Rings of Power episode 7 just ruined the show for me — here's why

Oct 9, 2022
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I feel like this post is definitely written too soon. YOU have no idea how celeborn is gonna reveal himself, for all we know she probably only thinks hes dead but hes probably around. You havent listed any actual examples of the timeline not being accurate. Everything will be revealed in time and to say youre giving up on a series trying to adapt the simarillion only 7 episodes in tells me you arent a true middle earth fan. Just a contrarian trying to garner views with a hitpiece to an unfinished show lol
 
Oct 9, 2022
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10
I think they are clearly telegraphing it that Celeborn will come back. Now whether or not this is done so she can have a short romantic episode only to have to give it up once he returns, have her find out to save him, or because they have a plan to have some triumphant return to save her or other people is all speculation. But the idea that he is out of the show is just flat out wrong. If you read the trivia stuff on Amazon Prime's X-ray section they pretty much spell it out there that: it's a 'he's gone... or is he...?"
 
Oct 9, 2022
3
1
15
I feel like this post is definitely written too soon. YOU have no idea how celeborn is gonna reveal himself, for all we know she probably only thinks hes dead but hes probably around. You havent listed any actual examples of the timeline not being accurate. Everything will be revealed in time and to say youre giving up on a series trying to adapt the simarillion only 7 episodes in tells me you arent a true middle earth fan. Just a contrarian trying to garner views with a hitpiece to an unfinished show lol
So she'll spend a thousand years looking for Sauron, whom everyone believes is dead, but spends no time verifying the death of her own husband?? When you have to make excuses for the show you're watching, the writing on that show obviously isn't very good. Everything will be revealed in time?? A- you don't know that, B- how much time?? How many episodes do we have to sit through waiting?? Jackson told 3 books worth of epic stories in fewer hours. With more time invested we've gotten virtually nothing from this show. Almost a full season and no one has any idea what's going on yet. It's almost as if they're intentionally dragging things out because they know they don't have the ability to fill 5 seasons with compelling content...
 
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ginandbacon

Commendable
Apr 29, 2022
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1,565
While you may not be enjoying the show. I am. The fact that you flat out say that this shows isn't for ANYONE is extremely close minded as different people enjoy different things but according to your article nobody, and I mean nobody should watch it period.

What we do not need to do, is watch it. If you are a Tolkien fan, this story is not for you and we should have guessed as much once we figured out what Amazon actually has the rights to.

Your saying nobody that isa Tolkien fan could ever possibly like this show. Pretty broad generalization.

If you’re someone who just wants to watch a good TV show, you do not have to accept the poor pacing. It's truly shocking that a show that has condensed millennia into hours feels so slow at times

If your not up to date with every book, short story then you shouldn't watch it either because of slow pacing? Did you even watch Fellowship of the Rings? It's boring yet it's all setup. Neither of the other 2 movies would have been as good or made as much sense without the 1st one. Do you know a single person who says The Fellowship of the Rings is the best out of the 3? I highly doubt it because it's simply not. Also, let's not forget what a hot mess The Hobbit was. Stretching one book into 3 movies was a bad idea and the fact that Peter Jackson didn't even really have a plan made it worse. With that said the original director backed out so it did get tossed to Jackson but I wish del Toro did direct it. He's a master at the details and special effects but Jackson didn't want to use his script and pretty much winged the entire 3 movies.
 
Oct 9, 2022
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How about you keep your biased opinion to yourself, and let us enjoy the show. No need to force us to not like it when you don't like it.
There's also no need to keep watching it if you don't like it. Don't like it? Cool, stop watching it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 9, 2022
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10
How about you keep your biased opinion to yourself, and let us enjoy the show. No need to force us to not like it when you don't like it.
There's also no need to keep watching it if you don't like it. Don't like it? Cool, stop watching it.
While you may not be enjoying the show. I am. The fact that you flat out say that this shows isn't for ANYONE is extremely close minded as different people enjoy different things but according to your article nobody, and I mean nobody should watch it period.

What we do not need to do, is watch it. If you are a Tolkien fan, this story is not for you and we should have guessed as much once we figured out what Amazon actually has the rights to.

Your saying nobody that is a Tolkien fan could ever possibly like this show. Pretty broad generalization.

If you’re someone who just wants to watch a good TV show, you do not have to accept the poor pacing. It's truly shocking that a show that has condensed millennia into hours feels so slow at times

If your not up to date with every book, short story then you shouldn't watch it either because of slow pacing? Did you even watch Fellowship of the Rings? It's boring yet it's all setup. Neither of the other 2 movies would have been as good or made as much sense without the 1st one. Do you know a single person who says The Fellowship of the Rings is the best out of the 3? I highly doubt it because it's simply not. Also, let's not forget what a hot mess The Hobbit was. Stretching one book into 3 movies was a bad idea and the fact that Peter Jackson didn't even really have a plan made it worse. With that said the original director backed out so it did get tossed to Jackson but I wish del Toro did direct it. He's a master at the details and special effects but Jackson didn't want to use his script and pretty much winged the entire 3 movies.

First result I found on Google Screen Rant ranking LOTR. FORT is top. And it’s my favorite. FOTR may not be the most entertaining but it’s the best executed. ROP is neither entertaining nor well executed.
 
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Oct 9, 2022
2
0
10
I feel like this post is definitely written too soon. YOU have no idea how celeborn is gonna reveal himself, for all we know she probably only thinks hes dead but hes probably around. You havent listed any actual examples of the timeline not being accurate. Everything will be revealed in time and to say youre giving up on a series trying to adapt the simarillion only 7 episodes in tells me you arent a true middle earth fan. Just a contrarian trying to garner views with a hitpiece to an unfinished show lol

He LITERALLY referenced things DIRECTLY from Tolkien and you're saying he hasn't provided anything to back up his point lol
 
Oct 9, 2022
1
1
10
I feel like this post is definitely written too soon. YOU have no idea how celeborn is gonna reveal himself, for all we know she probably only thinks hes dead but hes probably around. You havent listed any actual examples of the timeline not being accurate. Everything will be revealed in time and to say youre giving up on a series trying to adapt the simarillion only 7 episodes in tells me you arent a true middle earth fan. Just a contrarian trying to garner views with a hitpiece to an unfinished show lol
This show is NOT for Tolkien fans this author is right about that. There are so many examples of deviations from lore and timeline plus stuff that makes no sense in the established universe. You want examples.
Galadriel was never a military commander. The numenorians at this point in the story already has a HUGE commercial and military presence in Middle Earth. They the numenorians fought and "captured" Sauron (no elf was involved) Sauron at this point in the timeline ( using the line of the Numenor kings to date) knew about Numenor and feared its power. Sauron has a massive army at this point. Mount doom was already a volcano at this point, as was Mordor. There was never region called the Southlands. Galadriel was never banished to anywhere she was a Queen and a powerful ruler at this point and refused to go Valanor. The jumping into the sea makes no sense as she could have left Valanor at anytime on a ship it was not a prison. Mithril is just silver Steel very light very strong, it did not come from a Balrog fight as balgogs are fire based creatures this plot line is dumb. I could go on and on about the stupid lazy deviations from lore. I wish they had just made a show with 100% original characters but in established places.
However if you like it then that's cool but anyone that like me hates deviations from lore in any film or show will find the sheer disrespect too distracting. I HATED the Hobbit films they were worse than the RoP. I did not like what Jackson did to the lore in LoTR either
 
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Oct 9, 2022
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I think they are clearly telegraphing it that Celeborn will come back. Now whether or not this is done so she can have a short romantic episode only to have to give it up once he returns, have her find out to save him, or because they have a plan to have some triumphant return to save her or other people is all speculation. But the idea that he is out of the show is just flat out wrong. If you read the trivia stuff on Amazon Prime's X-ray section they pretty much spell it out there that: it's a 'he's gone... or is he...?"
The thing is they're TOTALLY BREAKING Tolkien Canon to make this " story" THAT'S the problem.

Elves are IMMORTAL and even they " die "they basically get reborn into new bodies in Valinor (it's like their heaven) and elves are HYPER MONOGAMOUS and mate for life... In Tolkien elves can literally DIE OF HEARTBREAK and become a eternally sad spirit that doesn't have the will to be reborn.

SOOOOOO that means if Galadriel DOESN'T know where her husband is but DOES KNOW her brother is "dead" she can check in Valinor to see if he's there... If Celeborn ISN'T there that means he's still out there somewhere and ya know MIGHT NEED HELP...

But INSTEAD of looking for the LOVE OF HER LIFE she spends HUNDREDS OF YEARS trying to get vengeance for her brother...

This show SUCKS if you are a Tolkien fan cause it's fan fiction made for normies 😓
 

zilexa0

Commendable
Oct 24, 2021
3
2
1,515
The main issue with this show is people like Malcolm McMillan, the writer of this article, writing negative clickbait articles like this one that simply have no merit. The very first paragraph talks about an "existing story". That's already a false assumption as there is no such thing. Silmarillon does not even describe Celeborn in any details that could be used for TV, so the studio can fill that in any way they want.
Hell, Silmarillon doesn't describe a lot of things, it's not a story.
I love the show because the content it is based on leaves soo much open to be filled in to actually create the story. And I haven't actually seen any deviation from the material it is based on.
But the internet doesn't work like that and Tom's can make more money going with the negativity around this show, the negativity has gone viral unfortunately.
 
Oct 10, 2022
1
1
15
The main issue with this show is people like Malcolm McMillan, the writer of this article, writing negative clickbait articles like this one that simply have no merit. The very first paragraph talks about an "existing story". That's already a false assumption as there is no such thing. Silmarillon does not even describe Celeborn in any details that could be used for TV, so the studio can fill that in any way they want.

Hell, Silmarillon doesn't describe a lot of things, it's not a story.
I love the show because the content it is based on leaves soo much open to be filled in to actually create the story. And I haven't actually seen any deviation from the material it is based on.

But the internet doesn't work like that and Tom's can make more money going with the negativity around this show, the negativity has gone viral unfortunately.

Yeah I was surprised Tom's guide had a review, enough to click. Holy cow does this failure at critique show a clear lack of respect for Tolkien and a lack of knowledge of his work. The show is not "throwing out" Tolkein Canon. Let's pretend this toxicity is a good faith critique.

The master linguist was inspired by the shifts in histories, myths and language - which was his dayjob. To a degree that if you don't know Thorongil's identity you miss out completely on a puzzle in the Appendices for ROTK; lovely Easter Eggs abound. To illustrate, if you know Varda is Elbereth, FOTR has deeper meaning - intentionally! Primary documents have these kinds of mysteries, and he was well aware that translators massage meaning to serve the story.

Which means, The Red Book of West March, is intentionally, not entirely accurate - it's a recollection. The Hobbit's revision was a plot point, and these are the in-canon justifications!

IRL, though, there's another aspect that fans of the lore know - the only definitive works are the Hobbit and the LOTR! There's a reason people interested in the deep lore are encouraged to start with unfinished tales - everything published after his death was in the drafting stages. Christopher Tolkein did his best by his father's revisions. Professor Tolkein's letters, drafts, and notes are an indication of his thought process. He admits he doesn't know everything about the blue wizards in 211, but then later he notes that their names are Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo. There is much more than has been released by the Tolkein estate as published works.

As we famously know with Galadrial and Celeborn, Tolkein changed his mind! He was still revising and drafting before he died. Things such as as when the Wizards Arrive being either 3A 1000 in Unfinished Tales, or now 2A 1600 in People's of Middle Earth, indicate how fluid the canon is. Tolkein's work is not ex cathedra. It's incomplete, there are gaps and unanswered mysteries. Like the primary documents it emulates, the source material contains conjecture, partial truths, and what we have was meant to be in service to the epic story that is LOTR.

This brings me to canon, which is not being destroyed, and continuity. Let move from the Author to the Showrunners maligned here.

Reread that Hollywood Reporter article again. Amazon underbid Netflix, and the Tolkein Estate went with their pitch. Why? Amazon promised not an adaptation, but a relationship. That relationship is why even though they are not explicitly adapting the Simarillion canon - it's still keeping in continuity with it.

The holders of those rights is still the Tolkein Estate and they will determine if Amazon breaks their deal. According to Tom Shippey, The estate refused to let them set the show at any other point than the second Age, and insisted the main shape of the plot is not altered. Which begs the question... How much of this is the Showrunners?

For all we know, there is a half finished epic poem written in Quenya and Common. In it, Glofindel and Durin's Bane fight on top of Caradhras, as a possible, but eventually abandoned, origin for Mithril. The Showrunners received access we can only imagine, and that's the kind of cool thing you find in archives. I trust the Tolkein Estate to weild their relationship, as they did with New Line and Warner Bros.

Though it's not an adaptation of the Akallabeth, that doesn't mean they can't show the fall of Numenor. There is absolutely no reason the estate wouldn't let an event that happens in the second Age be present in the show. Of course, we're going to see the professor's Atlantis analog sink, what's interesting is how it happens!

Here's where this review sent me on this path though - the sheer lack of depth perception on Galadriel's character. She is not 7,188 years old yet! Not could she be a powerful elven ruler commanding a ring of power? Unforged, the rings are. Lórien is ruled by Amdír. This is a prequel problem - you're seeing how the character develops to become that person. Even Elves shift slowly, though here it is accelerated to serve the story.

Pay attention to Galadriel's subtleties! She is not one-dimensional, concealing depths. The mystery of where is Celeborn (for I much desire to see him) is 100% tied to why she can't go to Valinor in the second Age.

Tolkein doesn't have a definitive canon answer for why Galadriel doesn't go. Either she isn't pardoned for her rebellion until the test of the Ring, or... she chooses to stay, rejecting the pardon. Why? Here we have the devotion to her brother, dead after a duel with a werewolf in canon. His vow is the Public Duty angle to her quest, but the personal, hidden, subtle angle this information reveals is that her husband is only presumed dead!

That is what puzzles her peers. Why not go to Valinor to be reunited with her love? The effects and cinematography show the subtle influence of the Valar, and we see her reject their offer to meet canon. Why return?

Well, Elves mate for life, indeed! That is why it feels wrong for her to go to Valinor - She doesn't know that her husband is dead! She never agreed to go because she literally can't move on - it nags at her. Who might know what Morgoth did with him? His leiutenant, the person she's hunting - Sauron. Celeborn is as dead as Isildur.

Love is the only thing that could bring an elf to abandon the sea and return to Middle Earth. This enhances and explains canon, creating a solution the Author couldn't resolve and kept trying to, up to his death. It slots in perfectly with what is known, and the themes in canon; that love can be magic strong enough to wrestle a simaril from the hand of the enemy itself.

The hole in this, canonically, is Celebrían, their daughter who marries Elrond... Early in the third age. Does that break canon? Yes, but it doesn't break continuity. Whether she is yet to be born, or we have yet to see her, Celebrían's absence does change the shape of the Second Age.

Lastly, enough of the willful ignorance about what this show is about. They are absolutely trying to tell a complete story, across five seasons.

A story that is famously unadaptable, according to the author. Recognize that there is no way to plot a show that starts here, and ends with the Last Alliance of Men and Elves. To follow the timeline properly. ~3,000 years in 60 episodes would be incomprehensible as a narrative. Only the Elves stay alive, but the Men die in two episodes, Halflings three, Dwarves in four, and Numenorians in 8. Killing their darlings would not improve the show. Durin IV and VI being combined into one character doesn't destroy their book versions. It makes the narrative comprehensible to serve the story being told.

Could the pacing be better? Maybe, though that seems deliberate to keep the suspense of who is Sauron disguised as. Are there aspects that needed better execution? That's always the case in art. Is it absolutely worth it for the hauntingly beautiful plea Disa sang directly to the mountain? It would have moved Illuvatar's heart.

The show is not a complete work. This is the first act of five, and it's all setup. The peices are falling into place, but to give up now, barely into the journey? That speaks of a desire to find a reason to stop.

Not everyone has the fortitude to kill their expectations when what you receive isn't what you thought it would be. You don't have to keep watching if you decide not to, either. Please though, do not impose your decision not to watch on others.

Revising, I'm half certain this Denethor level of despair is intended to provoke Tolkein fans like this. To jump universes, it can fun to clutch your pearls and bemoan that this slave boy could never become Darth Vader and the Phantom Menace destroys the Dark Lord of the Sith's Character. Give it time.

After all, this situation is not Disney's Lucasfilm and Amazon does not own the Tolkein estate. Armed with knowledge of canon, you have a map of where they are going in continuity.

Sure, the map doesn't match the territory, and there are things unexpected but there. Yet it's still the road, and still going forever, on and on.
 
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Oct 12, 2022
2
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10
I feel like this post is definitely written too soon. YOU have no idea how celeborn is gonna reveal himself, for all we know she probably only thinks hes dead but hes probably around. You havent listed any actual examples of the timeline not being accurate. Everything will be revealed in time and to say youre giving up on a series trying to adapt the simarillion only 7 episodes in tells me you arent a true middle earth fan. Just a contrarian trying to garner views with a hitpiece to an unfinished show lol
This.
 
Oct 12, 2022
2
0
10
Yeah I was surprised Tom's guide had a review, enough to click. Holy cow does this failure at critique show a clear lack of respect for Tolkien and a lack of knowledge of his work. The show is not "throwing out" Tolkein Canon. Let's pretend this toxicity is a good faith critique.

The master linguist was inspired by the shifts in histories, myths and language - which was his dayjob. To a degree that if you don't know Thorongil's identity you miss out completely on a puzzle in the Appendices for ROTK; lovely Easter Eggs abound. To illustrate, if you know Varda is Elbereth, FOTR has deeper meaning - intentionally! Primary documents have these kinds of mysteries, and he was well aware that translators massage meaning to serve the story.

Which means, The Red Book of West March, is intentionally, not entirely accurate - it's a recollection. The Hobbit's revision was a plot point, and these are the in-canon justifications!

IRL, though, there's another aspect that fans of the lore know - the only definitive works are the Hobbit and the LOTR! There's a reason people interested in the deep lore are encouraged to start with unfinished tales - everything published after his death was in the drafting stages. Christopher Tolkein did his best by his father's revisions. Professor Tolkein's letters, drafts, and notes are an indication of his thought process. He admits he doesn't know everything about the blue wizards in 211, but then later he notes that their names are Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo. There is much more than has been released by the Tolkein estate as published works.

As we famously know with Galadrial and Celeborn, Tolkein changed his mind! He was still revising and drafting before he died. Things such as as when the Wizards Arrive being either 3A 1000 in Unfinished Tales, or now 2A 1600 in People's of Middle Earth, indicate how fluid the canon is. Tolkein's work is not ex cathedra. It's incomplete, there are gaps and unanswered mysteries. Like the primary documents it emulates, the source material contains conjecture, partial truths, and what we have was meant to be in service to the epic story that is LOTR.

This brings me to canon, which is not being destroyed, and continuity. Let move from the Author to the Showrunners maligned here.

Reread that Hollywood Reporter article again. Amazon underbid Netflix, and the Tolkein Estate went with their pitch. Why? Amazon promised not an adaptation, but a relationship. That relationship is why even though they are not explicitly adapting the Simarillion canon - it's still keeping in continuity with it.

The holders of those rights is still the Tolkein Estate and they will determine if Amazon breaks their deal. According to Tom Shippey, The estate refused to let them set the show at any other point than the second Age, and insisted the main shape of the plot is not altered. Which begs the question... How much of this is the Showrunners?

For all we know, there is a half finished epic poem written in Quenya and Common. In it, Glofindel and Durin's Bane fight on top of Caradhras, as a possible, but eventually abandoned, origin for Mithril. The Showrunners received access we can only imagine, and that's the kind of cool thing you find in archives. I trust the Tolkein Estate to weild their relationship, as they did with New Line and Warner Bros.

Though it's not an adaptation of the Akallabeth, that doesn't mean they can't show the fall of Numenor. There is absolutely no reason the estate wouldn't let an event that happens in the second Age be present in the show. Of course, we're going to see the professor's Atlantis analog sink, what's interesting is how it happens!

Here's where this review sent me on this path though - the sheer lack of depth perception on Galadriel's character. She is not 7,188 years old yet! Not could she be a powerful elven ruler commanding a ring of power? Unforged, the rings are. Lórien is ruled by Amdír. This is a prequel problem - you're seeing how the character develops to become that person. Even Elves shift slowly, though here it is accelerated to serve the story.

Pay attention to Galadriel's subtleties! She is not one-dimensional, concealing depths. The mystery of where is Celeborn (for I much desire to see him) is 100% tied to why she can't go to Valinor in the second Age.

Tolkein doesn't have a definitive canon answer for why Galadriel doesn't go. Either she isn't pardoned for her rebellion until the test of the Ring, or... she chooses to stay, rejecting the pardon. Why? Here we have the devotion to her brother, dead after a duel with a werewolf in canon. His vow is the Public Duty angle to her quest, but the personal, hidden, subtle angle this information reveals is that her husband is only presumed dead!

That is what puzzles her peers. Why not go to Valinor to be reunited with her love? The effects and cinematography show the subtle influence of the Valar, and we see her reject their offer to meet canon. Why return?

Well, Elves mate for life, indeed! That is why it feels wrong for her to go to Valinor - She doesn't know that her husband is dead! She never agreed to go because she literally can't move on - it nags at her. Who might know what Morgoth did with him? His leiutenant, the person she's hunting - Sauron. Celeborn is as dead as Isildur.

Love is the only thing that could bring an elf to abandon the sea and return to Middle Earth. This enhances and explains canon, creating a solution the Author couldn't resolve and kept trying to, up to his death. It slots in perfectly with what is known, and the themes in canon; that love can be magic strong enough to wrestle a simaril from the hand of the enemy itself.

The hole in this, canonically, is Celebrían, their daughter who marries Elrond... Early in the third age. Does that break canon? Yes, but it doesn't break continuity. Whether she is yet to be born, or we have yet to see her, Celebrían's absence does change the shape of the Second Age.

Lastly, enough of the willful ignorance about what this show is about. They are absolutely trying to tell a complete story, across five seasons.

A story that is famously unadaptable, according to the author. Recognize that there is no way to plot a show that starts here, and ends with the Last Alliance of Men and Elves. To follow the timeline properly. ~3,000 years in 60 episodes would be incomprehensible as a narrative. Only the Elves stay alive, but the Men die in two episodes, Halflings three, Dwarves in four, and Numenorians in 8. Killing their darlings would not improve the show. Durin IV and VI being combined into one character doesn't destroy their book versions. It makes the narrative comprehensible to serve the story being told.

Could the pacing be better? Maybe, though that seems deliberate to keep the suspense of who is Sauron disguised as. Are there aspects that needed better execution? That's always the case in art. Is it absolutely worth it for the hauntingly beautiful plea Disa sang directly to the mountain? It would have moved Illuvatar's heart.

The show is not a complete work. This is the first act of five, and it's all setup. The peices are falling into place, but to give up now, barely into the journey? That speaks of a desire to find a reason to stop.

Not everyone has the fortitude to kill their expectations when what you receive isn't what you thought it would be. You don't have to keep watching if you decide not to, either. Please though, do not impose your decision not to watch on others.

Revising, I'm half certain this Denethor level of despair is intended to provoke Tolkein fans like this. To jump universes, it can fun to clutch your pearls and bemoan that this slave boy could never become Darth Vader and the Phantom Menace destroys the Dark Lord of the Sith's Character. Give it time.

After all, this situation is not Disney's Lucasfilm and Amazon does not own the Tolkein estate. Armed with knowledge of canon, you have a map of where they are going in continuity.

Sure, the map doesn't match the territory, and there are things unexpected but there. Yet it's still the road, and still going forever, on and on.
This was so well written and informed. Thank you for this. I'm so tired of people acting all elitist and bemoaning the supposed breaking of "canon".
 

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