RNC Praise

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Sidhu wrote:

> Thats real intreasting. I would imagine that the higly color'ed
> compressor you talk about, would be so, more because of cheap build
> rather than by design. I really dont know, but 'Ahuja' by any chance ?

LMAO !

I know one of the Ahujas and his company rather well. ;-)

Graham

 

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"Sidhu" <nitinsidhu@indiatimes.com> wrote in message
news:1122068175.237565.65310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

> Unless we have a wildy unpredictable source (bad
> drummer?)

It's hard to imagine a real-world source that would be so
bad as to need compression to be effectively recorded with
even just 16 bit resolution.

> i would tend to disagree, i almost never have
> any trouble tracking 24bit. But I can understand it's
> equally easy to clip the converters.

It's easy to clip mic preamps or just about anything else
electronic.

> One does need to be carefull.

Thats one reason why very few sucessful recordists are
monkeys.

 

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In article <1122084977.379621.300980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> vdubreeze@earthlink.net writes:

> Drummers with a wildly unpredictable (to the engineer, obviously not to
> the bandleader) dynamics are sometimes the most engaging part of the
> music.

The engineer shouldn't have a problem capturing what the bandleader
likes. But if the bandleader realizes, when hearing a recording, that
the drummer is a problem, something needs to be done.

> If a drummer can play from a whisper to a scream within the
> song and it works, why send him home?

No reason to, because it works. The problem is when the drummer is
playing at scream level when the rest of the band is whispering (or
some other situation) and it DOESN'T work. The problem is rarely that
the drummer plays inconsistently, when there's a problem it's usualy
that his playing isn't consistent with the dynamics or tone of the
song. Somebody needs to tell him that. It really shouldn't be the
engineer making excuses, it should be the band telling him to get with
the program or go home.


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In article <dbst7801kqt@enews2.newsguy.com> arcane@arcanemethods.com writes:

> The difference, if you have high dynamic range converters is
> simply the flexibility you have later in the game. If you
> do it in tracking you are stuck with it. If you wait you
> can play with it.

The problem with a consoleless and hardwareless control room is that
you often want to have a compressed (though not necessarily with the
final settings) version in the monitor mix when tracking. This can
help other players as well as avoid distractions. With today's setups,
it's not quite as simple to patch a compressor into the tape return
path (compressing just what you're hearing in the monitor) and just
leave it set so the dynamics variations aren't objectionable.



--
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<vdubreeze@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Mike Rivers wrote:
>> In article <1122068175.237565.65310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> nitinsidhu@indiatimes.com writes:
>>
>> > Unless we have a wildy unpredictable source (bad drummer?)
>>
>> Send the drummer home and get a replacement.
>
>Drummers with a wildly unpredictable (to the engineer, obviously not to
>the bandleader) dynamics are sometimes the most engaging part of the
>music. If a drummer can play from a whisper to a scream within the
>song and it works, why send him home? ("Elvin, sorry, just leave. I
>need to replace you with someone easier to record") Just record him so
>it records without clipping or squashing. Why get a replacement who
>plays with less dynamics? Nothing wrong with the drummer. Just
>needs to be dealt with.

I think Mike is taking about those drummers who have wildly unpredictable
dynamics that -are- unpredictable to the bandleader.

You can't do anything about the drummer who constantly breaks out into solos
at inappropriate times while the bandleader glares at him in a mix of anger
and horror, though.

Last time I saw Mose Allison playing with a local pickup band, I thought
Mose was going to walk out any moment and just leave the drummer there
alone.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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Ricky Hunt wrote:
> "Sidhu" <nitinsidhu@indiatimes.com> wrote in message
> news:1122046478.179526.161320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Since the RNC is also very transparent, i doubt one can relly use it to
>>add color.
>>
>
>
> If you want color you'll have to look elsewhere. Most times today when I
> hear people talk about compression they're talking more about the color than
> the actual volume leveling. I think that's why some are disappointed (if
> they misunderstand these things) when they hear a RNC (or more correctly
> DON'T hear a RNC). I have to look at the meters to even be sure it's working
> a lot of times.
>
>
I can dig what you're saying, but IME you can add colour if you really
want to... not that it'll do a whole pallette, but it can definitely do
"squishy" and "spanky". Not in Super Nice mode, though. That's just
"slow levelor".

Cheers,
-joe.



________________________________________

Dyslexics have more fnu.

 

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In article <F4adncpvnNlehn_fRVn-sA@comcast.com>,
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:


>
> It's easy to clip mic preamps or just about anything else
> electronic.
>
> > One does need to be carefull.
>
> Thats one reason why very few sucessful recordists are
> monkeys.

They are, unfortunately, more common than one might hope....:-{

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My real email should be pretty obvious to an actual human being.

 

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Frank Stearns wrote:

>
> I just sold my RNC. Nice GR control performance, but even looping through
> the box with *no* GR lost a lot of sparkle. Things got dull and "dark"
> sounding. (Sorry to use that word, but it's fairly accurate.) Even the
> "bypass" setting didn't seem to help.
>
> Perhaps the i/o ciruits are a bit on the cheap. Maybe the thing
> could be tweaked, but I didn't what to take the time.
>
> I did find a used DBX1066. If you don't hit it too hard it can be quite
> effective and transparent. And while there is some sonic loss just looping
> through with no GR, it's nowhere nearly as noticeable as the RNC.


Methinks you had a unit in need of repair, which is more rare among
these things than practically anything else on the planet. I can't
imagine a DBX 1066 being more transparent, or having less inline signal
loss. That's a pretty colored device.

But it's no fun getting poor sound no matter what the reason, and it's
a drag to make it right, tweaking or fixing. Glad the DBX is working
out for you.
V

 

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mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> writes:

>I am getting ready to do some post processing on a LOT of voice-only
>files. It never ceases to amaze me how transparent the RNC is in the
>Super Nice Mode for this purpose. It beats everything else I've tried by
>a LONG shot. Way to go, Mark!

I just sold my RNC. Nice GR control performance, but even looping through
the box with *no* GR lost a lot of sparkle. Things got dull and "dark"
sounding. (Sorry to use that word, but it's fairly accurate.) Even the
"bypass" setting didn't seem to help.

Perhaps the i/o ciruits are a bit on the cheap. Maybe the thing
could be tweaked, but I didn't what to take the time.

I did find a used DBX1066. If you don't hit it too hard it can be quite
effective and transparent. And while there is some sonic loss just looping
through with no GR, it's nowhere nearly as noticeable as the RNC.

As always, YMMV.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio

--
.

 

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Frank Stearns <franks.pacifier.com@pacifier.net> wrote:

>mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>I am getting ready to do some post processing on a LOT of voice-only
>>files. It never ceases to amaze me how transparent the RNC is in the
>>Super Nice Mode for this purpose. It beats everything else I've tried by
>>a LONG shot. Way to go, Mark!
>
>I just sold my RNC. Nice GR control performance, but even looping through
>the box with *no* GR lost a lot of sparkle. Things got dull and "dark"
>sounding. (Sorry to use that word, but it's fairly accurate.) Even the
>"bypass" setting didn't seem to help.
>
>Perhaps the i/o ciruits are a bit on the cheap. Maybe the thing
>could be tweaked, but I didn't what to take the time.
>
>I did find a used DBX1066. If you don't hit it too hard it can be quite
>effective and transparent. And while there is some sonic loss just looping
>through with no GR, it's nowhere nearly as noticeable as the RNC.
>
>As always, YMMV.
>
>Frank Stearns
>Mobile Audio

Interesting. When I measured the RNC a few years ago, it was flat, out
to around 200kHz - and that was with 6dB of gain reduction.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http/www.ITRstudio.com/

 

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"Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
news:81u7e19907h7sh52m8umitoimulth8p8qr@4ax.com...
> Frank Stearns <franks.pacifier.com@pacifier.net> wrote:
>
> >mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> writes:
> >
> >>I am getting ready to do some post processing on a LOT of voice-only
> >>files. It never ceases to amaze me how transparent the RNC is in the
> >>Super Nice Mode for this purpose. It beats everything else I've tried by
> >>a LONG shot. Way to go, Mark!
> >
> >I just sold my RNC. Nice GR control performance, but even looping through
> >the box with *no* GR lost a lot of sparkle. Things got dull and "dark"
> >sounding. (Sorry to use that word, but it's fairly accurate.) Even the
> >"bypass" setting didn't seem to help.
> >
> >Perhaps the i/o ciruits are a bit on the cheap. Maybe the thing
> >could be tweaked, but I didn't what to take the time.
> >
> >I did find a used DBX1066. If you don't hit it too hard it can be quite
> >effective and transparent. And while there is some sonic loss just
looping
> >through with no GR, it's nowhere nearly as noticeable as the RNC.
> >
> >As always, YMMV.
> >
> >Frank Stearns
> >Mobile Audio
>
> Interesting. When I measured the RNC a few years ago, it was flat, out
> to around 200kHz - and that was with 6dB of gain reduction.
>
> Harvey Gerst
> Indian Trail Recording Studio
> http/www.ITRstudio.com/


Strange indeed. Could it have been an interfacing problem, by any chance?

Predrag

 

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"Predrag Trpkov" <predrag.trpkovNeSpamu@ri.htnet.hr> laid this on me:
> "Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
> news:81u7e19907h7sh52m8umitoimulth8p8qr@4ax.com...
>> Frank Stearns <franks.pacifier.com@pacifier.net> wrote:
>>
>> >mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> writes:
>> >
>> >>I am getting ready to do some post processing on a LOT of voice-only
>> >>files. It never ceases to amaze me how transparent the RNC is in the
>> >>Super Nice Mode for this purpose. It beats everything else I've
>> >>tried by a LONG shot. Way to go, Mark!
>> >
>> >I just sold my RNC. Nice GR control performance, but even looping
>> >through the box with *no* GR lost a lot of sparkle. Things got dull
>> >and "dark" sounding. (Sorry to use that word, but it's fairly
>> >accurate.) Even the "bypass" setting didn't seem to help.
>> >
>> >Perhaps the i/o ciruits are a bit on the cheap. Maybe the thing
>> >could be tweaked, but I didn't what to take the time.
>> >
>> >I did find a used DBX1066. If you don't hit it too hard it can be
>> >quite effective and transparent. And while there is some sonic loss
>> >just looping through with no GR, it's nowhere nearly as noticeable as
>> >the RNC.
>> >
>> >As always, YMMV.
>> >
>> >Frank Stearns
>> >Mobile Audio
>>
>> Interesting. When I measured the RNC a few years ago, it was flat,
>> out to around 200kHz - and that was with 6dB of gain reduction.
>>
>> Harvey Gerst
>> Indian Trail Recording Studio http/www.ITRstudio.com/
>
>
> Strange indeed. Could it have been an interfacing problem, by any
> chance?
>
> Predrag

I like my RNC, but I notice a similar thing with mine. I wouldn't say
it's as dramatic as what he is reporting . With my setup, it's more of a
subtle loss of sparkle, but not all the way to dull. I should note, I use it
through an RNP mostly, he used a GR, that could (likely does) contribute to
the difference.
Maybe it is an interfacing problem, if nobody else notices it but me
and him.
In which case...what sort of interfacing problem could cause this?

Sean
--
There is an old saying that if a million monkeys
typed on a million keyboards for a million years,
eventually all the works of Shakespeare would be produced.
Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

seans_at_efn.org
http/www.efn.org/~seans

 

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Sean S <see@sigfor.email> writes:

- snip -

> I like my RNC, but I notice a similar thing with mine. I wouldn't say
>it's as dramatic as what he is reporting . With my setup, it's more of a
>subtle loss of sparkle, but not all the way to dull. I should note, I use it
>through an RNP mostly, he used a GR, that could (likely does) contribute to
>the difference.

Oops, sorry; when I used the shorthand "GR" I meant "gain reduction" and
not Great River. (Good preamps, though.) I am running 10 channels of Grace
Designs preamps so yes I have gotten used to catching a lot of nuance from
acoustic/classical music sources.

Plus, with the help of many here I've had this ongoing and for the most
part successful project in rebuilding/enhancing my Soundcraft Delta
console to preserve those subtle sonic aspects. I also have pretty good
monitoring (soffit-mounted Tannoy SGM10Bs with Mastering Lab crossovers
in a good room).

So when something affects the sound, I'm likely to notice.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--
.

 

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In article <Xns969DB53A8CAECseanhoneybuckit@216.196.97.131> see@sigfor.email writes:

> I like my RNC, but I notice a similar thing with mine. I wouldn't say
> it's as dramatic as what he is reporting . With my setup, it's more of a
> subtle loss of sparkle, but not all the way to dull.

Any compressor (without additional compensation) will change the shape
of the attack of the envelope of the signal it's processing. This will
affect the "brightness" of the audio. Sometimes we intentionally do
this intentionally, other times we want to minimize it. For what
appears (from the front panel knobs) to be the same settings, some
compressors just sound different. That's why we like to have so many
of them.

One man's "subtle loss of sparkle" is another many's "dull" so you
have to take these one word reviews for what they are.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Sidhu]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

any idea about the 'made in india' compressor we were talking about ?
Scott ?

Sidhu






Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Sidhu <nitinsidhu@indiatimes.com> wrote:
> >
> >Ofcource, i use compressors a lot. My question was how much of a
> >difference will compressing the source during tracking make over using
> >compression in post ? Unless i mildly compress both during tracking and
> >in post. Still not convinced this would make a lootta difference. But i
> >really have not ever done that.
>
> In the modern digital world, it won't make any difference if you compress
> during tracking or in post.
>
> But you'll find the RNC will beat most other compressors hands down in
> either application, for clean compression.
>
> >> There used to be an interesting and highly-colored limiter that was
> >> made in India for the local broadcast market. I know All-India-Radio
> >> used the things for transmitter protection.... there have to be a bunch
> >> of them out there. I'll think of the name in a bit...
> >
> >Thats real intreasting. I would imagine that the higly color'ed
> >compressor you talk about, would be so, more because of cheap build
> >rather than by design. I really dont know, but 'Ahuja' by any chance ?
>
> No, it was named after a location.... I will think of it.
>
> There also was a Russian compressor called the "Audion" which was very
> popular in broadcast applications in Asia in the late eighties. They
> were full of really bad op-amps and kind of noisy, but the were still
> fun compressors. I have one and I still use it now and then.
>
> >AIR updated their studios a while ago, what they forgot to do was
> >update their techies. They have DAT machines and CD players now, but
> >try sending them anything other that 1/4 inch. They reject it! :~\
>
> I hear rumors that JAI is not manufacturing tape right now, and the
> guys trying to restart Zonal are horribly backordered because they
> are getting enormous orders from AIR and from the South African SABC.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."