Samsung "Zoom1" aspect ratio incorrect... any possible fix?

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I recently bought a Samsung HDTV... to be precise, a TX-P2670WH, which
is an old-fashioned CRT of 26 inches. I got a CRT because I didn't
need big screen size and wouldn't settle for a smeary LCD picture, and
it was under $700.

The good news about this particular TV is that Samsung seems to be
much better than most other makers and interpolating up standard-def
material without big visible artefacts. The bad news, besides the
numerous little dumb things in the user interface, is that the "Zoom1"
magnification feature has its aspect ratio set incorrectly, so
everything comes out slightly too wide. This viewing mode is very
necessary when viewing source material that does letterboxing within a
4:3 frame -- otherwise, you get a picture that has both a black
letterbox border on the top and bottom, and a gray pillarbox border on
the left and right... a rather awful way to watch anything,
particularly since the gray is brighter than most movie content.

There's also a "Zoom2" setting that differs from Zoom1 in being much
more stretched vertically. I can't imagine what purpose it was
intended for.

My question is, has anyone got a way to tweak how a Samsung TV
displays zoomed images? Is there any possible thing I can do about
this? I seem to recall catching some phrase somewhere in the TV's
pathetic documentation about adjusting the vertical position, if not
the aspect ratio... but maybe I misread something, because I can't
find it again... Has anyone come up with any sort of fix?

From what I hear, Samsung's tech support can be treated as effectively
nonexistent.

Is "Zoom1" and "Zoom2" a Samsung thing, or are they standard for other
TV lines? I haven't looked into other TV brands enough to know.

 

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Paul Kienitz (paul-NOZPAM@paulkienitz.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> There's also a "Zoom2" setting that differs from Zoom1 in being much
> more stretched vertically. I can't imagine what purpose it was
> intended for.

It's for silly people who absolutely can't stand black bars, which you get
*some* of on a 2.35:1 movie even using a "normal" zoom.

> My question is, has anyone got a way to tweak how a Samsung TV
> displays zoomed images? Is there any possible thing I can do about
> this?

I have a very similar problem with my RCA HDTV, and the answer I have found
is "no, there is nothing that can be done without upsetting all the other
geometry". I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case with your Samsung.
Sorry.

I now use an external scaler to do this sort of zoom, since I only need to
do it on external inputs (my RCA actually zooms correctly on signals from
its internal ATSC and DirecTV tuners).

--
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On 6 Nov 2004 09:42:13 -0800, Paul Kienitz <paul-NOZPAM@paulkienitz.net> wrote:
> I recently bought a Samsung HDTV... to be precise, a TX-P2670WH, which
> is an old-fashioned CRT of 26 inches. I got a CRT because I didn't
> need big screen size and wouldn't settle for a smeary LCD picture, and
> it was under $700.
>
> The good news about this particular TV is that Samsung seems to be
> much better than most other makers and interpolating up standard-def
> material without big visible artefacts. The bad news, besides the
> numerous little dumb things in the user interface, is that the "Zoom1"
> magnification feature has its aspect ratio set incorrectly, so
> everything comes out slightly too wide. This viewing mode is very
> necessary when viewing source material that does letterboxing within a
> 4:3 frame -- otherwise, you get a picture that has both a black
> letterbox border on the top and bottom, and a gray pillarbox border on
> the left and right... a rather awful way to watch anything,
> particularly since the gray is brighter than most movie content.
>
> There's also a "Zoom2" setting that differs from Zoom1 in being much
> more stretched vertically. I can't imagine what purpose it was
> intended for.

Why would you expect artifacts from SD material? Artifacts should only
appear if the digital signal is weak (regardless of SD or HD content), or
the network is having problems.

Although, image sizing has different names, I have the similar problems
when my Samsung digital set top box (SIR-T351) is set for my 4:3 TV.
Although, it is hard to believe that a built-in tuner is not properly
configured for your screen.

Letterbox - 16:9 width of screen with gray bars top/bottom. 16:9
broadcasts of 4:3 content with broadcast pillar box, are proper aspect
ratio, but the 4:3 content is unecessarily small.

Full - SD and HD 4:3 broadcasts are full size and proper aspect
ratio. 16:9 are full screen, vertially stretched. 16:9 broadcasts of 4:3
content are vertically stretched with broadcast pillar box.

Zoom - Full screen, but all content is horizontally stretched (too fat).

There is no setting to display the 4:3 part of a "16:9 broadcast of 4:3
content" full screen in proper aspect ratio. I would expect Zoom to do
that, but even 16:9 content is horizontally stretched.

It is a bit better with DVI output to my Samsung 192MP HDTV ready flat
panel monitor (16:9 broadcasts of 4:3 content have narrower pillars full
screen), but still not perfect.

 

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Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.1bf6e4dd9afe87449898de@news.nabs.net>...

> > There's also a "Zoom2" setting that differs from Zoom1 in being much
> > more stretched vertically. I can't imagine what purpose it was
> > intended for.
>
> It's for silly people who absolutely can't stand black bars, which you get
> *some* of on a 2.35:1 movie even using a "normal" zoom.

Okay... but why distort the aspect that much? You'd think if someone
really wanted to get rid of the top and bottom black bars, they'd want
the horizontal stretched to the same scale.

I mean, that's even more goofy than samsung's "panorama" mode which
presents the middle of the 4:3 picture normally and then horizontally
magnifies the edges, so that things get progressively distorted as you
get away from the middle part of the screen.

> I now use an external scaler to do this sort of zoom, since I only need to
> do it on external inputs (my RCA actually zooms correctly on signals from
> its internal ATSC and DirecTV tuners).

External scaler. Hmmmm. Are those expensive?


Another thing I wish I could adjust: pincusioning of vertical lines.
It's not bad, but still.

 

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efflandt@xnet.com (David Efflandt) wrote in message news:<slrncot89t.ppj.efflandt@typhoon.xnet.com>...
> On 6 Nov 2004 09:42:13 -0800, Paul Kienitz <paul-NOZPAM@paulkienitz.net> wrote:

> > The good news about this particular TV is that Samsung seems to be
> > much better than most other makers and interpolating up standard-def
> > material without big visible artefacts.

> Why would you expect artifacts from SD material? Artifacts should only
> appear if the digital signal is weak (regardless of SD or HD content), or
> the network is having problems.

I don't EXPECT artefacts, nevertheless, when most HDTVs show SD
content, there they are. Blurry smudges around color edges are what's
usually most noticeable. With many brands it's pretty noticeable even
with 480p, let alone ntsc. But 480p looks great on this guy.

> it is hard to believe that a built-in tuner is not properly
> configured for your screen.

Yes, it is hard to believe. The penalty of a downmarket brand, I
guess.

From what you say, your system's definition of "zoom" is different
from mine's. In mine it magnifies both axes, just not quite by the
same amount.


Gah, the Fellowship of the Ring was on, and I can only get WB in
analog.

That's one movie I'm not buying a DVD of... I'm waiting for a blu-ray
edition!

 

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Paul Kienitz (paul-NOZPAM@paulkienitz.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Okay... but why distort the aspect that much? You'd think if someone
> really wanted to get rid of the top and bottom black bars, they'd want
> the horizontal stretched to the same scale.

I did say it was for "silly people", didn't I? ;->

> > I now use an external scaler to do this sort of zoom, since I only need to
> > do it on external inputs (my RCA actually zooms correctly on signals from
> > its internal ATSC and DirecTV tuners).
>
> External scaler. Hmmmm. Are those expensive?

It depends. I use the abilities of the MIT MDP-100 MyHD PCI card. It
converts S-Video or composite to whatever output format you select (all
the standard digital TV formats plus a few common flat panel native
resolutions), plus it has accurate zoom and stretch modes. It costs less
than $300, but you do need a PC (although not much of one...a Pentium II-350
is good enough).

The added advantage is that it is a full-blown OTA tuner, and can record
both analog and digital signals to the hard drive. It's also got one of
the best hardware scalers you can buy for less than about $2000.

--
Jeff Rife |
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On 6-Nov-2004, paul-NOZPAM@paulkienitz.net (Paul Kienitz) wrote:

> Is "Zoom1" and "Zoom2" a Samsung thing, or are they standard for other
> TV lines? I haven't looked into other TV brands enough to know.

My Hitachi 51UWX20B has six "picture format aspect ratios" -- 4:3 Standard,
4:3 Expanded, 4:3 Zoom1, 4:3 Zoom2, 16:9 Standard and 16:9 Zoom.

All six are available with NTSC input and 480i/480p input but only two with
720p/1080i input: 16:9 Standard and 16:9 Zoom.
--
John in Sun Prairie