Sorry, EVs — I test drove my first PHEV and it’s the perfect blend of electric and gas power

[portyman]

Pretty absurd title. PHEVs make sense if you cannot charge at home. Otherwise, the answer is EV. That's really all there is to it.

It makes more sense if you can charge at home! Charge at home which takes 2 to 4 hrs in the UK with my kia phev, that's gives 30 miles or so local miles I can travel, that would get me to work and back twice, and actually gets me to most places I go day to day. On long trips after 30 miles the petrol engine kicks in, and depending on regeneration it can go back Into all electric from time to time, it never gets to zero battery, at about 10 to 15% you revert to standard hybrid. Charging away from home is more expensive here than charging in a public charger, so just fill up quick. A lot of phevs don't fast charge anyway, so no point changing on long trip. The electric motor gives the ice engine a nice shove when accelerating too. Everything is covered by 7 year warranty so no issue with having both. Looking at services for electric cars they seem to be quite high, phev is not to different to pure ice. Most places I visit don't have chargers so phev works well, can sometimes grab a free 30 miles charge at the cottage has a charger, but they are not guaranteed to work

 

[portyman]

I'm test driving the EV9 next. But as I've said, PHEVs is a good starting point to convince people about the potential benefits of EVs.

How is it it is best of both worlds? As an engineer I'm quite surprised by this statement. You have double of complexity in a hybrid compare to ICE or pure EV. You can't drive far on pure EV. Have to plug every day. You still have oil changes and spark plugs replacement which would cost a lot for a Lexus and you have a high voltage battery and a fuel tank that equals fire risk. No thanks.

Another statement that puzzles me that PHEVs are for people who don't drive far. Well if you don't drive far get a cheap EV with a moderate range. Still better than charging every day. No need to carry a fuel tank and the rest of ICE parts with you.

Just try an EV9 for a week if you fancy a 7 seater and you'll forget about PHEVs. It would drive far enough and charge fast and don't have to plug every day if you don't drive a lot daily. There are so many EVs these days for a price of PHEVs. Just doesn't make sense to me tbh

I was looking at replacing my car and was not looking specifically for a phev, but the car In the garage just happened to be one. I did think added complexity, so did not want one, but the car comes with a 7 year warranty so any issues will be sorted by kia. It's been great, the price of ev ser ices here is actually quite high considering there is no filters or oil to change, my phev is about the same as a pure ice car. It gets around 50 to 60mpg with battery ran out, actualy it never goes below 10% where it reverts to hybrid, but if you go down down steep hills it can charge quite a bit and goes back to full electric. It nice if I have to wait in a car park with dog while Mrs goes into a store as the air con works the electric battery, it will run for hours in my experience. If you live were it is cold all year around then in mine the ice engine ticks over to provide heat for cabin, it also charges the battery, its not on for long then auto turns off. I've been on a lot of holidays in uk, and its rare to find any charger that is in a place you would visit, fast chargers are rare and charging in a rental cottages is rare too. I think phevs kind of gives you best of both, cheap local journeys charging at home, longer trips just fill up with fuel. Only disadvantage is the batteries take away some storage space, but they tend not be too big , the extra weight is offset by the fuel tank being a bit smaller, but 500 miles is easily achieved.

 

[gmk2311]

Thanks Alexk12 for giving us, relatively scarce (not), apartment dwellers a nod. For some reason I was thinking that the hybrid/phev could charge the battery as I drive using the motor/alternator. I didn't see any mention of that in the article. That type of situation would be more attractive to us lowly apt. dwellers.

 

[bro what]

I wanna say a few things. I made this account purely because I could not believe any of what I read.

First, you were impressed by the lightning? The pickup truck that can't actually be used as a pick up truck? The one that can't actually tow? Or be used to go to job sites unless there's a charger near by? That's not a good EV or even good truck? That lightning?

Immediately, right there any opinion you had on vehicles or EVs became a joke.

But then, you went on to defend the Lexus 10-12 HOUR recharge from 0 as a good thing, or, not even a negative?

I... I'm at a loss for words here.

"Here's an SUV, with unimpressive mileage, unimpressive range and a glacially slow recharge rate to go 30 miles (if you're lucky). Oh and It's $80,000."

The 2004 Lexus 330 had an MPG of 20 (17/24). So excuse me if I'm not blown away by 20/29 from a much newer vehicle that's supposed to be "fuel efficient" and an ev lmao.

 

[dougpeng]

The best way to describe a PHEV is "electricity for your daily commute and gasoline for your long weekend getaways". Once you let that sink in, you'll realize it is the best of both worlds.

 

[martalli]

PHEVs were a great idea when public chargers were rare, but now you have an electric car dragging a gas engine, or you have a gas engine dragging around an overly large battery for a hybrid's needs. Plus, you're increasing the risk of a vehicle fire quite a bit by putting a gas engine in an otherwise fine EV. Since few PHEVs really get charged overnight, you're basically just dragging around an EV battery so that you could score an EV tax credit, while the government spent money on a battery vehicle that will just be driving around as a gas vehicle pretty close to 100% of the time.

 

[dreeemer]

The best way to describe a PHEV is "electricity for your daily commute and gasoline for your long weekend getaways". Once you let that sink in, you'll realize it is the best of both worlds.

Once u consider all the maintenance required (EVs have none), belts, pulleys wiring that fails, transmission replacement, etc you'll find it's the WORSE of both worlds.
EVs are made simple from the ground up. So there's more storage. More power.
U can't take a phev to a normal mechanic. They require specialists, because of how the ev part works with the ice part.
EVs go 4-500,000 miles on stock parts- even the brakes. Ice may go 100k if ur lucky.
Phevs are even worse long term

 

[dreeemer]

I own a '23 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. I used to own a '21 Nissan Leaf. For all the EV fanboys, I won't live my life around charging stations or delaying a trip because I only charge 80% to keep my battery healthy and then have to wait longer to get it to 100%.

PHEV's have their place and they do combine the best of both worlds. BEV for short commutes and hybrid for longer ones. I end to end charge, meaning I charge at home and at work. I've gone almost a month without using a drop of gas. I routinely get over 600 miles from my 17 gallon tank (actually more because I don't ever let it run that low). And, all this from a vehicle that is not known for its efficiency, if a Jeep could ever be called efficient to begin with...

I often see a line of cars waiting at the supercharger station near the mall and I laugh at how ridiculous it is that they have to waste their night waiting to recharge. When EV fanboys say that they eat or do other errands while charging, that doesn't include the wait time to just get connected to a charger.

Sorry, my time is too valuable to sit around and wait for a charger or plan a trip around various charging stations. I camp and go off grid and also drive to Mexico. For me, a BEV doesn't make sense.

As long as I have access to a 110/120V outlet, I can charge while I sleep and don't have to worry about where the next supercharger is. In fact, there's a campground in Baja, MX that has 120V outlets near the tent camp sites and I charge while we're camping. My 24 mile range is good enough to get me to the beach and back with no gas and the outlets keep my topped off.

While PHEV's aren't the answer, they sure bridge the gap.

This is the comment that makes the LEAST sense to me. I've driven cross country in an EV twice last October in a Volvo C40 recharge. 2700 miles each way. The only lines I had to wait in were in Vegas. Even in LA, I had no issues. And that was on the worse possible charge systems.
Since then, I've done MANY trips in my Tesla model S. It's the best charging system on the planet. Even in crowded downtown Miami, no issues waiting to charge.
U say ur time is too precious to charge- so why are you taking road trips? Isn't flying faster AND cheaper?
U do road trips to EXPERIENCE THE WORLD. U naturally do it on an EV trip. U plug in, shop, take pics, collect souvenirs, then hop in, and go ur merry way.
U don't like worrying about charge locations while camping, how's that an issue if you use a solar panel charger mounted to ur EV roof? U get free power where there's sun. What if that PHEV drops a transmission while riding off-road, or a drive belt snaps (EVs have none)? U gonna have a specialist flown in to repair it(no regular mechanic will work on phevs)? It's lugging around all that ice weight, while the tiny battery is struggling. EVs have trunks all over the place. No transmission means a flat floor-more room inside.
I have a level 1 charger as well, ands can plug my Tesla into any 3 prong outlet. And since I don't stress my batteries daily by using it 100% to 0, they'll last 500,000 miles. Brakes last forever on EVs as well. How much of ur precious time is spent getting $100 oil changes every few months? Going to emissions stations? Ever have major transmission work? It ain't cheap.
Phevs only are only a headache. Ur gas money saved is spent elsewhere on the car, where an EV pays for itself(especially if you have lifetime fee supercharging like I do).

 

[BeachNJeep]

It is, indeed the best of both worlds. One poster said that you have to go to a special mechanic for the PHEV. Isn't that the case with an EV? For routine ICE maintenance, any shade tree mechanic can work on the engine (change oil, spark plugs, coolant, etc.). Only if the electric motor/battery pack need servicing do you require a specialized mechanic.

Also, the brakes on a PHEV last longer than traditional ICE due to the regen braking like on BEV's.

And no one is talking about how EV's just eat tires at a rate almost twice as ICE. My friend who is a big Tesla fan boy turned in his Model 3 at the end of his lease and Tesla only wanted Tesla specific tires and the rims that had curb rash had to be replaced with Tesla specific rims. All in, just to return his car was over $4k. How's that for maintenance?!

As for convenience, the PHEV wins hands down. I don't have to "plan" my drive around "going to the bathroom and eating." What a load of rationalization to justify the biggest weakness with EV's (at least right now) and that's the amount of time to charge.

When the boys and I made plans to go to Vegas and we called my Tesla friend, he lamented that he was at 20% and had to find a charger after work, charge then head out.

By the time he was "topping off" in Barstow, we were on our 3 round, SMH.

I laugh when I see a line of Tesla's and other BEV's sitting for chargers at my local mall. When I'm done eating dinner, about an hour, the car that was last when I got there is now first or second waiting for a charger. What a load of crap. My time is worth so much more than coming up for excuses for a car that is still not fully developed.

Oh, and don't even get me started when I go camping. I can take along an extra 5 gallon jerry can or two and extend my gas only range or have a backup in case I run out of fuel. How does that BEV handle off grid charging?

Yeah, I thought so.

Also, how about running that AC or heater or driving for miles on the highway. How does that affect your so called range? Lest we forget about how Tesla overstated their range figures, too?

Both systems are flawed, but for now, for convenience, range, and low anxiety, ICE+EV is the way to go. I'm not even talking about towing yet. Many EV's decrease their range by more than half, worse for the CT...

 

[dreeemer]

I agree, that PHEV only is a bandaid for legacy automotive manufacturers to keep up their revenue streams.

Also, PHEV's are ONLY 20 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO CATCH FIRE than gas cars where electric cars are 10 TIMES less likely to catch fire than gas cars.

Unless you live in an apartment or haul something big like EVERY DAY, there is NO reason not to be driving electric unless you like to support the oil industry!

I'm in an apartment. There are plenty in my complex... I stop at the Harris Teeter around the corner, top up my Tesla for 15 -20 minutes while I shop. Or after the gym, I top off at the local wawa while eating one of their salads as I binge one of my shows. Even apartment dwellers should have no issues

 

[dreeemer]

It is, indeed the best of both worlds. One poster said that you have to go to a special mechanic for the PHEV. Isn't that the case with an EV? For routine ICE maintenance, any shade tree mechanic can work on the engine (change oil, spark plugs, coolant, etc.). Only if the electric motor/battery pack need servicing do you require a specialized mechanic.

Also, the brakes on a PHEV last longer than traditional ICE due to the regen braking like on BEV's.

And no one is talking about how EV's just eat tires at a rate almost twice as ICE. My friend who is a big Tesla fan boy turned in his Model 3 at the end of his lease and Tesla only wanted Tesla specific tires and the rims that had curb rash had to be replaced with Tesla specific rims. All in, just to return his car was over $4k. How's that for maintenance?!

As for convenience, the PHEV wins hands down. I don't have to "plan" my drive around "going to the bathroom and eating." What a load of rationalization to justify the biggest weakness with EV's (at least right now) and that's the amount of time to charge.

When the boys and I made plans to go to Vegas and we called my Tesla friend, he lamented that he was at 20% and had to find a charger after work, charge then head out.

By the time he was "topping off" in Barstow, we were on our 3 round, SMH.

I laugh when I see a line of Tesla's and other BEV's sitting for chargers at my local mall. When I'm done eating dinner, about an hour, the car that was last when I got there is now first or second waiting for a charger. What a load of crap. My time is worth so much more than coming up for excuses for a car that is still not fully developed.

Oh, and don't even get me started when I go camping. I can take along an extra 5 gallon jerry can or two and extend my gas only range or have a backup in case I run out of fuel. How does that BEV handle off grid charging?

Yeah, I thought so.

Also, how about running that AC or heater or driving for miles on the highway. How does that affect your so called range? Lest we forget about how Tesla overstated their range figures, too?

Both systems are flawed, but for now, for convenience, range, and low anxiety, ICE+EV is the way to go. I'm not even talking about towing yet. Many EV's decrease their range by more than half, worse for the CT...

As for working on an EV, I have done any work that was needed. Tesla provides manuals online. There are tons of how to stuff on YouTube.
And like I said, I've never waited to charge my Tesla. I've criss crossed the country many times now.
They may eat up tires some, but it isn't that noticeable. U don't need tesla specific tires. I got a cheap set online , they work great.
How safe is that can of gas u carry while off the grid? What happens when it runs out? Sunlight never runs out. A solar panel charger on ur roof is limitless.
Or I throw my personal charger into any 3 prong socket in existence.
My road trips are mostly summer. Full ac. Again, not an issue- there's a super charge station right off of every exit of every highway in the US!
U put ur destination. The onboard system tells you where to stop. How long to stay there to get to the next destination. How many are there now. How many are on the way there. Which (if any) is broken. What shopping and restaurants are nearby. What ice car system can come close to that?
I get 2.5 hours of driving that way on highways. Now it syncs up with my road trip rest patterns...I rest, eat, talk to other customers, get souvenirs, etc in the 35-40 minute top off of power. That's the whole point of a road trip after all.
All while not worrying about dirty fuel clogging lines. No belts to go up. No $100 oil changes. Transmission going up (I had 3 major transmission repairs on a dodge truck with 40k miles on it).
Phevs or ICE- neither even REMOTELY comes close to EVs. And my"fill ups" are completely FREE for life. Insurance is cheaper. It's unstealable. That in itself is worth charging for 35 minutes a pop!