>Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
>is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
>machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
>at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
>for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
>ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
>anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
>my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
>again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
>the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.


Is it the recording, or is it the drummer?

Is he "laying down tracks" in isolation, or playing as part of a
musical performance? Perhaps he just isn't leaving room for other
instruments.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>We don't really deal with
>questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here.
Hope this
>helps. And good luck!

I dunno if even have anything to say to this ^ I thought that was the
point of the group. At any rate I think we do deal with questions like
this.... often.

I think a lot can be done with 2 tracks on drums. Hell I've had great
success with one mic. Don't think you're limited by you mic selection
or your hardware. Much can be done with so little. I remember reading
an interview with Phill Ramone i believe, he said something to the
effect "All you need is one SM57 and creativity" Just be creative.
Also think about the song and what it needs for the recording. All to
often I would get caught up with getting "THE" tone for the drums or
guitar and it would sound great by itself but didn't fit the song. As
a friend put it "It sounds great.... And if i was going to buy a CD
that was just drums that sounded awesome i think this would be it. But
it's just too good sounding for my songs." We ended up using on 57
pointed into the kit and that ended up fitting the song better. No I
find the sound of a couple mic's and a good drummer in the right
location to be far more pleasing.


cheers
garrett


mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092657979k@trad>...
> In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> > is madness.
>
> Then what do you call recording the whole band on two, or even one
> track? They did that for a long time, and I'll bet you've even heard
> some of those recordings and liked the sound.
>
> > Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> > machines that let you just record on two tracks.
>
> I'll admit that when you're trying to record multitrack, being able to
> record only two tracks at once is a hard way to go, but that isn't
> really multitrack recording, it's one- or two-track recording with a
> lot of overdubbing and mixing later.
>
> > Maybe if I was good
> > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief.
>
> That's the ticket!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Nat <ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
>is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
>machines that let you just record on two tracks.

Hell, I use two tracks for the whole orchestra half the time. I don't
get the need for ukubillion drum submixes. Either the drums sound good
and are appropriate for the mix or they aren't.

>Maybe if I was good
>at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
>for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
>ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
>anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
>my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
>again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
>the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

To some extent you can deal with that sort of thing with EQ, but my
suggestion is to keep trying, and also to try and listen to some
commercial recording and JUST listen to the drums and how the drums
fall into the mix. Get practice at isolating the different tracks
in your head.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

With a decent drummer and a reasonable room, you can get a great drum
sound with one overhead and a kick. I was messing around with this
just the other day... I had four mics set up, but when I played it
back with just the OH and the kick alone, it sounded great. The thing
is that the drummer has to be able to balance the kit with how he
plays it.

Al

On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

>Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
>is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
>machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
>at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
>for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
>ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
>anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
>my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
>again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
>the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Youngsexcandy" <youngsexcandy@aol.com> wrote in message
> We don't really deal with
> questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
this
> helps. And good luck!

I stop reading RAP for a week and now we have a new king? Why are you the
spokesman and why do you think that beginning home recordists have no place
here? Because of the low traffic flow in alt.audio.4-track I eventually
unsubscribed. I like having many diverse people all with different ideas
such as here in RAP. It's a much larger knowledge base.

Are you telling me that there will be no more replies to the "What's the
best vocal mic?" threads?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Nat" <ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com...
> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness.

Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

The cleverest method I ever ran into for an 8 track recording of a rock band
was overhead, rack toms and kick on one track and snare and floor tom mikes
on another. This lets you use a combination of eq. and balance between the
two tracks to achieve a great mono drum sound.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http/www.hyperback.com

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

I'll tell you what, google groups is a luxury. Wow. I really
appreciate all the advice -- thanks so much for the replies. My
drummer and I are going into a marathon session this weekend and I
hope to incorporate a lot of your suggestions.

This album is only my second, and it's my first time tackling drums,
but then even imperfectly recorded acoustic drums knock the socks of
that drum machine I used last time.

Lucky for me, I have a technically excellent drummer playing with me,
and he's nice enough not to have killed me yet for all my retries. So
I have some faith...

Thanks again.

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

I'll tell you what, google groups is a luxury. Wow. I really
appreciate all the advice -- thanks so much for the replies. My
drummer and I are going into a marathon session this weekend and I
hope to incorporate a lot of your suggestions.

This album is only my second, and it's my first time tackling drums,
but then even imperfectly recorded acoustic drums knock the socks of
that drum machine I used last time.

Lucky for me, I have a technically excellent drummer playing with me,
and he's nice enough not to have killed me yet for all my retries. So
I have some faith...

Thanks again.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

.. We don't really deal with
> questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
this
> helps. And good luck!

Whatever....

Anyway, it sounds like maybe your drummer needs to get it in his head that
HE is mixing the drums.

Tell him to stop beating the piss out of "anything made of metal", and tell
him to deliberately and consitently whack "anything with a skin on".

IOW - lighten up on the hats and cymbals, and hit the drums themselves real
nice and firm so they 'speak' properly.

Get the blend in the room that you are after.

I got a great drum sound in the weekend just gone with 4 mics :

Coles 4038 as a single overhead, above the snare, about 6' higher than the
snare

A pair of Oktavas' on either side of the drummers head, like a pair of ears

AKG D112 in the kick.


Most of the sound was the kick and the Oktavas, with some squeezed overhead
for ambience.

Basically it sounded good because the drummer plays real well, and his kit
sounds really nice.

Also check out Fletchers site www.mercenary.com for some great drum
recording tips.


Generally, if it sounds good in the room you are off to a good start.

Tuning them nicely helps too - google for "Drum Tuning" and see what you
learn.


Good luck!

Geoff



---
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
just for some space
then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
and mix down to 2 tracks
almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.

"playonATcomcast.net" <playon@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:rj72i0haf1mhoif7d3ei9f357gf5k8fce5@4ax.com...
> With a decent drummer and a reasonable room, you can get a great drum
> sound with one overhead and a kick. I was messing around with this
> just the other day... I had four mics set up, but when I played it
> back with just the OH and the kick alone, it sounded great. The thing
> is that the drummer has to be able to balance the kit with how he
> plays it.
>
> Al
>
> On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:
>
> >Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> >is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> >machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
> >at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
> >for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
> >ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
> >anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
> >my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
> >again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
> >the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.
>

 

[David]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
<Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
> just for some space
> then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
> and mix down to 2 tracks
> almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.


Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
mix, depending obviously on what you get.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Nat wrote:
> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
> at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
> for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
> ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
> anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
> my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
> again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
> the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

I've had success with an A-B pair of omni's in front of the drum kit,
placed at the height of the top of kick drum. It needs a good, large
room though.

Stig Erik Tangen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
> In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
> <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
> > just for some space
> > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
> > and mix down to 2 tracks
> > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
>
>
> Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
> may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
> making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
> mix, depending obviously on what you get.


You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
from there.

Doug

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I never tried that. I like that idea and I'm looking forward to testing it out.


"Doug Schultz" <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<SdKUc.141902$gE.9298@pd7tw3no>...
> "david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
> news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
> > In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
> > <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
> > > just for some space
> > > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
> > > and mix down to 2 tracks
> > > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
> >
> >
> > Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
> > may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
> > making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
> > mix, depending obviously on what you get.
>
>
> You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
> in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
> and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
> from there.
>
> Doug

 

[nat]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I never tried that. I like that idea and I'm looking forward to testing it out.


"Doug Schultz" <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<SdKUc.141902$gE.9298@pd7tw3no>...
> "david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
> news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
> > In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
> > <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
> > > just for some space
> > > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
> > > and mix down to 2 tracks
> > > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
> >
> >
> > Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
> > may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
> > making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
> > mix, depending obviously on what you get.
>
>
> You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
> in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
> and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
> from there.
>
> Doug

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote in message news:<e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com>...
> Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
> is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
> machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
> at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
> for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
> ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
> anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
> my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
> again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
> the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

Nat, are you looking for ways to record the entire kit with 2 mics,
or, are you trying to improve the stereo submix of drums that you're
forced to do because you only have 8 tracks? I'm guessing it's the
latter of the 2. One thing someone else touched on is getting a sense
of how the drums sit with other instrumentation, even if just scratch
tracks, in the mix. I mic drums with 3 mics and submix to a mono
track, and I have found out the hard way that setting levels to what
sounds like a 'real" kit when bouncing will leave your track kick shy
and snare shy at mixdown. So I usually make the kick and snare a
*little* louder in the bounce, to where it almost seems too loud, so
that they don't disappear after I add 6 guitars, tambourine, handclaps
and vocals!