Sorry, EVs — I test drove my first PHEV and it’s the perfect blend of electric and gas power

Apr 28, 2024
1
1
10
So I did the same comparison 4 years ago when looking for my next car:

Full EV vs PHEV. I looked at both the V60 T8 Recharge and Polestar 2.

The V60 always pulled at my heart. It’s a gorgeous wagon, just what I love. The T8, I thought, was a glorious power wagon that would be able to sate my strong desire to driver greener.

The Polestar 2 was not a wagon, but a hatch. A great looking car with more up to date infotainment setup relative to the V60. Still has the Swedish charm too. The full EV was I really wanted.

So after test driving both, which won my dollars?

The Polestar 2.

The V60, while fast, was not as fast as the 2. Sure, I could floor it and stay in EV mode. But do that a couple of times and the battery was empty. Then the raspy gas engine kicks on and I’m driving the past again. When cruising on the highway on road trips, same deal.

I thought about ownership too. With 20-40 miles range, I’d have to plug the thing in a lot if I want to avoid burning gas. Like, always. So inconvenient! And on road trips? Nope, not stopping to charge and gas. Then I thought about maintenance: still need oil changes, fluid flushes. And all those moving parts. Many many more things to break in a much more complicated package.

An all electric car is always quiet. Always. Zipping around town. 75 mph on the highway. Silence. Instant torque. Always. Charging once per week (or less) for around town driving. Great! Don’t have to squeeze into my driveway, I can park on street most of time time. Charging on road trips was not really much of a problem, just plan the trip and stop for 30 minutes to use the restroom, eat something. NBD. And no maintenance. Like, none in 3 years of ownership. Oh, I forgot the wiper blades.

That was then. Range is better on lots of EVs now. Charging infrastructure is getting way better (thanks Tesla and Biden!). And there are more options and prices are down. Gas engines represent the past. Still dirty. Pumping gas is nasty (you like breathing that stuff in?). And fuhgettabout random brands making even more complicated cars. Wait til those break.

So yeah, appreciate the thoughts. But a PHEV is not a great move. If you’re ok burning gas, just waste your money on a hybrid instead. You know you’re not going to ever plug it in anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: j_123
Apr 28, 2024
7
3
15
I agree, that PHEV only is a bandaid for legacy automotive manufacturers to keep up their revenue streams.

Also, PHEV's are ONLY 20 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO CATCH FIRE than gas cars where electric cars are 10 TIMES less likely to catch fire than gas cars.

Unless you live in an apartment or haul something big like EVERY DAY, there is NO reason not to be driving electric unless you like to support the oil industry!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: j_123
Apr 28, 2024
1
1
15
How is it it is best of both worlds? As an engineer I'm quite surprised by this statement. You have double of complexity in a hybrid compare to ICE or pure EV. You can't drive far on pure EV. Have to plug every day. You still have oil changes and spark plugs replacement which would cost a lot for a Lexus and you have a high voltage battery and a fuel tank that equals fire risk. No thanks.

Another statement that puzzles me that PHEVs are for people who don't drive far. Well if you don't drive far get a cheap EV with a moderate range. Still better than charging every day. No need to carry a fuel tank and the rest of ICE parts with you.

Just try an EV9 for a week if you fancy a 7 seater and you'll forget about PHEVs. It would drive far enough and charge fast and don't have to plug every day if you don't drive a lot daily. There are so many EVs these days for a price of PHEVs. Just doesn't make sense to me tbh
 
  • Like
Reactions: deaHelkcunK
Jan 18, 2024
3
2
15
Pretty absurd title. PHEVs make sense if you cannot charge at home. Otherwise, the answer is EV. That's really all there is to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alexk12
Apr 28, 2024
1
1
10
I don't understand why the PEHV'S are considered such an advancement in automotive engineering? To me the technology is going backwards! With all the power grid strains and whoas, coupled with higher electric bills-my electric is too expensive already.

I own a 2016 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid that requires on nothing but driving to regenerate the EV battery. I average 40.2 - 50mpg combined! With a 500+ to a tank range. It runs on a 13gal fuel tank with regular unleaded gas.
*They recently discontinued this model in 2020 and now have the Plug in Hybrid models, which get worse fuel economy (almost half). SMH... I don't have a clue why they discontinued this type of platform vs the hype on plug ins.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gmk2311

kep55

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
287
11
18,945
I recently replaced my 2014 Lincoln MKZ with a Ford Escape PHEV. Sure, I could easily get 35+ MPG at real expressway speeds, but city driving mileage was, in my opinion, poor. Downhill with a tail wind I might get 25MPG. So far, I have about 700 miles on the Escape and have only used a half tank of petrol. It's averaging 57mpg per the vehicle. Contrary to what the "experts" in the car magazines say, the interior doesn't look any cheaper than any of the Asian boxes they swoon over, and it doesn't squeak and bleak like they do. The biggest downside is the miles to empty gauge. It's about as accurate as a tobacco spitting contest in a tornado. After an overnight charge, the indicator will say I've driven up to 2 miles just driving the 1/2 mile from our house to the main drag with no stop signs in between. Three miles later, it indicates I've driven 6 miles.
As we normally keep our vehicles for 10+ years, I thought a PHEV was far more practical than an a full BEV. And since most of my trips are under 20 miles round trip, it is ideal.
 
Apr 28, 2024
2
2
15
By this logic another "perfect blend" would be a car with a horse carrier for all those times we drive into the boonies where there are no gas stations. Just push a button and the horse is lowered down to pull the car.

The average American drives 30 miles a day. Why add the complexity of dual power trains if you don't need it? Upfront cost of hybrids is less, but long-term cost for maintenance and fuel (especially if you frequently exceed the short battery range) has been shown to be more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: martalli
Apr 28, 2024
7
3
15
I don't understand why the PEHV'S are considered such an advancement in automotive engineering? To me the technology is going backwards! With all the power grid strains and whoas, coupled with higher electric bills-my electric is too expensive already.

I own a 2016 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid that requires on nothing but driving to regenerate the EV battery. I average 40.2 - 50mpg combined! With a 500+ to a tank range. It runs on a 13gal fuel tank with regular unleaded gas.
*They recently discontinued this model in 2020 and now have the Plug in Hybrid models, which get worse fuel economy (almost half). SMH... I don't have a clue why they discontinued this type of platform vs the hype on plug ins.
It is because those small batteries last about 8 years and are a fortune to replace.
 

rocwurst

Distinguished
Nov 4, 2012
2
1
18,515
I test drove the Lexus TX550H+ to see what advantages this luxury hybrid has over standard gas-powered vehicles and all-electric ones. Here's why it's the type of vehicle most people should look for with their next purchase.

Sorry, EVs — I test drove my first PHEV and it’s the perfect blend of electric and gas power : Read more
Toyota is desperate to convince people that their anti-EV crusade makes sense, but it doesn’t.

The average distance driven per day in the USA is 32.7 miles meaning that with only 33 miles of battery-only range (in ideal conditions with no passengers etc), the majority of TX550H owners will end up firing up the old fossil engine every drive even if they charge every night.

In contrast, a Battery EV with several hundred miles of range only needs to be charged once a week on the weekend using power free from the sun via rooftop panels.

In addition to needing far more expensive servicing and maintenance to look after dual drive trains, hybrids also catch fire 137x more often than EVs and with their tiny batteries being stressed with full cycles every day, the batteries last only a fraction as long as a large EV battery which typically sees a full cycle only every week..
 
  • Like
Reactions: martalli
Apr 28, 2024
7
3
15
Please don't spread misinformation. EV batteries are expected to last 10 to 15 years, the small batteries in PHEVs aren't all that expensive, and at the current rate of EV battery cost decline, a replacement battery will cost much less than today. (https://www.google.com/search?q=ev+battery+lifetime)
Oh well maybe you should look up the Hyundai owner in Vegas that was quoted $15,000 for his out of warranty phev battery.

Not to mention the multiple reports of full electric Ioniq owners quoted over $50,000.00 for a replacement out of warranty battery that the manufacturer says, yeah, that is the price.
 
Apr 29, 2024
2
0
10
Problem is Phevs like the RAV4 prime are $45k - $55k, more then some EVs. It's doubtful you will save $12k - $20k back in lower gas use even if you drove in EV mode 80% of the time for 5 years vs the much cheaper RAV4 hybrid.

Just go EV or gas/hybrid, doing both on the same car is overly expensive and phevs have more frequent repairs then either gas or EV. We had a Phev, didn't even keep it for a year then traded it in on an Ioniq 5 full EV.
 
Apr 29, 2024
2
0
10
Oh well maybe you should look up the Hyundai owner in Vegas that was quoted $15,000 for his out of warranty phev battery.

Not to mention the multiple reports of full electric Ioniq owners quoted over $50,000.00 for a replacement out of warranty battery that the manufacturer says, yeah, that is the price.
Those stores aren't really right. Dealer in Canada didn't know how to fix or diagnose his Ioniq 5 so they gave him the worst case price. Insurance covered it and he didn't loose any money.
 
Apr 29, 2024
1
0
10
I own a '23 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. I used to own a '21 Nissan Leaf. For all the EV fanboys, I won't live my life around charging stations or delaying a trip because I only charge 80% to keep my battery healthy and then have to wait longer to get it to 100%.

PHEV's have their place and they do combine the best of both worlds. BEV for short commutes and hybrid for longer ones. I end to end charge, meaning I charge at home and at work. I've gone almost a month without using a drop of gas. I routinely get over 600 miles from my 17 gallon tank (actually more because I don't ever let it run that low). And, all this from a vehicle that is not known for its efficiency, if a Jeep could ever be called efficient to begin with...

I often see a line of cars waiting at the supercharger station near the mall and I laugh at how ridiculous it is that they have to waste their night waiting to recharge. When EV fanboys say that they eat or do other errands while charging, that doesn't include the wait time to just get connected to a charger.

Sorry, my time is too valuable to sit around and wait for a charger or plan a trip around various charging stations. I camp and go off grid and also drive to Mexico. For me, a BEV doesn't make sense.

As long as I have access to a 110/120V outlet, I can charge while I sleep and don't have to worry about where the next supercharger is. In fact, there's a campground in Baja, MX that has 120V outlets near the tent camp sites and I charge while we're camping. My 24 mile range is good enough to get me to the beach and back with no gas and the outlets keep my topped off.

While PHEV's aren't the answer, they sure bridge the gap.
 
Apr 7, 2024
3
4
10
How is it it is best of both worlds? As an engineer I'm quite surprised by this statement. You have double of complexity in a hybrid compare to ICE or pure EV. You can't drive far on pure EV. Have to plug every day. You still have oil changes and spark plugs replacement which would cost a lot for a Lexus and you have a high voltage battery and a fuel tank that equals fire risk. No thanks.

Another statement that puzzles me that PHEVs are for people who don't drive far. Well if you don't drive far get a cheap EV with a moderate range. Still better than charging every day. No need to carry a fuel tank and the rest of ICE parts with you.

Just try an EV9 for a week if you fancy a 7 seater and you'll forget about PHEVs. It would drive far enough and charge fast and don't have to plug every day if you don't drive a lot daily. There are so many EVs these days for a price of PHEVs. Just doesn't make sense to me tbh
I agree. How can something with two propulsion systems be a good long-term solution. The reliability issues alone would steer me to either an EV or ICE vehicle, but not something with both. The best of both worlds soon becomes the worst of both worlds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: martalli

john_velasco

Great
Feb 29, 2024
29
4
85
So I did the same comparison 4 years ago when looking for my next car:

Full EV vs PHEV. I looked at both the V60 T8 Recharge and Polestar 2.

The V60 always pulled at my heart. It’s a gorgeous wagon, just what I love. The T8, I thought, was a glorious power wagon that would be able to sate my strong desire to driver greener.

The Polestar 2 was not a wagon, but a hatch. A great looking car with more up to date infotainment setup relative to the V60. Still has the Swedish charm too. The full EV was I really wanted.

So after test driving both, which won my dollars?

The Polestar 2.

The V60, while fast, was not as fast as the 2. Sure, I could floor it and stay in EV mode. But do that a couple of times and the battery was empty. Then the raspy gas engine kicks on and I’m driving the past again. When cruising on the highway on road trips, same deal.

I thought about ownership too. With 20-40 miles range, I’d have to plug the thing in a lot if I want to avoid burning gas. Like, always. So inconvenient! And on road trips? Nope, not stopping to charge and gas. Then I thought about maintenance: still need oil changes, fluid flushes. And all those moving parts. Many many more things to break in a much more complicated package.

An all electric car is always quiet. Always. Zipping around town. 75 mph on the highway. Silence. Instant torque. Always. Charging once per week (or less) for around town driving. Great! Don’t have to squeeze into my driveway, I can park on street most of time time. Charging on road trips was not really much of a problem, just plan the trip and stop for 30 minutes to use the restroom, eat something. NBD. And no maintenance. Like, none in 3 years of ownership. Oh, I forgot the wiper blades.

That was then. Range is better on lots of EVs now. Charging infrastructure is getting way better (thanks Tesla and Biden!). And there are more options and prices are down. Gas engines represent the past. Still dirty. Pumping gas is nasty (you like breathing that stuff in?). And fuhgettabout random brands making even more complicated cars. Wait til those break.

So yeah, appreciate the thoughts. But a PHEV is not a great move. If you’re ok burning gas, just waste your money on a hybrid instead. You know you’re not going to ever plug it in anyway.
I'm 100% all for EVs and all your points validate the benefits of EV. Not only do I want to save my monthly expenditures, but I am also cognizant about minimizing my carbon footprint. I just think that PHEVs is the prefect medium (right now), to get people convinced about the potential of EVs.
 

john_velasco

Great
Feb 29, 2024
29
4
85
I agree, that PHEV only is a bandaid for legacy automotive manufacturers to keep up their revenue streams.

Also, PHEV's are ONLY 20 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO CATCH FIRE than gas cars where electric cars are 10 TIMES less likely to catch fire than gas cars.

Unless you live in an apartment or haul something big like EVERY DAY, there is NO reason not to be driving electric unless you like to support the oil industry!
Different needs for everyone. These are just some of the solutions.
 

john_velasco

Great
Feb 29, 2024
29
4
85
How is it it is best of both worlds? As an engineer I'm quite surprised by this statement. You have double of complexity in a hybrid compare to ICE or pure EV. You can't drive far on pure EV. Have to plug every day. You still have oil changes and spark plugs replacement which would cost a lot for a Lexus and you have a high voltage battery and a fuel tank that equals fire risk. No thanks.

Another statement that puzzles me that PHEVs are for people who don't drive far. Well if you don't drive far get a cheap EV with a moderate range. Still better than charging every day. No need to carry a fuel tank and the rest of ICE parts with you.

Just try an EV9 for a week if you fancy a 7 seater and you'll forget about PHEVs. It would drive far enough and charge fast and don't have to plug every day if you don't drive a lot daily. There are so many EVs these days for a price of PHEVs. Just doesn't make sense to me tbh
I'm test driving the EV9 next. But as I've said, PHEVs is a good starting point to convince people about the potential benefits of EVs.
 

john_velasco

Great
Feb 29, 2024
29
4
85
Pretty absurd title. PHEVs make sense if you cannot charge at home. Otherwise, the answer is EV. That's really all there is

I own a '23 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. I used to own a '21 Nissan Leaf. For all the EV fanboys, I won't live my life around charging stations or delaying a trip because I only charge 80% to keep my battery healthy and then have to wait longer to get it to 100%.

PHEV's have their place and they do combine the best of both worlds. BEV for short commutes and hybrid for longer ones. I end to end charge, meaning I charge at home and at work. I've gone almost a month without using a drop of gas. I routinely get over 600 miles from my 17 gallon tank (actually more because I don't ever let it run that low). And, all this from a vehicle that is not known for its efficiency, if a Jeep could ever be called efficient to begin with...

I often see a line of cars waiting at the supercharger station near the mall and I laugh at how ridiculous it is that they have to waste their night waiting to recharge. When EV fanboys say that they eat or do other errands while charging, that doesn't include the wait time to just get connected to a charger.

Sorry, my time is too valuable to sit around and wait for a charger or plan a trip around various charging stations. I camp and go off grid and also drive to Mexico. For me, a BEV doesn't make sense.

As long as I have access to a 110/120V outlet, I can charge while I sleep and don't have to worry about where the next supercharger is. In fact, there's a campground in Baja, MX that has 120V outlets near the tent camp sites and I charge while we're camping. My 24 mile range is good enough to get me to the beach and back with no gas and the outlets keep my topped off.

While PHEV's aren't the answer, they sure bridge the gap.
Thank you!